No Dancing In Public

Keep in mind guys the Park Police are the ones who patrol the parks and memorials across DC. They're not directly part of the DC police force, but a separate entity. If you're from DC (as I am), you know their reputation: huge assholes who take their jobs way too seriously.

I worked at a boathouse that was on public park land. A park officer was blocking off the parking lot because of an event, I told him I worked there and need to run in to fill out some forms (10 min max). He said no way, go park somewhere else. I pleaded my case but he said no. He let me drive in to "turn around" so I could leave. I parked anyway and did my business. He caught me on the way out and wrote me a $100 ticket for "disobeying a traffic officer."

Even though the Park Police are huge assholes, that's not to say they're entirely wrong here. These people obviously had an agenda and expected to provoke something with their "silent dancing" in the memorial. They were doing it, and documenting it because they expected to get a rise out of someone. Was the reaction right or wrong? Who am I to say? But if a police officer says "hey cut that out, you're disrupting other peoples enjoyment of this memorial" or if they feel like you're dancing may somehow disrupt other visitors, then they have the right to ask you to do it somewhere else.

The problem with the US is a lot of people think they have the right, the ownership even, over land or space because they're deemed "public." Just because its public land, that doesn't mean you can jump in and make it your private land. And its not up to you to determine whether or not you're infringing on other persons enjoyment of that public land. If you gathered up 60-70 people and started a full fledged flag football game across a whole section of the DC Mall, I'm guessing the Park Police would roll up and ask you to take it elsewhere, secure a permit of some kind, or stop all together.

Are they infringing on your right to use that public space? Hell no. You and your group are assuming control of that space and trying to make it your own.

Anyways, I digress, but my point is, we have to recognize that rights and privileges are not one in the same, and just because something is deemed public, or built for public enjoyment, that doesn't mean you can take it over and make it private (even temporarily) for your personal enjoyment. It also doesn't mean you can ignore the police when they ask you to go somewhere else.
 


At the Lincoln memorial, in just recent times there have been tea party and gay rights rallies. King's "I Have a Dream Speech" was also from there.


I totally agree the US is turning into a police state, but just think this is a piss poor example. There's a time and place for everything, and everyone I know knows it's bad manners to bring your friends to a place like a national monument to dance a jig. Same as if I'm visiting Auschwitz, I don't expect people to be beat boxing, or if I'm walking through Angkor Wat, I don't expect kids to be running around with their pet dogs screaming at the top of their lungs.

These guys went looking for a fight with "the man", and that's exactly what they got, so I don't understand why they're so dismayed. Besides, if you think that's bad, over here if you post anything nasty regarding the one who noone dares speak about on the internet, you can get thrown in prison for 8 years due to lese majeste laws.

People are allowed to do things that are much worse than "bad manners", like not only dance outside a funeral home, but be able to scream "god killed your soldier son because he hates fags" at the people going inside.


And this :

In 2006, the last time the KKK visited Gettysburg, unofficial estimates indicate that taxpayers paid $60,000 to staff the event with law enforcement agencies.

Previously, the group visited the Gettysburg Battlefield in Sept. 2006, when it held a rally on the Cyclorama lawn. The park issued the KKK a permit, based on First Amendment rights
.

KKK plans to again rally on Battlefield - Gettysburgtimes.com: Local News



Jefferson would have been the last one to agree with a dancing ban.


"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." - Thomas Jefferson


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ3zBbq6IGA&]YouTube - ‪Dancing with Mr. Jefferson‬‏[/ame]
 
Err....

National Monument != Buddhist temple

::emp::

I don't think so. What these people did is somewhat the same as if I walked into a Buddhist temple, and started dancing a jig. Then when security politely tells me not to do that several times, I continue to do it. Then I scream bloody murder after getting forcefully removed from the temple.

These guys picked a national monument. If they just wanted to dance in public, they could have picked any street corner, and nobody would have cared in the slightest. Hell, if anything they would have made enough for a free lunch from passer-bys throwing change their way.
 
Buddhists aren't going to forcibly remove anyone. Despite that, their temple would be private property. You can kick someone out of your home without a reason and they could do the same. The Jefferson memorial is public land.


"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive." - Thomas Jefferson

ding ding ding we have a winner.

If I want to dance at a national park / monument I will, because I helped pay for it. They were way more peacful than I would ever be. If it were me in the video you'd see me either get shot, hit with a tazer, or beat half to death, because I would have been physically violent once they touched me. People need to stand up for their rights more against the corrupt police.
 
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." - Thomas Jefferson


While I agree with your post I'd like to see a source where Thomas Jefferson actually said that. I went looking for an actual quotable source (not just a website that says he said it) for that quote earlier today and spent about a half hour with no luck. Hoping you have a source cause I love the quote.
 
Keep in mind guys the Park Police are the ones who patrol the parks and memorials across DC. They're not directly part of the DC police force, but a separate entity. If you're from DC (as I am), you know their reputation: huge assholes who take their jobs way too seriously.

I worked at a boathouse that was on public park land. A park officer was blocking off the parking lot because of an event, I told him I worked there and need to run in to fill out some forms (10 min max). He said no way, go park somewhere else. I pleaded my case but he said no. He let me drive in to "turn around" so I could leave. I parked anyway and did my business. He caught me on the way out and wrote me a $100 ticket for "disobeying a traffic officer."

Even though the Park Police are huge assholes, that's not to say they're entirely wrong here. These people obviously had an agenda and expected to provoke something with their "silent dancing" in the memorial. They were doing it, and documenting it because they expected to get a rise out of someone. Was the reaction right or wrong? Who am I to say? But if a police officer says "hey cut that out, you're disrupting other peoples enjoyment of this memorial" or if they feel like you're dancing may somehow disrupt other visitors, then they have the right to ask you to do it somewhere else.

The problem with the US is a lot of people think they have the right, the ownership even, over land or space because they're deemed "public." Just because its public land, that doesn't mean you can jump in and make it your private land. And its not up to you to determine whether or not you're infringing on other persons enjoyment of that public land. If you gathered up 60-70 people and started a full fledged flag football game across a whole section of the DC Mall, I'm guessing the Park Police would roll up and ask you to take it elsewhere, secure a permit of some kind, or stop all together.

Are they infringing on your right to use that public space? Hell no. You and your group are assuming control of that space and trying to make it your own.

Anyways, I digress, but my point is, we have to recognize that rights and privileges are not one in the same, and just because something is deemed public, or built for public enjoyment, that doesn't mean you can take it over and make it private (even temporarily) for your personal enjoyment. It also doesn't mean you can ignore the police when they ask you to go somewhere else.

So I guess you'd assume it's okay if a group of 40 people came in on a tour buss with out a permit?

You can't assume to know what the people were thinking when they were dancing.
 
... People are allowed to do things that are much worse than "bad manners", like not only dance outside a funeral home, but be able to scream "god killed your soldier son because he hates fags" at the people going inside...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ3zBbq6IGA&

Good grief! Does the USA really allow that in the name of "free speech"?

In some parts of the world, there are laws against acting in a way likely to provoke reasonable people to violence.
 
Now, imagine if everything were privately owned, and property rights were defended against every act of appropriation. The "public memorial" wouldn't exist unless a private owner erected it. He could decide who is allowed to visit, and who is not. He could decide what is allowed on his property (much like you do in your home), and what is not. Other private owners could erect their own memorials, and monetize them in any way they choose, or not at all.

Thats part of the 3rd movement. What Obama is currently trying to kill off in Libya before it spreads.

You should read the green book.
 
While I agree with your post I'd like to see a source where Thomas Jefferson actually said that. I went looking for an actual quotable source (not just a website that says he said it) for that quote earlier today and spent about a half hour with no luck. Hoping you have a source cause I love the quote.

According to wikiquote, this is often attributed, but disputed.

Thomas Jefferson - Wikiquote

::emp::
 
So I guess you'd assume it's okay if a group of 40 people came in on a tour buss with out a permit?

You can't assume to know what the people were thinking when they were dancing.

To be fair, that's a good point. I've often seen that exact scenario you mention unfold. You know what happens the the monuments get too crowded or the crowd becomes unruly? The park police step in and try to restore order. If that means asking people to wait outside or form a line, so be it. If that means forcefully removing instigators and trouble makers, again, so be it. If it means removing people who are being pushy or purposefully obnoxious just because they're hoping to videotape a forced confrontation with park police, then they would remove them all the same.

The crowd of tourists wouldn't need a permit, but that doesn't mean they could show up and do whatever they want just because its a "public" monument.
 
... the government's judges are, as Hoppe says, the arbitrators of last resort. Got a problem with the government (police, IRS, DHS, TSA, etc.)? Take it to the judges who are on the government dole.

Good luck with that.

From WaPo:

A federal judge has thrown out a lawsuit that alleged the National Park Service violated the rights of a District woman who was arrested in 2008 for dancing with 17 others at the Jefferson Memorial.


U.S. District Judge John D. Bates ruled in a 26-page opinion on Monday that the interior of the memorial is not a public forum where people may dance, even if they are silently boogying to music on headphones.

See what I mean?


I disagree with pretty much everything you post that pertains to economics...

That's it. Gloves are comin' off. I challenge you to a debate! ;)


Thats part of the 3rd movement. What Obama is currently trying to kill off in Libya before it spreads.

You should read the green book.

I had never heard of the green book prior to your mention of it. I'll look it up. Thanks, BigWill.
 
Keep in mind guys the Park Police are the ones who patrol the parks and memorials across DC. They're not directly part of the DC police force, but a separate entity. If you're from DC (as I am), you know their reputation: huge assholes who take their jobs way too seriously.

I worked at a boathouse that was on public park land. A park officer was blocking off the parking lot because of an event, I told him I worked there and need to run in to fill out some forms (10 min max). He said no way, go park somewhere else. I pleaded my case but he said no. He let me drive in to "turn around" so I could leave. I parked anyway and did my business. He caught me on the way out and wrote me a $100 ticket for "disobeying a traffic officer."

Even though the Park Police are huge assholes, that's not to say they're entirely wrong here. These people obviously had an agenda and expected to provoke something with their "silent dancing" in the memorial. They were doing it, and documenting it because they expected to get a rise out of someone. Was the reaction right or wrong? Who am I to say? But if a police officer says "hey cut that out, you're disrupting other peoples enjoyment of this memorial" or if they feel like you're dancing may somehow disrupt other visitors, then they have the right to ask you to do it somewhere else.

The problem with the US is a lot of people think they have the right, the ownership even, over land or space because they're deemed "public." Just because its public land, that doesn't mean you can jump in and make it your private land. And its not up to you to determine whether or not you're infringing on other persons enjoyment of that public land. If you gathered up 60-70 people and started a full fledged flag football game across a whole section of the DC Mall, I'm guessing the Park Police would roll up and ask you to take it elsewhere, secure a permit of some kind, or stop all together.

Are they infringing on your right to use that public space? Hell no. You and your group are assuming control of that space and trying to make it your own.

Anyways, I digress, but my point is, we have to recognize that rights and privileges are not one in the same, and just because something is deemed public, or built for public enjoyment, that doesn't mean you can take it over and make it private (even temporarily) for your personal enjoyment. It also doesn't mean you can ignore the police when they ask you to go somewhere else.

I wholeheartedly agree. There's a time and a place for everything. You want to dance a jig, go right ahead and dance that jig, but if a cop asks you to stop and move on, you stop and move on.

Very much the same way that if you're asked to not film in an airport, you don't film in an airport, even if you feel it's the right thing to do because it's a "public place". Contrary to what some like to think, you don't have the right to do whatever you want in a public place.


I had never heard of the green book prior to your mention of it. I'll look it up.

It's the book that Moammar wrote, and it's funny because I only just heard about it for the first time today because there's an article about it on CNN or the BBC.
 
Good grief! Does the USA really allow that in the name of "free speech"?
What are you, a recent Immigrant?

Look up Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas. Especially on YouTube... These assholes show up at funerals nationwide to "warn" the grieving that something they did is hated by god, and everyone involved is going to hell. -Been going on for a long time now and there is even a counter-culture of bikers that go to military funerals with giant flags to block these asshole's view of the funeral.

It has been widely accepted Westboro is doing this all as a way to attract lawsuits, which they then counter and win big money because of our fucked-up freedom of speech laws.
 
While I agree with your post I'd like to see a source where Thomas Jefferson actually said that. I went looking for an actual quotable source (not just a website that says he said it) for that quote earlier today and spent about a half hour with no luck. Hoping you have a source cause I love the quote.

Thomas Jefferson - Simple English Wikiquote

dot dot dot

edit nm you said not a website. Where else would you get a quote? Scanned documents?