What's your development environment like?
- Thread starter lschmidt
- Start date
until you wash your pen drive in your jeans because you left them in your pocket? I sure hope you're trolling me and not actually arguing that automated remote backups are a bad thing. I can't think of a simpler tool to use than dropbox. It's a folder.
Plus, text editors make you a better coder. If you're not compiling your code, you don't need an IDE.
AND Dreamweaver sucks a whole bucket full of dicks, and teaches bad habits. It should be taken out back and shot.
I'd install xampplite locally. Using a remote server is definitely a pain.
For an IDE/editor, I suggest phpDesigner. Nusphere PhpEd is good too, but phpDesigner is better.
Also, I hate frameworks too.
For an IDE/editor, I suggest phpDesigner. Nusphere PhpEd is good too, but phpDesigner is better.
Also, I hate frameworks too.
For replicating server setup but still developing locally, I like to use VMWare on my mac. I've got a few linux installations on there that I can just fire up and edit. All the files are stored locally so there's no hassle of waiting for them to upload, but I can still test them in an environment identical to the server.
The only problem with this arises when you are dealing with things like API calls and you need external servers to query yours. You could always open up your router but that seems a little iffy. So I like to have a VPS on hand for some quick testing in these cases.
The only problem with this arises when you are dealing with things like API calls and you need external servers to query yours. You could always open up your router but that seems a little iffy. So I like to have a VPS on hand for some quick testing in these cases.
Why not both dropbox and git? I mean you could substitue dropbox for pretty much any thing else, like an external storage devise. Who gives a fuck as long as you have multiple backups.
I do agree with you, a text editor? You ever hear of code completion dchuck? Fucking ruby guys, I tell ya.
From sublime text's site:
So I will start my reply off with a resounding HURR
Next, we'll move on to addressing the fact that the guy that says frameworks aren't for real coders refuses to use an editor that doesn't have code completion. It's like some sort of ironic twilight zone we live in where code completion isn't for pussies but reusing existing code is. I am overflowing with fuck.
Anyone who tells you to not use a framework or that frameworks are a waste is, get ready for it, AN IGNORANT CODER. Ignorant coders cost you money. They spend time working on solved problems. Their list of inventions consists entirely of wheels. One of the best realizations a professional coder can come to in his career is the one where you finally understand that there are a shit ton of coders out there who are infinitely smarter than me, and I should be using, hacking at, and learning from their code rather than attacking every problem with my ten fingers and that thing between my ears.
The bottom line is, the amount of lines of code you write is not indicative of your abilities. Good coders encapsulate, inherit, and reuse. Fuck copy and paste, fuck writing your own authentication system, routers, persistence layers, etc. Follow along with what the Pros are doing and you will become a better programmer. The logic behind not using a framework for coding is the equivalent of saying you want to become the world's best homerun hitter but rather than watching the best hitters and learning from them, you lock yourself in an empty room with a tree branch and some fucking rocks and start swinging.
Someone should switch this thread's icon to a little image of fail city because we're speeding right towards it so far.
dchuck nailed it.
The more I use CodeIgniter, the more I start to love it. Definitely makes things easier and quicker.
Am I the only one who doesn't like autocomplete? Feels like an arrogant cunt is watching me and tries to correct me before I finish my sentence.
The more I use CodeIgniter, the more I start to love it. Definitely makes things easier and quicker.
Am I the only one who doesn't like autocomplete? Feels like an arrogant cunt is watching me and tries to correct me before I finish my sentence.
I love Sublime but there are some things that Dreamweaver does that I like but I don't know how to get Sublime to do them... though I'm sure it can. I need someone to teach me the ways.
Like...
Changing the name of a file and DW giving me the option to update links sitewide to said file.
Double clicking on an image file and having it open in the appropriate image editor instead of showing me binary goobledegook (an image preview would be sweet!). I've installed the sidebar plugin but getting to the image editor is still a right click to navigate to a flyout menu and then selecting Photoshop or whatever I have set as options in there.
Hitting F12 to preview the file I'm working on, or have selected, through localhost in Chrome. CTRL F12 in an alternate browser.
Etc.
dreamweaver was created around the idea of coding sites, and was built with this mentality 10+ years ago. Sublime has no particular concept of "sites", only projects. So you can do a project wide find and replace to accomplish what you're talking about, but I highly doubt Sublime will ever automatically update links in a project because if you were, say, working on a django app, that could be a devastating thing to do automatically.
That fact that you would shun code completion or a good IDE, but prop frameworks for their speed of development is an oxymoron.
Code completion allows you to code faster and more accurately, which is the same argument for being pro-frameworks. The fact I can auto complete something like variable name or a function name means I make less mistakes during the process. It also keeps you from making functions to long function names. Personal pet peeve of mine. A good example of this is when people in PHP make a function like toDB() that runs mysql_real_escape_string(). It makes no sense that you would write a function to a function, I just want to facepalm.
The IDE will also bitch at you if you type something that doesn't make sense and allow you to catch some run time errors before you execute the code. I'm pretty damn good at bug hunting but it's not where you want to spend your time. I know what retarded features right?
Ignorant coder? You can preach speed of development all day every day, but using frameworks as a crutch doesn't make you as free thinking or better at coding. At least not as rapidly. I also believe they will keep people from moving to other languages and trying new things.
I don't know why you'd be so afraid to rip something open build it as you want it, make sure it has all the features you want. I've built a lot of custom shit, but you know the one answer you won't get out of me is, I don't know how to do that because I'm stuck in this such and such framework. If you ask me the whole framework argument is a cop out.
I don't think I've ever seen a study that says frameworks increase the speed of development. Now don't construed that as it doesn't make some individual programmers faster, because it probably does. I mean a hack coder is still going to be a hack coder whether you use one or not. They definatly can bring well needed structure in to a larger product, that I will give it.
One thing you overlook is the additional overhead produced by such frameworks. I know some people will say, well with today's computing it's not as much of an issue. The truth be told is that yes, it is an issue. Server side languages have a lot of overhead compared to compiled code. When you look at a language like PHP and realize that it's like 40 - 50x slower than c/c++ and like 20 - 25x slower than Java, that's huge.
Servers still cost something every month, unless you own your own. So if your code is leaner, and does exactly what you want with less waste it means you need less server resources and can give your users a better experience. That shit is money in the bank.
If you never reach that limit, you never realize it. So for the enthusiasts they think, well gee I can use a framework and I'll be golden. If they are doing nothing of scale, they have an argument. It could be a good benefit for them. But it's a lot harder and look past the initial development time for some people, because it's a lot easier to quantify that initial development cost.
I agree that the amount of lines of code you write are not indicative of your abilities. The ability to build, think creatively, and get results are. Reuse of code is only as good as the code your reusing is. If the code is shit the only thing you're learning to do is reuse shitty code. If you can't answer the questions of, "Is this code shitty? If it is how can I make it better?" Then what good is it doing?
The great thing about not using frameworks is you learn, you get better, and you understand everything at the lowest level. You see all the pieces. This goes back to something I said earlier, if you don't understand how to do it yourself, would you even look at another language? I have a feeling a lot of people would say no, it's too much work. Isn't that why you use a framework in the first place?
I also think your analogy is backwards. You have to go out and hit some rocks around to learn to be good. A hack programmer that uses a framework will probably be better than a hack programmer that doesn't. But that hack programmer that doesn't use a framework will probably grow and understand faster what he's doing and will eventually smoke the hell out programmer that relies on frameworks.
Different strokes for different folks I guess. I know my position isn't a popular position (oh boy do I), and I don't care. I only have my own experiences to draw on as to why it's better to not use them. I don't regret it, and think I'm better overall for it. I'm also not trying to start another one of these threads. We've been there, done that. But I won't bend over and take it either. :1bluewinky:
In be4 TL;DR;
Yeah, understood, though it's optional, not automatic. Any idea how to do the other things I'm talking about?
Why would you spend your time coding a membership system, caching system, language handler, unit tester, mailer, shopping cart, etc. etc. when you could just use a framework that already supplies these (and that does not mean it is loading them and causing overhead - most frameworks will only load functionality that you are using)? Seriously, any argument otherwise is just plain retarded.
Do you use jQuery? That's a framework. Or do you prefer to revert to plain ol' Javascript and fuck around in the DOM yourself?
If you're not going to use a framework, why even use PHP? Or Python for that matter? Just go straight to the bottom and write the webserver in C yourself. Fuck it, why do you even need C? Just write some assembly code! Who needs those damn high level languages, right?
By the way....
Yahoo Answers uses Symfony.
Github uses Rails.
Scribd uses Rails.
Groupon uses Rails.
Instagram uses Django.
Spotify uses Django.
....but the developers at those companies are all a bunch of idiots, amirite?
Do you use jQuery? That's a framework. Or do you prefer to revert to plain ol' Javascript and fuck around in the DOM yourself?
If you're not going to use a framework, why even use PHP? Or Python for that matter? Just go straight to the bottom and write the webserver in C yourself. Fuck it, why do you even need C? Just write some assembly code! Who needs those damn high level languages, right?
By the way....
Yahoo Answers uses Symfony.
Github uses Rails.
Scribd uses Rails.
Groupon uses Rails.
Instagram uses Django.
Spotify uses Django.
....but the developers at those companies are all a bunch of idiots, amirite?
I'm sure there are plenty of idiots out there. Is it because they use frameworks like Rails or Django that it makes them brilliant? Or is it because there are a lot of shitty programmers out there and they need it or they wouldn't get anything done? Or wouldn't they have to pay more for more technically adept programmers? You do realize these large outfits normally have quite a few tiers of monkey programmers and the large part of them are not that good right? Like I said before, I see the organizational benefits, but it doesn't mean it is the best method. More likely the simplistic method.
Or is it because you personally have a hard on for such frameworks that you get so defensive over it?
Use whatever the fuck you want, it doesn't hurt me any. If you could come up with some good reasons besides "you're a fucking idiot", or "because these big services us them" that support your argument why they are so much better, I'm all ears.
Also for all intents and purposes I consider jQuery a library, they even consider themselves a library.
rage, what are you on about? a framework is just a set of libraries, so if you see one library you like, you're all OH SHIT THATS COO but then a second accompanying library appears and you go OH NO WAY IN THE FUCK IM NOT AT THE LOWEST LEVEL
other people, far smarter than you or me use frameworks on a day to day basis, because it allows them to get shit done without studying the subject in all its intricacies.
Do you actually write your own compilers? Because those are frameworks too, how about video/audio playback? You enjoy reinventing ffmpeg? I don't know why I'm even writing any of this because my mind is so full of fuck right now
other people, far smarter than you or me use frameworks on a day to day basis, because it allows them to get shit done without studying the subject in all its intricacies.
Do you actually write your own compilers? Because those are frameworks too, how about video/audio playback? You enjoy reinventing ffmpeg? I don't know why I'm even writing any of this because my mind is so full of fuck right now