Happy False Flag Day!

My tale of 9/11 - On the day in question, I was a young lad in school senior year. Early morning, some rumors started going around the school stating there was some sort of attack. I didn't pay it no mind, until weight training class. We usually had the radio on listening to music, and it was interrupted with an announcement "The pentagon has been bombed." My weight training teacher stated "Pentagon??? That's like the CIA or something..." I looked at him in disbelieve at his inaccuracy of know of what entity works in the Pentagon... (Later on in life I realized why my teacher, and really the masses of people around me simply didn't know how the government was structured or worked).

Later on that day, I went to English class, 3rd period, and they had the news on, which was weird. We sat and watch the first tower drop, and then the 2nd tower drop. EVERYBODY in the room made statements, which surprised me, along the lines "why did they demo that building?", "this looks fake", "planes can't bring down a tower", "what the fuck is going on?". (Interesting Fact, President Bush happened to be about 150 miles from my location at a elementary school, in Florida).

Years went by, and my family visited New York on vacation one fall, and we visited ground zero.

A quick side note about my mother, of all people in the world she is the most skeptical person I've every encountered. You can argue for hours on end with no end result about one way or another. If you bring up a conspiracy, or religious item, forget about it. If you hold a bottle of water in your hand, if you stated that a person who believes in conspiracies gave it to you, she will refute the exist of that bottle of water.

Anyways, back to ground zero, we are listening to a tour guide gives claims about the events of that day. One striking thing he noted, was that that building 7 was the first building to go back up, and now is completely owned by the Chinese, but I digress. My mother looked at me, looked at the crowd, and simply stated, "Something about this doesn't add up..."

If my mother can see the conspiracy, with her history of denying conspiracies, Something definitely doesn't add up. That's my experience of 9/11.

Good luck bros.
 


One argument that I have been thinking about recently is just how does one even take over a plane with a box cutter. They are small as fuck and can't even be used in a stabbing motion. If it was the fixed blade type they are only like half an inch of exposed blade. If it was the thin kind with the long retractable blade then its longer but the blade is designed to break to give you a new edge.

I guess at the time it was just so unheard of and they probably had hostage by the throats since thats about the only damage they could do. You could have had the same effectiveness with any pointed object including a bic pen. Seems the passengers just didn't realize what could/was going to happen and were to scared to see anyone hurt even the slightest bit.

But man what a stupid weapon to take over a plane with, its almost unbelievable.
 
you're an advocate for the 9/11 truther movement which uses selective evidence gathering and offers absolutely nothing in the way of hard evidence.
So you think the film above with all the engineers in it stating their careers in it have no evidence? Dude, you're pretty thick.

You see, in science, there are specializations. An Astronomer wouldn't know very much about cell membranes in biology, and so on... Engineering is a SCIENCE. It's exacting. Engineers use math and physics to know exactly how much tensile strength and heat certain materials can take, and build strong towers out of those materials in order to make safe towers.

Engineers, and in this case Demolition experts, are the only two types of people I'm going to listen to for facts about 9/11, and anyone who can't say the same is a blind, emotional fruitcake who doesn't get their facts from the proper scientific sources... They might as well go get your astronomy facts from a car salesman...



These 9/11 truthers pull a bunch of random BSc's, MSc's and Phd's out of a hat and have them say "Nope. Not possible" and this is supposed to be taken seriously. I'm sorry, but having a whole string of letters after your name does not immediately establish your credibility nor does it make anything you say not sound soul crushingly retarded.
Go find us a larger number of engineers with MSc's and Phd's after their name stating their careers on the fact that it IS possible, and you MAY have a case.

With that said. Thomas Eager at MIT published an excellent paper on why the towers fell as they did.
As Moxie pointed out above, that is a clear propaganda piece... A real Scientist would at least MENTION WTC 7, which is the most dubious point of contention. He avoided it, and totally cherry-picked facts to support his government-approved story. Pure trash.


I guess everyone else is just asking the truthers to get something published. Produce a peer reviewed paper. There were like 900 engineers or something in that first video, one of them has to have a pen.
Which brings up a great point... Think about this: WHY WOULDN'T THEY? Really... If school kids even thought the towers falling looked fake and engineers KNEW it looked fake as it happened, then SOMEONE WOULD HAVE written a paper to eitehr explain or debunk it in a scientific community of that size, don't you think? It'd be like biblical scholars not writing anything down about a reemergence of Christ! So don't you find that a bit fishy in of itself?? No negative papers at all on the subject at the time? Just wow...


And let me just add one very important thing. The AIA wants absolutely nothing to do with this video or the truther movement. The claim that the AIA has put out this video is an absolute lie. Second last paragraph.
Just read your hit piece and noticed two interesting things about it:

1. The press conference was admitted to be held in the AIA HQ. -So if these guys had nothing to do with the AIA, how'd they get access to the main hall of the HQ, and schedule all those people to show up there if they weren't officially allowed to at the time?

2. WTF else would you expect the powers that be to do about this film coming out? Kill 900 engineers? Discrediting them would be the easiest way for everyone. Of course it's really easy to discredit them when you are the state by telling their higher-ups 'we'll fuck your shit if you don't deny them all' but that happened AFTER THE FACT so it's obvious that they were not outcasts beforehand.

You sir have been brainwashed. If you weren't, you would be able to find more engineers that believe in the official story than these guys who say it's bunk. Good luck on that.


It's interesting how the smarter people are, the less likely they are to believe this shit.
"This shit" meaning the official story, right? I never know with you Matt...


LukeP has turned into an Alex Jones sheep.
Fuck you and Alex Jones both. I NEVER watch him because he's so loud and obnoxious.

Every single conspiratorial post I've made has been on the side of science and facts. You're the sheep here until you can submit evidence that somehow trumps hundreds of structural engineers and demolitions experts about their science. Good luck with that.



I always go back to this;

What's more plausible, a dozen or so Arab's put together a plan to hijack 4 airliners and crash them into things OR

Nearly every government agency and thousands of government officials being in on some huge conspiracy to kill innocent Americans so we can go to war in the Middle East for oil? And the entire time, everyone involved keeps their mouth shut and no information is leaked prior to or after 9/11 taking place.
Occam's razor works great IF and ONLY IF you find all the evidence to put on each side of the equation.

Your application of Ocam's razor on this page is embarrassingly childish and leaves off at least 90% of the assumptions from both sides... For instance, you submit on the government's side just a tiny bit of evidence, that A) "a dozeon or so' arabs were behind it and B) that they crashed 4 aircraft into 'things.' Wow... Talk about an understatement. This leaves out so many things like how just some flames from the twin towers fell on WTC 7 yet completely destroyed that steel-framed building... To use Occam's razor there should be a looooooooooong list of assumptions on this side to fit in all the evidence to support the government's "theory" on the 9/11 case.

In application though, I'm afraid Occam's razor becomes tenuous this time. Both lists would become so long it would be hard for the human mind to choose one being more likely than the other.

All you can really do is stick to the facts, and treat this like a detective case.

"Facts" provided by the government SIMPLY DO NOT MATCH EVIDENCE from many sources like videotape and engineering studies.

Facts offered by hundreds of engineers show that airplanes did not bring down those towers, and couldn't have done so if you hit them with a few more airplanes that day.

Facts, like the fact of how a freaking bomber hit the Empire State Building in 1945 and only killed 14 people with very little structual damage at all, would clearly point to the fact that 50 years later we'd have no problem building similar buildings in the same neighborhood that can stand up to another airplane crash.

Facts point to a controlled demolition in all three towers, and possibly TWO controlled demolitions in each of the trade centers, one above the plane-stricken floor, and one at the base... Which means the teams setting up the demolitions had to know where and when the planes would strike the towers to set up those charges ahead of time... Facts support all of this.

I'm tired of dealing with sheep who refuse to deal in facts.


You can't keep a secret in a room with 10 people. How the hell could you keep a secret of this magnitude with hundreds or people involved in killing innocent civilians. There's no way it could happen.
Can you show me any evidence of how this secret has been kept? There are TONS of people in all walks of life showing they had forknowledge of the 9/11 attacks and many, including this CIA agent, were simply thrown in prison to be kept quiet.
 
I just can't believe TPTB haven't taken this smoking gun offline yet:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-WZpXiEKAo]WTC7 - "That is the building that is going to go down next" - YouTube[/ame]

What other proof do you buffoons need?
 

I don't know why you pretend like any amount of evidence could ever change your mind. The sad fact about the 9/11 truthers is that they wish this to be true. It's like a religion for you guys.

This has nothing to do with science for you. It's about being more clever and more informed than everyone else.

You're asking for engineers when The American Society of Civil Engineers along with FEMA conducted a massive investigation. The director of the Structural Engineering Institute was on board, the National Fire Protection Association. Not to mention countless engineering and design firms from across the country.

None of that matters though because they're all paid shills. Everyone is either in on it or brainwashed.

The National Institute of Standards and Technology did it's own 43 volume study. 200 technical experts, over 1000 people were interviewed. Once again, it doesn't-fucking-matter. They're in on it.

But a team of scientists and engineers handpicked by some crackpot with zero credibility is the real deal, I'm sure.

You've never even read any of the investigations conducted by these organizations. You made up your mind as soon as the first tower was hit. Because you're a conspiracist. This is what you do.

As for Richard Gage and the AIA, please read the article more carefully. There is three pages.

There were no members of the AIA present... except for Richard Gage. The audience was comprised of 9/11 truthers. Gage rented out the space and the AIA continues to make it clear to Gage that they do not want him giving the misimpression that they have anything to do with his group. Read the whole article. It's a good read.
 
... It's a good read.
It's a shit read, and discredits itself from the start. Why should I believe the author about the background of those in attendance?

Again, you don't quote facts, you deal in rumor and regurgitate propaganda. So much trying to show you any facts, you don't stop to examine any of them.

But some people just don't want to be pulled out of their safe little worlds where mama guv takes care of them and protects them from all those evil cavemen with boxcutters out to steal your freedoms. :anon.sml:

Far be it from me to stop you believing in that which makes you feel safe.
 
I don't know why you pretend like any amount of evidence could ever change your mind. The sad fact about the 9/11 truthers is that they wish this to be true. It's like a religion for you guys.

This has nothing to do with science for you. It's about being more clever and more informed than everyone else.

I know what you're getting at bro but this is not a globalization that you can accurately make and you need to appreciate that.

I'm not speaking for Luke but as for myself, I wish to god 9/11 was not an inside job. Please believe I do not derive satisfaction from knowing that people in the highest ranks of power in my country and other countries will thoughtlessly slaughter my friends, relatives, and countrymen to further their own evil will. But that's just the way it is. And I'd rather know the truth than not know the truth, and I'd rather let others know the truth than keep them in the dark.

Truth be told the fact that so many people have been indoctrinated beyond the ability to see the wheels of history turn right before their very eyes makes me very sad, somewhat dejected, and I honestly worry about the fate of our country and the species in general if things like this can happen in broad daylight and the people who carry them out just continue on unaccountable. I don't feel clever in the slightest. Frustrated really more than anything.

9/11 activism is a tough row to hoe and I promise you I would rather be feeling clever by boobytrapping my shower for the girl I'm seeing or dropping my speedcubing times by a few seconds than waking people up to a bunch of mass murdering lunatics running around blowing up buildings and blaming it on people halfway around the planet from me :/
 
The sad fact about the 9/11 truthers is that they wish this to be true. It's like a religion for you guys.

This has nothing to do with science for you. It's about being more clever and more informed than everyone else.

If anything, I'd say it's the opposite. The ones who support the official government version of the story are the ones who throw critical thinking and problem solving out the window, because they can't comprehend a reality where their own government would partake in something like that.

If you took the official 9/11 story, and transposed it into another timeline and storyline, that has nothing to do with the US, its government or citizens, then no rational individual would believe it.
 
I remember when I was in university, I took a philosophy course that talked about the principals of Governmentality by Michael Foucault. Although the concept was irrelevant towards the class, his description of governmentality was one of the most fascinating things I had read. The notion of a ruling body, how "we" are governed to act a certain way or directed to act or behave a certain way.

His description of governmentality draws many parallels to illumanti, in that, through events the government and corporations are able to attain a new world order. For example, the shifting of the United States mentality due to 9/11 allowing for a full blown war to ensue. As well as the orchestration of the aurora shootings to publicly change the mass view on the second amendment.

However true those statements may be, the point is, it is moronic to deny the statements above due to you believing that your government is a wholesome, ever-loving unity that could never be run by a self interested, greedy individuals. Is it so wrong to believe that your president could murder upwards of 3,000 people? Many citizens of Germany where in denial for a long time about concentration camps.

It is this persuasion and guidance by the government that Foucault mentioned was the only reason a governing body was created. It is this establishment of the government to aid in mass controlling on the public to whatever views it may believe is correct.

That's it and good night. I pray for those of you, who beg to defer (that is if I ever conform to what you would call a "religion")
 
At this point I gotta get some work done and this argument is like arguing with the religious.

I'm outta here, but for anyone who still thinks that 9/11 wasn't some kind of inside job, please, take me up on my Dare from earlier and find JUST ONE structural engineer who knows steel-framed buildings like the WTC towers and bldg 7 and ask them if the gov's story is even REMOTELY plausible. Just one. (That doesn't work for the US Government.)

Don't believe me, believe a structural engineer about structural engineering.

If you don't do that then you are clearly a simpleton who likes to talk out of your ass without checking any facts for yourself.
 
At this point I gotta get some work done and this argument is like arguing with the religious.

I'm outta here, but for anyone who still thinks that 9/11 wasn't some kind of inside job, please, take me up on my Dare from earlier and find JUST ONE structural engineer who knows steel-framed buildings like the WTC towers and bldg 7 and ask them if the gov's story is even REMOTELY plausible. Just one. (That doesn't work for the US Government.)

Don't believe me, believe a structural engineer about structural engineering.

If you don't do that then you are clearly a simpleton who likes to talk out of your ass without checking any facts for yourself.

You're so much smarter than everyone Luke. You've got it all figured out. Such a maverick.

I'm almost surprised that your cult doesn't have more credibility and instead is laughed out of every public forum.

All of your pseudo-scientific claims have been debunked by numerous journals and publications over the last 11 years. But you're not interested in any of that. As I said, your mind was made up the moment that first tower was hit.

But none of it really matters anyway, because the rest of the world will just continue to ignore you. Along with the Holocaust deniers and the Rapturists. Because you're all the same brand of crazy.
 
You're so much smarter than everyone Luke. You've got it all figured out. Such a maverick.

I'm almost surprised that your cult doesn't have more credibility and instead is laughed out of every public forum.

All of your pseudo-scientific claims have been debunked by numerous journals and publications over the last 11 years. But you're not interested in any of that. As I said, your mind was made up the moment that first tower was hit.

But none of it really matters anyway, because the rest of the world will just continue to ignore you. Along with the Holocaust deniers and the Rapturists. Because you're all the same brand of crazy.

So what's the fucking motive?
 
Closing thought on the day: this doesn't seem like any way to investigate the deadliest attack on US soil in the nation's history.


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My tale of 9/11 - On the day in question, I was a young lad in school senior year. Early morning, some rumors started going around the school stating there was some sort of attack. I didn't pay it no mind, until weight training class. We usually had the radio on listening to music, and it was interrupted with an announcement "The pentagon has been bombed." My weight training teacher stated "Pentagon??? That's like the CIA or something..." I looked at him in disbelieve at his inaccuracy of know of what entity works in the Pentagon... (Later on in life I realized why my teacher, and really the masses of people around me simply didn't know how the government was structured or worked).

Later on that day, I went to English class, 3rd period, and they had the news on, which was weird. We sat and watch the first tower drop, and then the 2nd tower drop. EVERYBODY in the room made statements, which surprised me, along the lines "why did they demo that building?", "this looks fake", "planes can't bring down a tower", "what the fuck is going on?". (Interesting Fact, President Bush happened to be about 150 miles from my location at a elementary school, in Florida).

Years went by, and my family visited New York on vacation one fall, and we visited ground zero.

A quick side note about my mother, of all people in the world she is the most skeptical person I've every encountered. You can argue for hours on end with no end result about one way or another. If you bring up a conspiracy, or religious item, forget about it. If you hold a bottle of water in your hand, if you stated that a person who believes in conspiracies gave it to you, she will refute the exist of that bottle of water.

Anyways, back to ground zero, we are listening to a tour guide gives claims about the events of that day. One striking thing he noted, was that that building 7 was the first building to go back up, and now is completely owned by the Chinese, but I digress. My mother looked at me, looked at the crowd, and simply stated, "Something about this doesn't add up..."

If my mother can see the conspiracy, with her history of denying conspiracies, Something definitely doesn't add up. That's my experience of 9/11.

Good luck bros.

Read: My dumb ass teacher and my mom thought something suspicious happened during 9/11 so it must be a conspiracy.

Which is about the same level of coherence that LukeP is exhibiting.
 
My tale of 9/11 - On the day in question, I was a young lad in school senior year. Early morning, some rumors started going around the school stating there was some sort of attack. I didn't pay it no mind, until weight training class. We usually had the radio on listening to music, and it was interrupted with an announcement "The pentagon has been bombed." My weight training teacher stated "Pentagon??? That's like the CIA or something..." I looked at him in disbelieve at his inaccuracy of know of what entity works in the Pentagon... (Later on in life I realized why my teacher, and really the masses of people around me simply didn't know how the government was structured or worked).

Later on that day, I went to English class, 3rd period, and they had the news on, which was weird. We sat and watch the first tower drop, and then the 2nd tower drop. EVERYBODY in the room made statements, which surprised me, along the lines "why did they demo that building?", "this looks fake", "planes can't bring down a tower", "what the fuck is going on?". (Interesting Fact, President Bush happened to be about 150 miles from my location at a elementary school, in Florida).

Years went by, and my family visited New York on vacation one fall, and we visited ground zero.

A quick side note about my mother, of all people in the world she is the most skeptical person I've every encountered. You can argue for hours on end with no end result about one way or another. If you bring up a conspiracy, or religious item, forget about it. If you hold a bottle of water in your hand, if you stated that a person who believes in conspiracies gave it to you, she will refute the exist of that bottle of water.

Anyways, back to ground zero, we are listening to a tour guide gives claims about the events of that day. One striking thing he noted, was that that building 7 was the first building to go back up, and now is completely owned by the Chinese, but I digress. My mother looked at me, looked at the crowd, and simply stated, "Something about this doesn't add up..."

If my mother can see the conspiracy, with her history of denying conspiracies, Something definitely doesn't add up. That's my experience of 9/11.

Good luck bros.

Senior high school students deem 9/11 fake. CC's mother, a skeptic of skeptics, is skeptical.

Something doesn't add up.
 
Facts, like the fact of how a freaking bomber hit the Empire State Building in 1945 and only killed 14 people with very little structual damage at all, would clearly point to the fact that 50 years later we'd have no problem building similar buildings in the same neighborhood that can stand up to another airplane crash.
I agree with your points in this thread overall, but from what I've seen, a B25 is much much smaller than a 767.

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