ABC 20/20 - College is a Rip Off

Status
Not open for further replies.


its true but lol @ her getting 85k in debt getting an ARTS degree and being baffled about the lack of good jobs awaiting her.

50713Image1.jpg


Theres a difference between being screwed by the system and just being downright fuckin naive. 85k for just a 4yr bachelors? An Art degree? Wut no jobz? COM'N!
 
Luckily I will not be graduating with any debt, I really think the experience is worth it anyways. I think the truly smart people don't bother with college and go on straight to making money, working with themselves but it is nice to have a backup plan, not to put all of your eggs in one basket.
 
Even though in hindsight art college was unnecessary, I thoroughly enjoyed the experience and a lot of the people I met, some of whom are still good friends of mine.

We sold paintings and Xmas cards to raise funds and traveled to NYC in 1996 for 10 days of gallery tours and partying. Plus, there was a great strip club just a block from our school where we spent many a lunch hour in gyno row... often with the head of the program and our teachers sat across the stage from us.

I graduated with a bit of debt, but interest rates are low on student loans, and it wasn't anything that couldn't be managed with a small monthly payment for a few years.
 
I think it's more a class thing than anything. But if you go on to make 1 BILLION DOLLARS *cue dr evil pic* then no ones going to care where/if you went to college.
 
I think that people are retarded for 2 reasons:

1) They go to college for disciplines that will NEVER land you a job.

2) They go to expensive colleges rather then state schools and rack up tremendous debt.

The only reason to do (2) MAYBE would be if your going to be a doctor or a lawyer, otherwise a state school is fine and if your bright and a hustler you will do very very well for yourself.
 
I definitely agree that college itself is becoming a bit of a waste for a whole lot of people, especially for kids who go to crappy private colleges, major in psychology and beer, who then expect the world to welcome them with a pat on the back and a huge starting salary.

In my opinion, the only way a private college is worth it is if you're going to a top 20 or 30 (nationally) ranked school and you intend to work in a field that requires either networking or frequent mentions of your academic credentials. For most people, it's just not worth it to pay for a top school, and if you pay private school prices for a crappy school, you get what you deserve.

As an example, I divided my undergraduate time between two schools that typically rank in the top 10 or 15 schools in the nation. When I applied for jobs, I was asked in to interview for every single job I applied for, and every one of them made an offer. My younger sister, who graduated with a better gpa, better extracurriculars, and a much friendlier personality applied to dozens of positions and it took her over a year to actually find something in the field she wanted (same field and same city, btw). My first position post-college was a Director-level position with an assistant. My sister was an assistant.

When I go out to local events and speak vaguely about business ideas, those who have previously asked where I went to school will often spontaneously offer to fund the ideas or help out with connections, even though I have no business plan and no serious intentions - I'm just talking for the sake of discussion.

When I wanted to learn about different entrepreneurial possibilities, I logged into the school's alumni assistance database and instantly found dozens of extremely successful people willing to meet face-to-face with alumni to help out.

During college, I was repeatedly invited to small, intimate events with upper level management of major corporations and highly successful entrepreneurs. They spoke to students as future equals, not annoying kids. On one occasion, I spent the day shadowing the CEO of a software company and she bought me lunch afterwards.

And of course, the schools spend a lot of time trying to brainwash you to think you're somehow better than everyone else. When I started at my first school, they sat everyone down in a massive, architecturally-stunning chapel and gave us a speech that basically said, "Congratulations. By all objective measures, you're now in one of the most elite groups in the country. Over the years, you will out-network, out-learn, and out-earn most of the people in our society. You're awesome, etc." Although I'm pretty sure that most of the people there were already well on their way to becoming insufferable douchebags, the speech couldn't have helped. My sisters got a 2-day orientation with a speech in a stadium that repeatedly told them to avoid binge drinking and false fire alarms.

Later, when I lived near my sisters, I watched their experiences as they went through their state school. It was completely different. They were shuffled around like numbers, their tests were often multiple choice, and despite a lot of effort on my sister's part, there were very few opportunities for networking - most of them featured businesspeople from tiny local businesses or 1-2 big company employees who were so swarmed by students that she had very little chance of making a quality connection. My friends who went to state schools (for the most part) had very similar experiences.

I would cite the quality of education as a key difference, but I think that varies heavily on the school and the subject. The first school I went to in Chicago offered an excellent education. The coursework was roughly 3-4 times what my sisters did at their schools, and the assignments and tests were much more open-ended. There was also a lot more freedom on what you could take. I got to take astrophysics as a first-year, neuroscience as a second-year, etc., while my sisters were stuck with Biology 101, Geology 101, etc. My school was big on letting you jump right in and tackle anything you thought you could handle, with very few exceptions. They also focused heavily on original texts and studies vs. textbooks like most state schools I've seen. Projects were very open-ended and often took the whole quarter, so it also helped students develop the ability to independently break down large tasks and stay focused over more than just a week or two.

The second school I went to, however, was nowhere near the first in quality. If I hadn't moved to be near a significant other, I would have gone back because it was just so awful. Educationally, there was very little difference in my second school and a typical state school. It was all about memorization, multiple choice tests, and second-hand information from textbooks.

Depending on your goals, I definitely think that "name brand" private schools can make a tremendous difference in the way your career plays out. If you can handle the debt and you will actually be using the education and connections wisely, I think people should go for it. Obviously, you can become successful and get the same things without it, but if you'll be using the benefits of the connections you get, $60-120k in debt is a small price to pay for the advantage.

Of my friends from college, I can only think of one or two who make less than 100k/year, and they all chose the non-profit or education route. My roommate studied Poli Sci and she now works as a consultant for some company over in London making around 200k, another roommate is a lawyer in Manhattan making a similar amount, an old classmate I still keep in touch with runs a gallery in New York and makes a very healthy living, etc.

I don't really use my education or the associated connections much as a full-time affiliate, but I'm definitely glad to have had it. I would probably do it again, even if I had to take the entire amount out in loans. If you're considering a private school and it's a place that will give you good connections and a head start when you get out, I say go for it - especially if you don't come from a family that already has connections. Don't let all the "college degrees are a waste" talk scare you off. You can always do affiliate marketing while you're there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kingofsp, JamesH, kblessinggr and 1 other person
stefanie said:
I definitely agree that college itself is becoming a bit of a waste for a whole lot of people, especially for kids who go to crappy private colleges, major in psychology and beer, who then expect the world to welcome them with a pat on the back and a huge starting salary.

In my opinion, the only way a private college is worth it is if you're going to a top 20 or 30 (nationally) ranked school and you intend to work in a field that requires either networking or frequent mentions of your academic credentials. For most people, it's just not worth it to pay for a top school, and if you pay private school prices for a crappy school, you get what you deserve.

As an example, I divided my undergraduate time between two schools that typically rank in the top 10 or 15 schools in the nation. When I applied for jobs, I was asked in to interview for every single job I applied for, and every one of them made an offer. My younger sister, who graduated with a better gpa, better extracurriculars, and a much friendlier personality applied to dozens of positions and it took her over a year to actually find something in the field she wanted (same field and same city, btw). My first position post-college was a Director-level position with an assistant. My sister was an assistant.

When I go out to local events and speak vaguely about business ideas, those who have previously asked where I went to school will often spontaneously offer to fund the ideas or help out with connections, even though I have no business plan and no serious intentions - I'm just talking for the sake of discussion.

When I wanted to learn about different entrepreneurial possibilities, I logged into the school's alumni assistance database and instantly found dozens of extremely successful people willing to meet face-to-face with alumni to help out.

During college, I was repeatedly invited to small, intimate events with upper level management of major corporations and highly successful entrepreneurs. They spoke to students as future equals, not annoying kids. On one occasion, I spent the day shadowing the CEO of a software company and she bought me lunch afterwards.

And of course, the schools spend a lot of time trying to brainwash you to think you're somehow better than everyone else. When I started at my first school, they sat everyone down in a massive, architecturally-stunning chapel and gave us a speech that basically said, "Congratulations. By all objective measures, you're now in one of the most elite groups in the country. Over the years, you will out-network, out-learn, and out-earn most of the people in our society. You're awesome, etc." Although I'm pretty sure that most of the people there were already well on their way to becoming insufferable douchebags, the speech couldn't have helped. My sisters got a 2-day orientation with a speech in a stadium that repeatedly told them to avoid binge drinking and false fire alarms.

Later, when I lived near my sisters, I watched their experiences as they went through their state school. It was completely different. They were shuffled around like numbers, their tests were often multiple choice, and despite a lot of effort on my sister's part, there were very few opportunities for networking - most of them featured businesspeople from tiny local businesses or 1-2 big company employees who were so swarmed by students that she had very little chance of making a quality connection. My friends who went to state schools (for the most part) had very similar experiences.

I would cite the quality of education as a key difference, but I think that varies heavily on the school and the subject. The first school I went to in Chicago offered an excellent education. The coursework was roughly 3-4 times what my sisters did at their schools, and the assignments and tests were much more open-ended. There was also a lot more freedom on what you could take. I got to take astrophysics as a first-year, neuroscience as a second-year, etc., while my sisters were stuck with Biology 101, Geology 101, etc. My school was big on letting you jump right in and tackle anything you thought you could handle, with very few exceptions. They also focused heavily on original texts and studies vs. textbooks like most state schools I've seen. Projects were very open-ended and often took the whole quarter, so it also helped students develop the ability to independently break down large tasks and stay focused over more than just a week or two.

The second school I went to, however, was nowhere near the first in quality. If I hadn't moved to be near a significant other, I would have gone back because it was just so awful. Educationally, there was very little difference in my second school and a typical state school. It was all about memorization, multiple choice tests, and second-hand information from textbooks.

Depending on your goals, I definitely think that "name brand" private schools can make a tremendous difference in the way your career plays out. If you can handle the debt and you will actually be using the education and connections wisely, I think people should go for it. Obviously, you can become successful and get the same things without it, but if you'll be using the benefits of the connections you get, $60-120k in debt is a small price to pay for the advantage.

Of my friends from college, I can only think of one or two who make less than 100k/year, and they all chose the non-profit or education route. My roommate studied Poli Sci and she now works as a consultant for some company over in London making around 200k, another roommate is a lawyer in Manhattan making a similar amount, an old classmate I still keep in touch with runs a gallery in New York and makes a very healthy living, etc.

I don't really use my education or the associated connections much as a full-time affiliate, but I'm definitely glad to have had it. I would probably do it again, even if I had to take the entire amount out in loans. If you're considering a private school and it's a place that will give you good connections and a head start when you get out, I say go for it - especially if you don't come from a family that already has connections. Don't let all the "college degrees are a waste" talk scare you off. You can always do affiliate marketing while you're there.
Click to expand...

um... tl;dr. I have 2 degrees and wouldn't read that much :)

How 'bout a summary next time?
 
I read it and it was actually quite insightful, even gave her some rep for the post. Next time dont be a pompus asshat and don't quote the text, especially if it is too long.

Summary -

Ivy league schools offer more potentials and prospects than traditional state colleges, worth it even if taking a full loan.
 
Did you guys actually watch the video? It's really more of an argument that college is a waste for those who aren't high achievers to begin with.

YMMV but I went to a top 5 school and I honestly think that my life wouldn't be all that different had I chosen to go to the local public university instead.
 
@ The op, not like something you can go stand in line at Day Labor for, and wait for some job listing requiring a degree in the arts. And besides she should have figured out what she'd do job wise, long before she finished her degree.
 
pharmhand said:
Did you guys actually watch the video? It's really more of an argument that college is a waste for those who aren't high achievers to begin with.

YMMV but I went to a top 5 school and I honestly think that my life wouldn't be all that different had I chosen to go to the local public university instead.
Click to expand...

It's a tool like anything else, if you can't effectively utilize the tool, you're bound to fail.
 
@stefanie So in short, going to the right college is worth it for the networking opportunities, and the implied credibility. No thanks.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom