All this over a 30$ Job and I don't even know who wants to sue me.

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kblessinggr

kblessinggr

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Sep 15, 2008
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www.kbeezie.com
For the purpose of their protection, we'll use the names JohnnyPal and Doobly Goobly as the two parties involved.

I worked with JohnnyPal quite a bit before in the past, mostly PSD to xHTML conversions and so forth, sometimes the occasional php or javascript assistance and so forth.

Well he hits me up saying he wants to find a way to keep people from ripping his landing pages, as most of the folks don't even change the content or such, just the offer links. So course I told him 30$ and I could put something together for him and show him how to set it up, but warned him might be a little slow cuz I'm getting ready for the birth of my third son.

So I finished it up, he sent me a lil extra "for the cause", which I assume for the new baby and such, he's usually pretty nice that way. Helped him tweak it up a little more, even mentioned thinking bout selling the script as a product, to which he didn't really say anything, just changed the subject and continued on about the tweaks.

So I'm at the hospital and I'm thinking, know what, I'm gona do it, I know some of the folks on WF would like an simple auotmatic way to protect their landing page from being copied, and I know the concept is not new at all (I know a couple people who did almost the exact same thing a year ago, just required a tiny bit of coding). And I go ahead and post it on Wicked Fire as LPProtect which some of you may have saw, and even one reviewed it and loved it.

Well I get an email from JohnnyPal:
Karl,

What are you doing selling a script that we paid for?! This is from my parent company and needless to say they are pissed BEYOND belief. The guys are WF are the guys that do 90% of the ripping of lp's man!

"We need you to inform him that It isn't owned by him it is owned by our company. It is our intent to pursue this in the court of law."

Karl, I've told them I can get this taken care of, that your a good guy and it was just a misunderstanding. Don't let me down here. You've got to take it off WF and anywhere else your selling this ASAP.

Best,

JohnnyPal
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Along with an IM
btw, i didnt know you were serious about selling this
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Followed Immediately by a private message from a Moderator:
I was contacted by Doobly Goobly, who claims he contracted you to write that script for him. He further claims that he was supposed to have exclusive rights and he is suing you for reselling it.

I don't know what your side of the story is, but to protect you and Wickedfire, I removed the post.

That's the extent of my involvement in whatever is going on between you and Dobbly.

Just thought you should know why the post was removed. I'm not saying you can't put it back up, just letting you know.

Thanks!
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Course I'm thinking the following:
1) Who the hell is Doobly Goobly, and why haven't I ever met, talked, email, IM, or contacted by him in any way before?
2) Where's the exclusivity agreement I signed?
3) Where's the Non-Disclosure agreement I signed?
4) Who the heck is the 'parent company'? I thought I was doing a service directly for JohnnyPal.
5) Why am I being sued for a 30$ service?

And the biggest question:

"How does this damage them?"

I just bought my kid home today, only to get an email bout being sued, yet I have not received any contact from Doobly Goobly yet, or the Company he represents, at most is the email from JohnnyPal above. And course I log 100% of my IM chats and emails, and nothing in there mentioned any kind of exclusivity or written contract.

If I recall from my photography days, any work I put out entitles me as the copyright holder, unless I am either salaried by the company, or written contract says otherwise, as stated by the work for hire act of 1975.

What really bugs me is I still haven't had any direct contact with "Doobly Goobly" or the company he represents, nor was ever told by JohnnyPal that he was a represenative of this "parent" company of which I still don't know the name of it.

Anyways this just made me sick to my stomach, probably because of all the things today combined.
 


So, I'm betting that JohnnyPal is a middle man. Though he paid you $30 or whatever, he charged probably $500 to the parent company. They see their new $500 script running around the internet, and freak the fuck out. JohnnyPal, hoping that you're scared of the "big bad mother company" who'll sue you, tells you this, and tries to get you to cave so he doesn't look bad for his client.

Here's the deal, because I don't like where this is headed:

I will offer to refund the $30 to JohnnyPal on the basis that Karl is a good guy, and I don't think he knew his work was being 'resold' here. I hate to see anyone, especially someone with a new kid at home dealing with lawyers over $30 fucking dollars.

Can this just go away plox? Kthxbai
 
First, he has every right to be pissed and at least get his money back. You can't ever go and sell work you've done for someone elsewithout their permission. Yes he owns the script and you have no right to sell it without getting his permission first. I don't know about the lawsuit part, that seems way overboard and is probably just an empty threat, but yeah you're pretty much in the wrong here.
 
It's fairly common knowledge that when you do work for someone that they own it once they pay for it, regardless of there being an NDA, agreement, etc.

You are clearly in the wrong.

I'm a developer myself. I would never even consider selling something that I wrote for a client. Completely unethical.
 
sucks man. If it were me I would be enjoying the birth of the new child.

Focus on the important stuff - this is a special time (said the guy with no kids lol) but its fairly obvious that this guy is passing the shit he is getting downhill.

Congrats btw!
 
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As you mentioned, there is no contract. This may just be a scare tactic to get you to stop knowing full well that they have nothing on you.
 
Deliguy said:
First, he has every right to be pissed and at least get his money back. You don't ever go and sell work you've done for someone else publicly without their permission. Yes he owns the script and you have no right to sell it without getting his permission first. I don't know about the lawsuit part, that seems way overboard and is probably just an empty threat, but yeah you're pretty much in the wrong here.
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I disagree. Back in my freelance days we'd have big discussions over why these huge companies charge thousands and thousands for simple shit. It is because they sign over ALL rights, to where the client can say HE made it and the company that designed it can't say shit.

Legally speaking, I believe Karl is in the clear. Ethically? I wouldn't have done it, or I would have at least made sure your client knew you were going to resell the script.

BTW, I'm not a layer.
 
Moral wise, if you made the script for them and now you're reselling it - you're fucked up.

Legal wise, if you didn't sign a contract and verbal isn't legally binding where you live, and even some emails can be considered intention & even though I doubt it, sometimes legally binding it, I'd still watch it.

PS - If you send me $200 I'll recode it and sell it to you, so you can legally sell it as well. Har har!
 
yo.

Sounds like a simple script.

Just write a new script. Give it a different name. Then it's 100% your creation and not done on someone else's dime.
 
no no no
The only thing protecting freelancers is the fact that they aren't reselling their work. You bought it, it's yours. It's just like content writing. Imagine if you paid a content writer to write a hundred articles on your tight niche and after he's done and paid he zips it up and goes and sells it on DP to a dozen people. It's the rights of the person hiring you to own the work you complete that is the entire reason they're willing to hire a freelance. Often times programmers I hire to code something will ask me if they can resell it, sometimes I say yes sometimes I say no. If its distribution isn't a harm to me i'll usually let it go under the agreement that they never sell it for cheaper then what I paid. If it's something like the situation above where the script getting out hurts the effectiveness of what he paid for then no way.

Imagine if you hired someone to custom code an entire site for you. Then as you're building it up the programmer goes off and sells the code on a forum. If that was common practice and assumed then all freelancers would do it (hell extra money for the same amount of work) and no one would hire freelancers anymore. Like I said it's the only thing protecting the freelancers themselves.
 
I don't think you should be reselling it. I'd be a little pissed if I found that a programmer is reselling whatever I hired him to create unless we had agreed on it. Usually programmers will have different prices for their work, a higher exclusive price and a cheaper price if you allow them to resell it...
 
Deliguy said:
no no no
The only thing protecting freelancers is the fact that they aren't reselling their work. You bought it, it's yours. It's just like content writing. Imagine if you paid a content writer to write a hundred articles on your tight niche and after he's done and paid he zips it up and goes and sells it on DP to a dozen people. It's the rights of the person hiring you to own the work you complete that is the entire reason they're willing to hire a freelance. Often times programmers I hire to code something will ask me if they can resell it, sometimes I say yes sometimes I say no. If its distribution isn't a harm to me i'll usually let it go under the agreement that they never sell it for cheaper then what I paid. If it's something like the situation above where the script getting out hurts the effectiveness of what he paid for then no way.

Imagine if you hired someone to custom code an entire site for you. Then as you're building it up the programmer goes off and sells the code on a forum. If that was common practice and assumed then all freelancers would do it (hell extra money for the same amount of work) and no one would hire freelancers anymore. Like I said it's the only thing protecting the freelancers themselves.
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This is a bit different, its utilizing my 'service' to secure something, I'm not creating content, a design, a corporate idenity, etc.

In a nutshell its

PHP:
Is $_SERVER['HTTP_REFERER'] contained in $_SERVER['SERVER_NAME']?

If so:
Jquery:
Code: 
$(document).ready(function() {$("a[attribute='value']").click(function() {$(this).attr("href", "newurl");});});


That's all, that's it, if they want exclusive rights to my ability to use environment variables and a single javascript line of code, they are going to have to pay a hell of a lot more than 30$, the fact of the matter is, I even mentioned selling it to the original guy I was working with. I had absolutely no communication, and still have no communication with the guy threatening legal action.
 
As a developer myself I have toyed with this question.

On one hand most of the time you have no contract or NDA stating you won't sell it.

On the other hand someone doesn't want to work with someone that will turn around and sell something they paid for you to develop for them.

On the other hand people are delusional of the cost of coding.

They can't sue you for shit (not that it'd be worth it over the whole $50 or whatnot). But does kill your cred a little bit.

That's why I hate writing (and charge a lot for) one off apps, because there's not enough money in them.

You got caught and called out, return the mans money (or at the very least all of it but what you charge for the code to everyone else, $20) and save face.
 
markus said:
they've got nothing.
tried to bully you into backing down.
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this.

until you get a certified letter in the mail (which you can just not pick up at the post office), i would tell everyone to fuck themselves if i were you. if the guy actually gets you in court, beat the shit out of him afterwards for being a faggot.
 
Webwonder said:
I don't think you should be reselling it. I'd be a little pissed if I found that a programmer is reselling whatever I hired him to create unless we had agreed on it. Usually programmers will have different prices for their work, a higher exclusive price and a cheaper price if you allow them to resell it...
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Exactly, that's how I try and work. You have to make it worth it to the coder to NOT resell it.

It's simple business, if I think I could even sell 10 copy's of something for $40 a pop, and you want me to write it for $200, guess what, you're screwed.

Or get it in writing.
 
First of all, you're not being sued unless you've been served. They can piss, moan and bitch all they want but until they get off their ass and do something about it they're just blowing off steam. They're not going to because it's not worth their time.

Second of all, the middle man is totally an idiot. He's outsourcing his workload that he likely knows he can't resell without mentioning it. As of now, he's likely been fired because his employer knows he's marking his work up 1000% before they get it.

Third of all, someone needs to sticky your SBT thread.

Fuck corporate greed over a 20 minute hack that's used on thousands of sites already. If it was something revolutionary ... ok, I understand. Over something like that, fuck them.

IANAL
 
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