Am I an asshole for telling my friend this?

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Traska

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In short:

A few months ago my friend lost his job as a mechanic and has been unemployed since. Then he got the idea that going back to school would be his best bet, for graphic design...:updown: When he told me this I let him know about lynda.com and sitepoint.com and tried to tell him that he doesn't need to go to a trade school for $10,000+ to learn to draw on a pc.

Now 2 months later he tells me about how he has been asking his family for money to go back to school, I asked him if he gave the sites I told him about a look and he said "naaaaw I haven't yet." So I told him that it doesn't matter what school he goes to because it's his portfolio that will get him jobs as a graphic artist, not a degree, and that he will be burning money if he doesn't give what I am saying some thought. He got all up in arms and said that I am being too negative and that I am an asshole...

I learned everything I know for dirt cheap through site point books and lynda.com videos. Were my statements really that off...? :ugone2far:
 


No, your just helping him out and he's the one being an ass about it. I totally agree with your statement. We don;t need to go to school to learn this stuff. I learnt dreamweaver and html using lynda.com. He is too fixated on going back to school and just doesn;t listen to alternatives.
 
Traska said:
... He got all up in arms and said that I am being too negative and that I am an asshole...
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1. people don't like honesty, they live in la la land
2. assholes are usually right when they are being honest
3. people respect assholes in the long run because of their honesty

It truly takes a real man to always tell the truth ... you fucking asshole
 
Look at things from his point of view.

He's the one who is unsure if he can do this new career. You're the one that has proven you can.

He's the one who feels disconnected from his identity, which his old job was a large part of. You're the one who knows exactly what your identity is.

He's the one worried about income and the financial unknown. You're the one who has made money like you do for a while and know the ropes/constraings/income potential.

All in all, if he's fighting the resources you gave, he'll likely fail anyway. When he does, don't rub it in, just lead him down the right path, if he has any path left to go down.

He's likely inwardly jealous of you, and any who have a real job, don't take it personally, everyone who has been laid off takes a hit mentally. He'll see the light.
 
Fuck, that is some of the most sound advice you could have given the man. He called you a negative asshole for that? Dude needs to get a grip.

First of all, does he have any artistic talent? Design school can't teach you that.

He's better off taking any money he can get his hands on and investing it in hardware (more processing power, bigger dual screens, a Wacom, and licensed software), books and online courses.

As pointed out in the previous education thread, design school wasn't a total waste of time for me, but it set me back many thousands of dollars and if I had spent that on other things I would have been in a much better position in a shorter period of time.

Send him an email with the links to the sites you are recommending, plus the likes of Logopond, 99designs, Foliostars, theFWA, etc. and show him threads like these. If he can't figure it out for himself then there's not much you can do but offer him friendship, encouragment and a crisp "I told you so" in the future.

Good luck.
 
What you suggested would require effort and thought on his part. Being able to say he is in school will buy him some time before he actually has to perform.
 
Degrees help, they will help you get past HR. I can't say much for certifications though, because I don't have any experience with them. I have heard that if you have a lot of them, it raises red flags, though.

These things are not the magic piece of paper some people think they are. If you go to school only to get a piece of paper, it will show in your interviews. Those people end up in what is referred to as "middle management."

If you spend your time in school around others with the same talents, or talents that may complement your own, you will get better at what you do. After graduation, you may be looking for a job; your degree will get you past the HR dept. and get interviewed by the people you will be working directly under and directly alongside. It is inevitable that you will come across someone in one of these rooms you went to school with. What happens after that is dependent on how and why you spent your time in school.
 
jryan21 said:
Degrees help, they will help you get past HR. I can't say much for certifications though, because I don't have any experience with them. I have heard that if you have a lot of them, it raises red flags, though.

These things are not the magic piece of paper some people think they are. If you go to school only to get a piece of paper, it will show in your interviews. Those people end up in what is referred to as "middle management."

If you spend your time there around others with the same talents, or talents that may complement your own, you will get better at what you do. After graduation, you may be looking for a job; your degree will get you past the HR dept. and get interviewed by the people you will be working directly under and directly alongside. It is inevitable that you will come across someone in one of these rooms you went to school with. What happens after that is dependent on how and why you spent your time in school.
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I would say for typical business roles you are probably correct, but as someone who has put together more than one creative team from scratch I would say a degree or certificate or whatever has ZERO impact on a designer's qualifications.

I ALWAYS look at portfolios first. I don't care if a person didn't graduate from high school. If they are a shit hot designer who can communicate clearly then they have a much better shot at the job than some mediocre designer with big university/art school credentials. I've seen it again and again; kids who've spent small fortunes on the best art and film schools in the city who, after graduating, are really still just average. 20k in the hole with nothing more than a weak demo reel doesn't do you a whole lot of good.

So many times I received resumes from recruiters and HR for design rolls without portfolios attached or links to samples online and I just binned them. A designer that fails to send a portfolio when applying for a design roll needs to have their head examined. No portfolio = instant fail.

Oh, oh, OP... one other thing... any decent design school requires a portfolio to even get an interview to get in. It took me two tries over two years to get into the school I went to because they get 200-300 applicants each year and they only take in 20 students. You don't usually just decide you are going to "go" to design school, you have to qualify. Does he have such a thing?
 
i think it depends whether the person has a natural ability to design. if they're the type to put pink text on a blue background, then i think they would be better off going to school. if the person knows what quality design is, has a basic understanding of design concepts, and it's just a matter of learning a tool, then they would do fine teaching themselves. i don't think school will necessarily make someone a good designer though. design is creativity and creativity can't really be taught imo.
 
jenzkc said:
i think it depends whether the person has a natural ability to design. if they're the type to put pink text on a blue background, then i think they would be better off going to school.
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As I said above, if you are that clueless, you won't even get into the reputable art and design schools in Vancouver (Emily Carr, Kwantlan, Capilano, Vancouver Film School, etc.). You have to qualify for every one of them. There are some less desirable vocational schools that pretty much take all comers, but they are more expensive, have less qualified teachers, and turn out crappy graduates.
 
You can't "tell" people what to do..

Perhaps he's not really interested in learning anything at all, maybe he just wants to "go to school", like so many lemmings (sorry, couldn't resist), to hide from real life.

It's much more fun to parade around for several years, on mommy and daddy's dime, while you're an "artist studying at school", not having to worry about life.

It's not easy for a lot of people to study at their own pace, with limited instruction, and limited input by someone else telling them what to do. Maybe your friend is such a person?

Honestly, you sound a little judgmental, as if because he was a mechanic, he's not capable or worthy of desiring to be a graphic designer. I judge my friends decision too, but in the end you gotta live and let live..

if he does poorly in school you can know in your heart you probably gave him the better advice. If he does well, then everyone is happy..
 
some people can just teach themselves, some people have to be taught. most of us probably fall into the teach ourselves category. he obviously falls in the other. you're not an asshole for suggesting a workaround but then neither is he for his reaction. a bit of understanding might not go amiss here, the dudes probably taken a massive hit confidence wise with the layoff and all. i'd let him do his own thing and just be a mate if needed.
 
Thank you guys for your in depth responses, I don't feel bad anymore.

I just called him a few hours ago about possibly going to a car show tomorrow with me and a few of my friends, and he reluctantly said yes. He is still acting like a giant baby about what I said, either way I am still going to go sit in my future Ferrari tomorrow ;)

erect said:
1. people don't like honesty, they live in la la land
2. assholes are usually right when they are being honest
3. people respect assholes in the long run because of their honesty

It truly takes a real man to always tell the truth ... you fucking asshole
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Thanks, I'm pretty sure that if he read this thread he would call you a dick for saying that, haha.

brianpaxton said:
Honestly, you sound a little judgmental, as if because he was a mechanic, he's not capable or worthy of desiring to be a graphic designer. I judge my friends decision too, but in the end you gotta live and let live..
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I am judgmental, he wants to pay thousands for something that can be dirt cheap when a little bit of dicipline is added into the mix.
 
Tell him he's a fucking retard and that if he thinks of your well verse advice as something that makes you an asshole without even checking it out, then he does not deserve to be your friend and he should go fuck himself.
 
I think your advice was fine.

However, he IS more likely to get the $$$ from his parents telling them he is going to school.

Saying "I need 10K$ ++++ for school." will go down well.
Stating "Gimme 10K$ +++ for a new computer, triple monitors and a few books so I can teach myself" doesn't work a lot of the time (I know it is stupid)

Best thing to do would be to not drop him, but to get him on the sites AGAIN when he is in school. Also show him some ways to make money doing design.

That way he will get experience dealing with clients and building a portfolio.

::emp::
 
Your friend is an idiot. There is no reasoning with those sort of people, their iq's are just too low to comprehend
 
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