Can someone more intellegnt please help with this



It is a check/balance. Geithner is saying he would rather spend as much as he wants/needs without having to ask congress to increase the limit.

The republicans try to get whatever they want in exchance for increasing the debt limit.

The debt limit is not the actual debt amount. Just because they don't want a limit on it doesn't mean they want the debt amount to be unlimited.

It's like the credit limit on a credit card. Just because you have it doesn't mean you are going to use it.
 
bluecoyote said:
is debt even real???
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Keep going down that path and you will step through the other side of the looking glass.

Money, and debt are not real. They are promised potential.

The debt goverment's have isn't even printed money. It is just zeros on a computer. And you can't impound the assets of a government to collect debt, so it is virtually un collectable if they don't pay.

The people behind massive international debts are few. They are all in a massive web of borrowing. They all benefit by keeping it going. None of them benefit by calling in the chips, so you go figure when that will happen.

It is like if you owe me $10k. You don't have the money to pay even the interest which are $100/month. So instead you pay me $50/month. Well, if I have no way of collecting other than receiving the $50 you pay me, do you think I'm going to let you default on the debt when it reaches $20k? Hell no, I'll gladly take your $50 ad infinitum.
 
r3p1v said:
It's like the credit limit on a credit card. Just because you have it doesn't mean you are going to use it.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Have you ever read a public sector budget? Basically they go something like this "I recommend we use the full allocated budget" all the way across the board.
 
r3p1v said:
It is a check/balance. Geithner is saying he would rather spend as much as he wants/needs without having to ask congress to increase the limit.

The republicans try to get whatever they want in exchance for increasing the debt limit.

The debt limit is not the actual debt amount. Just because they don't want a limit on it doesn't mean they want the debt amount to be unlimited.

It's like the credit limit on a credit card. Just because you have it doesn't mean you are going to use it.
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this is funny

just because the goverment has unlimited credit won't mean they wont use it :)
 
r3p1v said:
The debt limit is not the actual debt amount. Just because they don't want a limit on it doesn't mean they want the debt amount to be unlimited.

It's like the credit limit on a credit card. Just because you have it doesn't mean you are going to use it.
Click to expand...

tumblr_mazovfGNqv1qcnzaso4_250.gif
 
greenleaves said:
Keep going down that path and you will step through the other side of the looking glass.

Money, and debt are not real. They are promised potential.

The debt goverment's have isn't even printed money. It is just zeros on a computer. And you can't impound the assets of a government to collect debt, so it is virtually un collectable if they don't pay.

The people behind massive international debts are few. They are all in a massive web of borrowing. They all benefit by keeping it going. None of them benefit by calling in the chips, so you go figure when that will happen.

It is like if you owe me $10k. You don't have the money to pay even the interest which are $100/month. So instead you pay me $50/month. Well, if I have no way of collecting other than receiving the $50 you pay me, do you think I'm going to let you default on the debt when it reaches $20k? Hell no, I'll gladly take your $50 ad infinitum.
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this is true BUT you probably won't keep lending me more money.

so if the debt of the U.S. goverment reaches 40 trillion

does this matter??? since it will never be paid.

I would speculate this would somehow impact normal hard working middle class somehow since they usually get screwed
 
LOL only a matter of time before the Fed lowers interest rates below 0%
 
jellyfish said:
Have you ever read a public sector budget? Basically they go something like this "I recommend we use the full allocated budget" all the way across the board.
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Yup, that's basic incentives. Anyone who has to deal with a budget handed down in the workplace, you know how this works.

If you stay under budget, your budget will decrease next cycle.

If you stay at, or just go over budget, your budget will increase next cycle.


This is similar to the fucked up incentives of government.

In the private economy, if you do good, you make more money.

In the public sector, if you do good, your department gets smaller.


In the private economy, if you do bad, you go broke.

In the public sector, if you do bad, you get more resources and power.


So knowing this, we quickly realize government has no incentive to solve any problem.
 
r3p1v said:
It is a check/balance. Geithner is saying he would rather spend as much as he wants/needs without having to ask congress to increase the limit.

The republicans try to get whatever they want in exchance for increasing the debt limit.

The debt limit is not the actual debt amount. Just because they don't want a limit on it doesn't mean they want the debt amount to be unlimited.

It's like the credit limit on a credit card. Just because you have it doesn't mean you are going to use it.
Click to expand...

You do realize Governments ALWAYS max out their budget? In fact, they generally go over; hense why they need to raise the debt ceiling every year.

BTW, it is ok to be ignorant, but being ignorant and believing you know at the same time is dangerous.
 
So when our rates go up, the lenders will begin to set more and more stipulations on the money they lend us. IE, we will in effect lose our sovereignty.

In the case of default, if we just say F off to them about increasing taxes to an exuberant amount or something and funneling the money to them, well wars have been started over much less. And how do you pay for a war when no one will lend you money? Those things are expensive.
 
bluecoyote said:
this is true BUT you probably won't keep lending me more money.

so if the debt of the U.S. goverment reaches 40 trillion

does this matter??? since it will never be paid.

I would speculate this would somehow impact normal hard working middle class somehow since they usually get screwed
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If you ask to borrow a few hundred, I'd likely pay it to you (I'm getting $600/year, if I had to give you $200 to survive, I would). You are basically my slave in this position. I don't need the numbers to line up, I just need you to keep PAYING ME the largest possible % of what you produce.
 
It's not a budget, it's a limit.

You can't spend infinite dollars anyway lul

I never said it was a good idea btw
 
When lenders dry up, interest rates for treasury bonds will rise. That will put enormous pressure on the government to make their maintenance payments on the debt.

This is not going to end well.
 
The whole debt-ceiling/no debt-ceiling argument is like telling a coke addict, "You're limited to 365 grams of cocaine on credit this year." The problem is he keeps going over the limit and wants more blow.

You argue with your co-suppliers about upping the guy's limit and finally someone suggests, "Fuck the limit. Just give him whatever he wants. He has been paying the juice on what he owes." You decide to go with it. Of course you've forgotten that the former partners of the guy who suggested the removal of the limit receive a percentage of the cocaine volume moved each day.

Quickly he is snorting enough nose candy to finance a new N.S.A super computer and not long after he has blown his brains out on the powder.

In the initial situation, our friendly dealers created the illusion of control by limiting the coke-head's access to his drug of choice. But, unless the addict changed his habits, he was going to screw up his life further and be dead sooner than later regardless. The removal of the limits only allowed the true nature of the beast to be shown - an out of control, irresponsible, unaccountable fool addicted to what others gave him. It just sped up the inevitable.
 
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