FINALLY success with AM!!

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Scito

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Jan 2, 2007
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The Netherlands
... all thanks to WF!

I've been a big lurker here for quite some time, really read a lot and... Read more and... just read more, but never took action thinking it wouldn't work localized (meaning doing the thing you guys do in the US, I'd want to do it in the Netherlands).

A couple days ago I received a free voucher for adwords so I thought, what the heck let's try something... I took a very original niche (ringtones :D), made a pretty php script to give me couple 1000 keywords related to ringtones (and all synonyms of it, also couple hundreds based on x-mas ringtones) with the knowledge I got from here (buy-keywords, good ad text, ...), setup a campaign, got a landings page made and started it.

Got 15 (euro)cent clicks and got around 80 clicks the first day. Second day I got 54 clicks and I stopped the campaign then. Why? Because I didn't see any sales getting in (using TradeDoubler). Yesterday I checked TradeDoubler again, seeing I made 6 sales which equals 45 euro (about $66) for 2 days, ROI of about 150%! Pretty killing I'd say. So I started up the campaign again =)!

My last question is really, my conversion rate is ~4%, which is pretty low I'd say, on the other hand my clicks are really cheap so I could care less, but for the record, what are regular conversion rates on ringtone offers in the US?

Just want to say a BIG THANK YOU to all of you contributers and to give something back, here's the (really basic) PHP file I used to pump out my keywords, it's not the best but it works well for me... Try it :)

Code:
<?php

//General keywords
$keywords = array('ring tone','ringtone','ringtones','ring tones','realtones','real tones','real tone','realtone','real ringtones','realringtones','mp3 ringtone','mp3 ringtones','ringtone mp3','ringtone mp3s','echte ringtone','echte ringtones','ringtoon');

//Extra additions (christmas, artist name, carriername, ...), mind the space after each term
$add = array('mariah carey ','all i want for christmas ','want for christmas ','mariah carey christmas ','mariah carey all i want for christmas ','maria carey ','mariah cary '); // met spatie op einde

foreach($keywords as $keyword) {

    foreach($add as $extra) {

        //echo $extra .'<br /><br />';

        echo $extra . $keyword .'<br />';

        echo $extra . $keyword .' kopen<br />';
        echo $extra . $keyword .' bestellen<br />';
        echo $extra . $keyword .' downloaden<br />';
        echo 'buy '. $extra . $keyword .'<br />';
        echo 'order '. $extra . $keyword .'<br />';
        echo 'download '. $extra . $keyword .'<br />';
        echo 'free '. $extra . $keyword .'<br />';

    }

}

?>
 


Congrats buddy!
Im glad to hear it.
I still suck at all this stuff, but I'm trying... I wish I knew PHP better. Not a day goes by when I don't say "Damnit, I NEED to know PHP!" lol

But I'm glad to see you got something done and made some money.

As for ROI, I think ~4% is pretty badass... Maybe someone that actually knows their head from their ass will chime in and correct me if I am wrong, but I think in general, unless you just got lucky and hit a jackpot, it's usually around ~2%

So good job.
 
It actually depends on your bid values and position - I've been as high as 10% and as low as 1%. If it works it works - no matter the CR. Considering that you are probably somewhere in the 0.3-0.5 range I would say 4% conversion rate is pretty damn good! Your next step should be increasing the volume. You can do that by adding some high volume keywords. Mind you, this will have a negative impact on your margins as you start pushing for generic k-words. So add a couple at a time and dont go too high in the rankings. The trick is to find that perfect mix of generic and longtail that maximizes the margin you get. I would also go to Tier two guys - some of those have pretty strong ringtone traffic. Good job though!
 
2-4% is normal. I tested bidding for the #1 spot in Google for "ringtones, free ringtones, verizon ringtones, etc" and saw a conversion rate around there.
 
Thanks for the responses so far.

The thing is, my position is around #7-8, my CTR for the 3 days I've had the campaign up is 2%... Conversion rate as I said is ~4%.

The bad thing about only doing this on national base is that the volume isn't great. I already do have some generic keywords in ('ringtoon' is dutch for 'ringtone', the term 'ringtone' itsself) and I manage to hold position #10 with the same CPC for those generic names. The volume however, as I said before, still isn't great...

Another thing I'm having problems with is tracking which keywords convert and which don't. My site setup is as follow:
Landing page -> Select Carrier -> Page with i-frame with the LP of Celldorado in it.

TradeDoubler doesn't support another parameter to their URL for tracking (as far as I'm aware of)... I can add the GClickID to the link people go to after clicking the add, I can track if they go to the next page (about 65% clicks to the next page), but there it stops... Any suggestions?
 
Hello to everyone from Mexico. I'm starting to learn about SEO and I haven't heard about PHP. Can you tell me the basics about PHP? Thank you for your help.
 
Hello to everyone from Mexico. I'm starting to learn about SEO and I haven't heard about PHP. Can you tell me the basics about PHP? Thank you for your help.

Hello Gamma,

PHP is an acronym for Hypertext Preprocessor and it's an advanced form of HTML.

BTW, If you have a separate question than what's being discussed, you should probably post it over in the newbie section :)
 
Thanks for the responses so far.

The thing is, my position is around #7-8, my CTR for the 3 days I've had the campaign up is 2%... Conversion rate as I said is ~4%.

The bad thing about only doing this on national base is that the volume isn't great. I already do have some generic keywords in ('ringtoon' is dutch for 'ringtone', the term 'ringtone' itsself) and I manage to hold position #10 with the same CPC for those generic names. The volume however, as I said before, still isn't great...

Another thing I'm having problems with is tracking which keywords convert and which don't. My site setup is as follow:
Landing page -> Select Carrier -> Page with i-frame with the LP of Celldorado in it.

TradeDoubler doesn't support another parameter to their URL for tracking (as far as I'm aware of)... I can add the GClickID to the link people go to after clicking the add, I can track if they go to the next page (about 65% clicks to the next page), but there it stops... Any suggestions?
Code:
http://clkuk.tradedoubler.com/click?p(123)a(456)g(789)url(www)epi(Sub_id_goes_here)

Or epi= if you use their other link style.
 
...
Another thing I'm having problems with is tracking which keywords convert and which don't. My site setup is as follow:
Landing page -> Select Carrier -> Page with i-frame with the LP of Celldorado in it.
Why dont you use the SE's native pixel tracking. Most of the US ringtone providers will be glad to plop your pixel on their "thank you" page. I would assume its the same thing with EU.
 
also just to be safe you should confirm the use of iframes, i know a good proportion of offers in general dont allow iframes - just to be safe in case they pull the plug on u
 
Why dont you use the SE's native pixel tracking. Most of the US ringtone providers will be glad to plop your pixel on their "thank you" page. I would assume its the same thing with EU.

Hm, that's a pretty cool idee, I'll have a look... Thing is, affiliate networks in the EU are far worse than the US... For example, it takes THREE days for TradeDoubler support to get back to me... That's pretty bad in my opinion, but it's simply due to the fact there's only TWO decent networks here in the Netherlands with offers...

About the i-frame thing, it was tradedoubler suggesting me to do so, so I can assume it's OK :x...
 
Additionally ... and this is the most ineffective solution and is liable to generate reporting hell for you, but I must admit i was forced to use it a couple of times. - Break up your keywords into smaller adgroups with the same copy, but deliver those to different URL sub id's (at least providers should give you THAT option). You can group keywords any way you want to as there is no real standard behind this - just whatever is easier for you. I would recommend though, that you place high volume keywords in their own unique adgroups thus allowing for better tracking on the high spending units. In the mean time, aggregate all the low traffic ones (you should have thousands of those) into just one or two groups. My idea behind it was - the higher the traffic on a keyword the less of those keywords in one adgroup. So when you check reporting on the providers side you will see how each keyword grouping performed. Again, this is not the best form of tracking, but it should give you some sort of control over your margins when no other way is available.


Fuck!!! I just reread my post and it sounds like a drunken, wild ramble on nothing in particular. Oh well... here it goes
 
Code:
<?php

//General keywords
$keywords = array('ring tone','ringtone','ringtones','ring tones','realtones','real tones','real tone','realtone','real ringtones','realringtones','mp3 ringtone','mp3 ringtones','ringtone mp3','ringtone mp3s','echte ringtone','echte ringtones','ringtoon');

//Extra additions (christmas, artist name, carriername, ...), mind the space after each term
$add = array('mariah carey ','all i want for christmas ','want for christmas ','mariah carey christmas ','mariah carey all i want for christmas ','maria carey ','mariah cary '); // met spatie op einde

foreach($keywords as $keyword) {

    foreach($add as $extra) {

        //echo $extra .'<br /><br />';

        echo $extra . $keyword .'<br />';

        echo $extra . $keyword .' kopen<br />';
        echo $extra . $keyword .' bestellen<br />';
        echo $extra . $keyword .' downloaden<br />';
        echo 'buy '. $extra . $keyword .'<br />';
        echo 'order '. $extra . $keyword .'<br />';
        echo 'download '. $extra . $keyword .'<br />';
        echo 'free '. $extra . $keyword .'<br />';

    }

}

?>

Ok I'm not 100% sure what the identical use of these terms are for or where on the landing page your using them or whatever but I'm surprised no one else noticed the word "free" in here.

These days the word "free" and "ringtone" is like saying "ass rape" and "bubba" because you will get ass raped from your networks for using the word "free" alongside a ringtone offer and the FBI will make sure that bubba will ass rape you if you continually abuse the word free alongside ringtone hahaha.

But then again you said you were not from the US or Canada so your laws may be completely different on the subject.
 
Ok I'm not 100% sure what the identical use of these terms are for or where on the landing page your using them or whatever but I'm surprised no one else noticed the word "free" in here.

These days the word "free" and "ringtone" is like saying "ass rape" and "bubba" because you will get ass raped from your networks for using the word "free" alongside a ringtone offer and the FBI will make sure that bubba will ass rape you if you continually abuse the word free alongside ringtone hahaha.

But then again you said you were not from the US or Canada so your laws may be completely different on the subject.

If I am not mistaken you can actually bid on keywords such as "Free Ringtones". As long as your adcopy/header/title/creative/any-other-piece-of-your-content has no references to getting anything for free your are golden. Otherwise, as Aequitas said - no good!!!. I'd even suggest stocking up on some lube...
 
...

Another thing I'm having problems with is tracking which keywords convert and which don't. My site setup is as follow:
Landing page -> Select Carrier -> Page with i-frame with the LP of Celldorado in it.

TradeDoubler doesn't support another parameter to their URL for tracking (as far as I'm aware of)... I can add the GClickID to the link people go to after clicking the add, I can track if they go to the next page (about 65% clicks to the next page), but there it stops... Any suggestions?


I'm no expert, but with PHP you should be able to capture the keywords the searcher typed in by passing it to your web page. In adwords, assign a numeric value to every keyword. That value is passed to your page when you get the click. Build a small database on your host that accepts that value and then matches it up with a unique ID which you then pass to the celldorado page.

For example:

In adwords the search string "buy bananarama ringtone" is given the value of 14113. You can do this very easily in the adwords interface. So when the searcher clicks something like this is passed as the url: "w(dot)mysite(dot)co n?p=14113+%20blah+?j=blahblah+blah"

Your PHP script grabs that number, sends it to the database which looks approximately like this:

INBOUND | OUTBOUND
1 | myaffiliatelink+uniquecodealpha
2 | myaffiliatelink+uniquecodebeta
etc
etc
etc
14113 | myaffiliatelink+uniquecodegammagammaalpha


etc

So at tradedoubler you just creat a unique code for each keyword.

Yes, it's a pain in the ass and takes a bit of work, but it would, in theory, allow you to track every single keyword for every click and every single conversion by keyword. And if you do this right, it keeps ANYONE but you from knowing which keywords are converting.

Google doesn't know because your page strips out the search term and you don't need to use their conversion tracking (which is ridiculously hard with the affiliate networks anyway)
The searcher doesn't care
the network doesn't know because you have unique but nonsense ids for each keyword, rather than passing the keyword itself
Celldorado doesn't know because all they get is the nonsense tracking code with your affiliate link.

Sorry for the long reply. Let me know if you need more detail.
 
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