Fully Privatized Healthcare

brandonbaker

brandonbaker

Member
Jan 10, 2011
576
3
18
New York City
Call me naive, but I struggle to understand why a fully privatized healthcare system wouldn't work. It's absurd to me how millions of Americans are at the whim of insurance when a simple a la carte system would seem to work much better.

When we want a haircut, we don't show our haircut insurance card that we pay premiums for every month. We just get a haircut. Pay when you need it.

Competition is at the heart of innovation, and the insurance system strips the healthcare industry of that competition. If 100 doctors in your city all had to compete for that next heart transplant, I guarantee you prices for medical procedures would hit their true value. None of this insurance bullshit.

Obviously changing the current system to a fully privatized one would be a near-impossible task, but in theory, why wouldn't it work?
 


You're right. It would work. Government has really mucked things up. Insurance is supposed to cover catastrophic events where no one knows in advance who will benefit and who will lose. It's not supposed to cover routine care. People can pay for that themselves.

Here's a surgery clinic that doesn't take insurance or government money. Check how low the prices are. With more competition, they would be even lower!

Procedures | Surgery Center of Oklahoma

This free market surgery center is in NYC. The prices are somewhat higher. They also don't take insurance.

Regency Healthcare Pricing - Regency Healthcare

And here's a urgent care clinic in LA with transparent pricing:

Hollywood Walk-In Clinic - Services

As people start to realize that they aren't getting much of deal with Obamacare's high premiums and sky-high deductibles, they will start to shop around. The standard visit at the Hollywood clinic is only $70. With the bronze Obamacare plan, the co-pay for an urgent care visit is $120!

This guy own's the surgery center in the first link:

G. Keith Smith, M.D.

Keith Smith argues that health care is actually pretty cheap. You can get most of the surgeries at his clinic for the price of the annual $6000 deductible on Obamacare bronze plans. The prices are all-inclusive, including anesthesia. There's no extras. No surprises. He cuts costs because the doctors own the facility and don't need a staff to file insurance paperwork. Neither do they have administrators.
 
Forgot one thing: Hospitals are a big part of the scam. Non-profit hospitals lobbied for special tax deals. They have to show losses to maintain their non-profit status. That's why they charge outrageous prices for emergency room visits. They know full well they won't get all of the money. They need those paper losses. What most people don't know is that hospitals get back part of those paper losses each year from the federal government, so they make money even when they lose it.

Keith Smith, MD likes to point out that hospitals like to complain about the losses they take on their emergency rooms but they always seem to be adding new wings to their hospitals. The system is as crooked as the day is long.
 
brandonbaker said:
Call me naive, but I struggle to understand why a fully privatized healthcare system wouldn't work. It's absurd to me how millions of Americans are at the whim of insurance when a simple a la carte system would seem to work much better.

When we want a haircut, we don't show our haircut insurance card that we pay premiums for every month. We just get a haircut. Pay when you need it.

Competition is at the heart of innovation, and the insurance system strips the healthcare industry of that competition. If 100 doctors in your city all had to compete for that next heart transplant, I guarantee you prices for medical procedures would hit their true value. None of this insurance bullshit.

Obviously changing the current system to a fully privatized one would be a near-impossible task, but in theory, why wouldn't it work?
Click to expand...

I use private healthcare. I don't have insurance. Last time I had surgery was fucking never, unless you count stitches. I have perfect blood pressure. My dental cost are about $150 a year(cleaning takes a while). My medical, $90, would be less with less regulation. I had to get antibiotics for a shellfish infection this year. I knew what it was, i told the doc(private practice doc), i told him what anti's I needed. They cost a whole $6. Should have skipped that part and told the pharmacy. They are the one who are responsible for the meds anyway.

Sorry but im not paying for people who don't take care of themselves. I have to draw the line somewhere. Fucking idiots need to stop breeding. Notice how these poor idiots have like 20 kids, then smart / successful people have like 1-2? Pay for the college, educate and nurture them. Then the idiots expect everything for free, don't pay for shit and become a crust on society. Get ready for more of this shit.

/rant
 
brandonbaker said:
Competition is at the heart of innovation, and the insurance system strips the healthcare industry of that competition. If 100 doctors in your city all had to compete for that next heart transplant, I guarantee you prices for medical procedures would hit their true value. None of this insurance bullshit.
Click to expand...

It would make good heart transplantists get all the rich customers and thats ideologically inacceptable. And the government would give up part of its monopoly on who gets to live and who doesnt. welcome to your world.
 
brandonbaker said:
It's absurd to me how millions of Americans are at the whim of insurance when a simple a la carte system would seem to work much better.
Click to expand...
Because there are many procedures on an a la carte system that would be financially ruinous for most people. They'd wind up either not getting them, or defaulting on payments - neither of which helps support a thriving medical industry, or is good for society in general. Insurance for these things is a necessity.

Insurance to cover low-cost, routine stuff isn't necessary, but providing that coverage is a great sales tool for the insurance companies. A $250/month policy that covers everything is significantly easier to sell than a $200/month policy that covers only catastrophic medical events.
 
I have a good friend who is a Chiropractor. About 5 years ago and he stopped accepting insurance. It took about a year to get his practice back where it was, but he is able to charge a great deal less than before and his overhead down significantly.

Now his business is thriving. He can charge what most folks have as their copay, and those without insurance are flocking to his practice.
 
Woah there now...

Then what would happen to massive insurance industry profits?

Everyone knows this shit is all a fraud.

All Obama's plan did was FORCE you to buy insurance.

SEE: Car insurance. (You have to buy that shit).

Basically everyone in the US got fucked over again.

You're locked in now and no one can do shit.
 
MaxSteve said:
Because there are many procedures on an a la carte system that would be financially ruinous for most people. They'd wind up either not getting them, or defaulting on payments - neither of which helps support a thriving medical industry, or is good for society in general. Insurance for these things is a necessity.

Insurance to cover low-cost, routine stuff isn't necessary, but providing that coverage is a great sales tool for the insurance companies. A $250/month policy that covers everything is significantly easier to sell than a $200/month policy that covers only catastrophic medical events.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's what I assumed. Someone could get in an accident that isn't even their fault, and since they don't have a couple hundred thousand in cash ready to pay for an expensive procedure the doctor just tells them "too bad, you're gonna die."

Usually I'm all for telling people to fuck off and take responsibility for their own lives, but something like this would just be ridiculous.
 
If we had an actual free market, health insurance would be dirt cheap and almost anyone would be able to afford it. Our health care industry has been butt fucked by the government since the 60s.
 
A local newspaper (Columbus Dispatch) did a survey of the actual costs of MRIs in my area.


The price ranged from $150 to $2500 for an MRI. They found that all the machines in the end were compatible.

The difference? The ones in the $1500-$2500 range all took government payments (Medicare, medicaid, ect)

The ones that were in the $150-$350 range did not accept any governmental insurance.
 
BigWill said:
I use private healthcare. I don't have insurance. Last time I had surgery was fucking never, unless you count stitches. I have perfect blood pressure. My dental cost are about $150 a year(cleaning takes a while). My medical, $90, would be less with less regulation. I had to get antibiotics for a shellfish infection this year. I knew what it was, i told the doc(private practice doc), i told him what anti's I needed. They cost a whole $6. Should have skipped that part and told the pharmacy. They are the one who are responsible for the meds anyway.

Sorry but im not paying for people who don't take care of themselves. I have to draw the line somewhere. Fucking idiots need to stop breeding. Notice how these poor idiots have like 20 kids, then smart / successful people have like 1-2? Pay for the college, educate and nurture them. Then the idiots expect everything for free, don't pay for shit and become a crust on society. Get ready for more of this shit.

/rant
Click to expand...

Don't you ever worry about being in a car accident that requires you to be life flighted, spend 5 hours in an ER, etc?
 
Does anyone know the historical origins of insurance? I get that it is something we all for the most part accept but how did it become the status quo?



Little things like being quoted more than the value of your car as a yearly car insurance payment irk me.
 
Part of the high cost of medical care is also malpractice insurance for doctors. Buddy of mine who is a surgeon pays over $150,000 a year just for it.

In other words from January - April he is working just so he'll be okay in case he gets sued. After that the IRS...
 
Last week I found out one of the emergency services places here is actually more than that. They are run by one of the family practices and have a monthly plan that lets you use their services, without fee, for most basic things. It's $100 for a family of four, and $30 per child on the plan after that.

Considering I pay that much per month for the health club we rarely go to anymore, I think that's really reasonable. Actually, it's really cheap, but this is Idaho so everything here is less expensive than most places.

Their plan gives you access to the urgent care facility and the family practice. The plan covers:

-Family Care (sick and wellness visits)

-Allergy Testing

-Colds/Coughs/Flu

-Broken Bones

-X-Rays

-Preventative Medicine

-Diabetes

-High Blood Pressure

-Cholesterol Problems

-Infections

-Abdominal Pain

-Hormone Management

-Sports, BLM/DOT Physicals

-Eye Injury

-Women’s/Men’s Health

-Rashes/Insect Bites

-Lacerations

SERVICES NOT COVERED:

-Most Lab Tests (~$15.00 per test)

-Generic Prescriptions (~$10.00 each)

-Radiologist X-Ray Interpretations

-Drug Tests

-Pace Physicals
Click to expand...

I tried to get my dad and grandfather (when he was still alive) to start something like this together. Glad to see it came to fruition somewhere
 
brandonbaker said:
Obviously changing the current system to a fully privatized one would be a near-impossible task, but in theory, why wouldn't it work?
Click to expand...


It would work fine. But there are (at least) 3 obstacles:

1 - ignorance of the proletariat regarding economics. Few people understand how goods and services are priced, how prices adjust, and how government intervention disrupts the price mechanism. Fewer still can be bothered to learn about such things.

2 - religion of the statist. (i.e. "The government exists to promote the common good.") The belief system of the statist allows him to mourn the death of an American, but cheer the slaughter of foreigners. It is closely linked to tribalism.

3 - a system of voting that allows free riders to vote unto themselves the property of others (democracy). In a fully privatized health care market, you would pay for the goods you receive. In our current system, you would force others to pay for the goods you receive.

Regarding the last point, forcibly socializing the cost of goods - i.e. spreading the cost among a large group of people, thereby lowering said cost for each person - tends to reduce resistance. It also conceals the immorality of forcing people to hand over monies under threat of violence.

To use an extreme example, let's say 3 of your neighbors came to your door and demanded cash to build a park for their kids. While they may not carry weapons, they make it clear that should you resist, they will put you in a cage.

Now let's say those 3 neighbors band together and vote for a ruler who taxes you for the purpose of raising cash to build a park for your neighbors' kids. If you resist, you will be fined and possibly put in a cage.

Same results, different method. Both use a threat of violence. Both are immoral. But one approach - socializing costs, typically through taxation - allows the morally and intellectually bankrupt to obfuscate their offense.


One note regarding insurance: it is a good that would likely be in demand in a fully-privatized market. It would allow a group of people to pool their money, share risk and lower their costs. The key, of course, is that the provision of insurance would be done on a voluntary basis (on both sides of the transaction).
 
What I don't understand is the countries that have public healthcare, with the choice of private if you want to go that way, the people are extremely happy with the way their system works. As far as I can see NO ONE is or has been happy the way the system works in the US. I just don't get the issue, it seems its a political game using the peoples fears and insecurities as pawns to further their agenda.

The costs of receiving healthcare in the states in no way reflects the premium in prices you pay.
 
schockergd said:
Maybe he has car insurance?
Click to expand...

Most people don't carry medical coverage on their car insurance policies (that I know of anyways).

My point was that there are a lot of things that can happen to you regardless of how physically healthy you are that would make you go broke or spend a very large sum of money. I've seen medical bills ruin peoples lives. I'm sure we all have. Awaiting arguments on how it's their fault that they didn't have a larger savings to cover their $500k in medical bills.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom