Life Lessons after 4 years as a CPA advertiser

mont7071

WF Premium Member
Feb 10, 2009
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Portland, OR USA
So looking at stats this morning, I see that tomorrow marks the 4th year anniversary of my muscle offer as a CPA/free trial offer. I *think* it is the longest continuously running offer in the space (I don't count Force Factor, since they shut down their affiliate program for months at a time and coast on retail sales). Add to that some skin offers, domestic and int'l, than have been running for several years themselves, and I figure I'm qualified to offer a few hard-earned observations on the industry. I feel like I've been doing this for a decade, its been a tough grind. So, a few observations:

1) CPA/continuity offers are going to change, or die - Long gone are the days of eazy 2-step flogs with remnant banner/Pulse360 traffic being instant ROI. No, I never ran that way , but I've seen enough of them come and go to feel pretty confident in saying those days are coming to an end, and the sooner the better. FTC/AGs are the 2nd biggest threat to them. Visa/MC are the First.

I can think of probably 100+ offers I've seen come and go, some making a huge splash briefly, that ultimately lost their MIDs and vanished, often leaving lots of unpaid networks and affiliates in their wake. Once you can't process with Visa or MC with your first merchant account, you die, simple as that. Increased focus on chargeback rates, and detailed language about how negative option must be disclosed (Hint: you can't bury your T&C on a diff page, use pre-checked boxes, and rebill 3 days later for 4 different offers they never saw). There is a storm coming, and Visa/MC are going to wipe out a lot of unprepared offers. Even offshore MIDs are only temporarily going to protect new guys to the space with chargeback rates above 1%, and it is reaaalllyy hard to stay under that rate for any continuity offer even running super-legit. Newcomers thinking they are going to cash in and keep their processing? Meh, they don't have a chance.

FTC/AG concerns were largely ignored by the actual affiliates pushing these offers for years, for good reason: They typically only came after the Advertisers (Offer Owners) themselves, with an occasional wrist-slap of the Networks involved if their behavior was too far over the line. That's changed now too. Most of the big networks have been recipients of CIDs and fines, and had to agree to stringent new terms, to stay in business. Coincidentally, most of those Networks now only have a fraction as many employees as they did a few years ago. This is why so many of the Networks that built their staffs on the revenue from CPA trial offers back in the day now wont even run them at all. Affiliates are being sued individually, and losing their cash, cars, and houses for their behavior. Add in some angry lawyers representing famous people (who don't like seeing their face used to sling berriez), and you have a much different and scarier environment than it was 4 years ago, before all the bad guys gave the industry a huge black eye. If you are thinking of getting into space now with no processing history, no retail presence, and no clue how the new regulations will affect you because you think it will be easy money? One word of advice: Don't.

Next up: #2, It's all about the numbers....
 
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I have 1 question about affs running CPS/Continuity offers. (I've never done any huge numbers in continuitity offers at all)

but isn't flog (farticle/"Journal" type LPs these days) the way affilaites promote these kind of offers anyway? (Still)
 
I have 1 question about affs running CPS/Continuity offers. (I've never done any huge numbers in continuity offers at all)

but isn't flog (farticle/"Journal" type LPs these days) the way affiliates promote these kind of offers anyway? (Still)

Some do, but its less prevalent now, simply because the sources of traffic have dried up a lot., Used to be, you could do a "review site" (the more tame precursor to flogs/farticles) throw together a PPC campaign on Google Adwords, and make a decent ROI. Then Google decided their PPC didn't need affiliate's money anyways ("Quality-Score"). so people went to the banner exchanges. That got old/nonprofitable, so then the remnant/RTB and media brokers/sellers came up (Chitika, Pulse360, Adblade, Quigo etc) where you could buy remnant/ROS space on big sites like MSNBC and CNN, but they started cracking down compliance-wise on a lot of those 3rd-party served ads and drove many (not all) of them back into the shadows. The ice is melting under them, but some of those opportunities are still around, but at a much lower ROI than a year ago.

Currently, you'll still see some of it on FB, typically using cloaked accounts to churn and burn and send traffic to squeeze page landers in the flog/farticle/"lifestyle" format, but they have to be constantly updated as FB catches them. That is still profitable for people that have access to cloakers and enough FB accounts to make it worthwhile, but the ice is melting there too. You don't see many of them using these methods for straight sale/revshare offers though, most of them are still aimed at maximizing their return by pushing multiple CPA free trial offers.
 
so it's getting harder and harder day by day for affs to promote these kind of offers right?


more or less, the risks to affs vary a bit, and they tend to "lag" behind because it takes a while for these threats to work downstream, while the Advertisers usually see it sooner.

So, in Order of Risk:
Big Threats to Advertisers: Losing Processing/MIDs, FTC/AG, Fraud Traffic

Big Threats to Affiliates: Non-payment by Network/Advertiser, FTC/AG, Lack of Available Places to Get Traffic to Send to Offer


Some of these are inter-related obviously (fraud traffic from bad affs can kill a MID, FTC can start with the aff and work their way up to the Advertiser, or vice versa). One advantage affiliates have, in the short-term anyways, is that as soon as one Advertiser vanishes, there are dozens more eager ones waiting in the wings to get that traffic. Unfortunately, these are usually newer, and often shadier, ones that are going to go down even faster than the old ones. Affiliates are stuck bouncing from offer to offer, trying to split-test new offers constantly and praying the newest one doesnt leave them unpaid, rather than focusing on building up one long-term offer that pays them consistently month after month. More and more affs start gravitating towards the same few stable/good-paying offers, while traffic sources are drying u and getting expensive, so it becomes too many clicks fighting for too few decent offers.
 
And this is why you build an email list.

Mont1701 just wanted to say thanks for the real behind the scenes insider info. No hypothetical bullshit or regurgitated stuff but just real world insight into the biz.
 
At this point, with some traffic sources, it makes no sense to try to run shady campaigns, because getting canned is inevitable. Better learn to do things right, less headache in the end and profits for a much longer time without much maintenance either.
 
#2 - The Numberz (Affiliates)

For affiliates in the CPA game, the numbers are fairly straightforward: you invest in the traffic, send it to the Advertiser's offer, it converts at X%, you split-test (first your own traffic and copy, then between diff offers/networks), and it either backs out, or it doesn't. Biggest mistakes I see here are 1) that the the affiliate split tests between different offers/networks first, instead of of dialing in their own ad copy/lander/squeeze page first, they do it in reverse order. Moral of the story, you have to have your own game tight first before you start jumping from offer to offer over a buck higher CPA payout and start split-testing competing offers.

You have way more upside potential by testing and fixing the stuff YOU control, before you start saying "meh, this Advertiser's Offer sucks, I'm just going to switch over to Offer B with Network C and see if I make more". Wrong order of things; only after you have your ad copy tight, your media buys tested and optimized, then should you try to gain more upside by trying to change things on the "them" side,( like different offers/networks).

2) Once affiliates start testing different offers/networks , they put WAY too much focus on CPA payout amount. Standard scenario, you are getting paid $40 on diet offer X through Network A. Network B hits you up one day and says "yo, send your traffic over to our diet Offer Z, we'll pay out $45". Affiliate thinks "great, I'm going to make $5 more per sale, right?" WRONG
Payout CPA means jack-shit, EPC is king, here's why:

Say your traffic is costing you 25 cents a click from FB or banners or wherever. From your landing page, 80% of visitors bounce, and 20% of them continue on to whatever offer link you have there.
Scenario 1: On Offer X, you were converting at 10% on a free trial paying $40. So, if you bought 1000 clicks at a quarter each, you've spent $250. 20% of those clicks you paid for (200) continue on from your landing page to the Offer X site, of which a total of 20 people convert and buy (10% of 200). You just made $800 on a $250 ad spend, and your EPC on traffic sent to Offer X is $4.00 ($800/200)

Scenario 2: lured in by the sexy $45 CPA payout promised by Network B, you repoint all your links from Offer X over to Offer Z, and expect to make moar profits from the higher $45 payout. You buy the same 1000 clicks for $250 as before, you have the same bounce rate on your Lander, and you send the same 200 visitors over to Offer Z. But Offer Z isn't quite as well known maybe, or its lander isn't as well-tested as Offer X's was (hence why they are offering a higher payout), so it converts slightly less, 8% instead of 10%. No big deal you think, since you have that way higher payout of $45 vs $40 so 2% less shouldn't matter, right? Wrong..
Out of 200 people sent, now only 16 convert (8% of 200). You made $45 per conversion, so you have the same $250 in costs, with only $720 in revenue this time. Now your EPC is only $3.60. That "higher" $45 payout just cost you 10% of your profits. On highly competitive niches like diet, muscle, skin, a 10% margin can mean the difference between a total profit and a total loss.

Moral of the story, higher CPA payouts are great when you are comparing apples to apples, but can destroy your profits when you focus on what that # is vs what you are actually making for every click you send to an offer. I have Networks tell me about 3 times a week "Hey, can you raise your CPA payout, there is a new competing offer that is paying $3 more per conversion" Answer: NO, until their EPC is higher than mine, it isn't happening, and the guys that rush over to push the new offer for $3 more, usually end up coming back once they realize the true math.
 
This is awesome, thanks Mont!

I started up my own straight sale diet offer and just run my own traffic to it, and recently found out that my chargeback rate is 1.16%. I guess that's terrible for a straight sale offer but I've only run 6 figures monthly to it so far and I'm working to bring that rate down now.

Should I be panicking with a 1.16% chargeback rate? My MID hasn't said anything to make it sound alarming.

Also, I've been collecting a lot of partials but haven't mailed them anything as of yet. Everyone says having a list is a very valuable long term asset, but is it really? I'm just trying to gauge how well a huge list of partials really converts down the road sending them similar offers (assuming you can actually inbox). I mean if you have a 1 mil + list of partials are you going to bank for a long time assuming your traffic sources dried up?
 
Are SS's a problem runnin them adv*rtorial style or is it about how much volume you run? I'm curious to hear opinions and facts on this matter. I know trials are a big target on the radar but ss's are safe, right?
 
Top thread mont. This is exactly the sort of shit I'm here to read & learn about from someone with actual experience.
+rep
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Also, I've been collecting a lot of partials but haven't mailed them anything as of yet. Everyone says having a list is a very valuable long term asset, but is it really? I'm just trying to gauge how well a huge list of partials really converts down the road sending them similar offers (assuming you can actually inbox). I mean if you have a 1 mil + list of partials are you going to bank for a long time assuming your traffic sources dried up?

I'm far from an expert in this area, but I'm pretty sure you should be keeping your list warm by mailing them something. Mail them articles on dieting and exercise or a list of diet tips you jacked from other sites, or whatever, just mail them something to keep your list warm so that when you decide to monetize the list they're more likely to respond.
 
This is awesome, thanks Mont!

I started up my own straight sale diet offer and just run my own traffic to it, and recently found out that my chargeback rate is 1.16%. I guess that's terrible for a straight sale offer but I've only run 6 figures monthly to it so far and I'm working to bring that rate down now.

Should I be panicking with a 1.16% chargeback rate? My MID hasn't said anything to make it sound alarming.

Also, I've been collecting a lot of partials but haven't mailed them anything as of yet. Everyone says having a list is a very valuable long term asset, but is it really? I'm just trying to gauge how well a huge list of partials really converts down the road sending them similar offers (assuming you can actually inbox). I mean if you have a 1 mil + list of partials are you going to bank for a long time assuming your traffic sources dried up?


I agree with UG's statment about keeping your list "warm" until you are ready for a full-on monetization of it; it will keep your unsubs down in the future, help keep your IP off blacklist/filters in the future if you scale up your mailings through you own mail server, and basically make those people more likely to read & react when you really start to market to them in the future vs you spamming them out of the blue 10 months since they last heard from you, and dont remember who you are or why you have their email address.

I don't always practice what i preach on this topic though, I'm not great at keeping my past customer lists warm by emailing them nearly as often as I should, but its something I always promise myself I'm going to be better about.

The chargeback question fits neatly into my Part 2.2 of "All About the Numbers", more to follow.... :)