Mike Rowe is a solid dude.

boatBurner

shutup, crime!
Feb 24, 2012
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It's 2 years old, but it's a solid interview.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzKzu86Agg0[/ame]


Out of curiosity, how many here went to college and was it worth the investment?
 


Out of curiosity, how many here went to college and was it worth the investment?

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I went to college. I had a great time leveraging a built in social life to fuck 5 or 6 different girls a month.

There was a class or two involved somewhere during that time too, but I had different priorities.

No Ragrets, brah.

no-ragrets-1.jpg
 
Out of curiosity, how many here went to college and was it worth the investment?

The one thing that's pretty wild about student loans is when you get out of school and aren't making any money you can re-adjust your repayment plan based on your income at that time, and it doesn't change when you make more.

My buddy with a PHD and six figures in loans, was recently explaining how he only pays $100/mo for 20 years and then it's forgiven, based off his income.
 
It's 2 years old, but it's a solid interview.

Dirty Jobs' Mike Rowe on the High Cost of College (Full Interview) - YouTube


Out of curiosity, how many here went to college and was it worth the investment?

It certainly helped Mr Rowe and was worth his investment.

Mike Rowe graduated from Towson University with a degree in communication studies.

“I remember leaving Towson feeling like there was a whole bunch of things that might be possible for me that weren’t possible before I got there,” Rowe continued.
TU celebrates 50th Anniversary of Forensics Program | News

Like most things in life, you get back what you put into it. College is no different. I absolutely loved it.
 
Out of curiosity, how many here went to college and was it worth the investment?

I went to Carnegie Mellon for Computer Science for a year before taking an extended leave of absence to start what I've been doing now for the past 4 years. I am both glad I went there and glad I took a leave of absence when I did.

In my first semester I was taught a class in a brand new programming language that was literally being invented by the professor as we were learning it, and our final project was to write a VM for that new language in C. In my second semester, every two weeks we would have a programming assignment like "write a fully functional regex parser in two weeks" or "write a fully functional chess game with AI that could beat the best human chess player in the world." I also got to take a class taught by Luis von Ahn - at the time he was showing us a prototype for what has now become Duolingo. I also did research there with several other students about how the mind understands and processes English - something that was very useful to me later on with WordAi.

I am incredibly thankful for that experience and think it was very helpful to me. It made me a far better software developer, and it also helped me realize how much better the really good software developers are - even most of the average students at CMU could run circles around a lot of the people on this forum who view themselves as programmers.

I've been hiring a lot of software developers recently and I almost exclusively require a computer science degree from a highly reputable university like that. That doesn't mean there aren't great programmers out there who didn't go to college, but when I'm hiring and I see someone who graduated from a top tier computer science school I know they have to be extremely competent or else they would have been eaten alive and switched to a different major.

Of course it depends on what you want to do in life. I think for a lot of people they would get a much higher ROI getting involved in a skilled trade (like what Mike Rowe advocates) versus paying $200k for a Philosophy major.
 
eh, I dont know.

I see people going to top universities and spending a bunch of time and money to learn something that doesn't really help them or make them money.

Point in case, I went to a community college for 2 years and didn't even get a degree. But I got people who got one of dem there fancy degrees that went and copy/pasted me on some original ideas I had.

Mind you, I want it to be known that I am not talking about 1 specific person on this forum. No. I am actually talking about 3 ( yes three ) different comp sci degree people that I knew and talked to/was involved with in some way online.

From my point of view, college seems to be sucking out original ideas from people. Glad I didn't waste my time or money.

All in all, I think its different strokes for different folks. Some people need the crutch of college, some of us don't. I don't think all colleges are bad and I don't look down at people that go. Personally, I was always one of those guys that tested really well and read a lot of books, but I really needed hands on activities and experiences to satisfy me. Setting in a room listening to old guys lecture and taking courses on shit I wasn't interested in ( first 2 years ) was just BS for me.

I do agree that the sheep/herd mentality of people in general make it harder for those of us that didn't go to college to get well paying jobs, even though we may be waaaayyy better applicants and workers with tons more real world experience under our belt and proven accomplishments in those fields.

But then again, jobs suck.. right?
 
I'm probably going to let my kids go to college if they want to, just as a plan #3 backup strategy. The only way I am paying for it is after they meet 2 requirements.

1. Learn a trade and work in it for 1 year.
2. Start a business online and run it for 1 year, even if that means on the side.

Regardless of the outcome of either, once those are met ( running a business might be hard if they fail within 3 months ) I would be willing to pay for them to go to a local university instate.
 
I went to a pretty damn good school, and left with one fuck all of a bill. Hundreds of thousands later and my spelling and grammar still suck. Was it worth it? Can you put a price on having direct access to CEO's and government "officials"? All because you sold "red cups" with them! The value of that eduction was found outside the lecture halls.
 
The CEO of the company I work at was a lead C dev at MS in the early days. Crazy smart and experienced with writing drivers and low level shit, but he's completely lost when it comes to making apps, using a game engine or pretty much anything visual.

Important thing is to figure out what you really want to do. A lot of people have to guess what they think they want to do and commit to it, coming out of high school.
 
I see people going to top universities and spending a bunch of time and money to learn something that doesn't really help them or make them money.
For a philosophy degree - possibly. But a computer science or engineering degree is one of the best ways to learn how to be a really good software developer. And being a really good software developer is a great barrier to entry, as you can create products that require such a strong conceptual understanding of math and CS that most others couldn't copy you even if they wanted to.

Point in case, I went to a community college for 2 years and didn't even get a degree. But I got people who got one of dem there fancy degrees that went and copy/pasted me on some original ideas I had.
I'm fairly used to this. At our office we have a joke about how 6 months after we release a feature for WordAi, another spinner will make a poor imitation of that feature that doesn't really work (the concepts are a little too complicated for them to get completely right.) Then six months after that a different spinner will make a poor imitation of that poor imitation. We deal with it very simply, by spending our time thinking about what new things we are going to do instead of worrying or complaining about what others are doing. My focus is on what my customers want and not my competitors are doing. Even seemingly original ideas are remixes anyways and life would be much worse if we were forced to all still be using Excite or AltaVista because they were one of the first companies to come up with an idea.

Personally, I was always one of those guys that tested really well and read a lot of books, but I really needed hands on activities and experiences to satisfy me. Setting in a room listening to old guys lecture and taking courses on shit I wasn't interested in ( first 2 years ) was just BS for me.
Sounds like you had a bad college experience, but that doesn't make all college bad. I can say that a very high percentage of my time (especially in CS classes) was spent working on very practical problems.
 
http://www.wickedfire.com/shooting-the-shit/180446-how-educated-you.html

Here's a thread I started where WF users posted where they ended up with education and if they think it was worth it. As expected it's made fun of a lot on here.

Personally, I dropped out of school and I'm happy/sad I went. Sad because could have saved money from not ever going. Happy because I realized that it was just not the right path for me.

College dropouts/people who don't attend definitely face more scrutiny/social pressure, even from people in low hiring/low paying job areas (potentially more). People who go to college and get in debt don't want to think their degree is pointless. It makes for very heated discussions.

I think now it's dumb to hire someone based on it - no diss to Cardine and very interesting to see you look at it that much. It can be hit or miss on either end. Maybe it's just different in the computer science arena. I would say though that there is lots of amazing talent in programming/dev that never entered a classroom - does that make them a good employee? Again, something I'm ignorant on for computer programming.

I just see it as 1 potentially good thing to present on a resume for getting some jobs and not the end all be all for applying. If you're starting your own business investors may like it. It's good for networking for both parties too.

Edit: There's also the discussion that if people are going under this much debt then they'll be hurting for higher wages, and more stress to get it.
 
Point in case, I went to a community college for 2 years and didn't even get a degree.

A CC isn't going to give you the same experience as a 4-yr public or private university. I went to both and CC was a complete joke across the board. It's 13th grade. Everything from the curriculum, the workload required, the complacent students, campus life, the professors, etc....they basically have an open admission policy. A 4-yr filters out all the bad. There is good reason why university tuition rates usually start at 3x the cost of CC.
 
I think now it's dumb to hire someone based on it - no diss to Cardine and very interesting to see you look at it that much. It can be hit or miss on either end. Maybe it's just different in the computer science arena. I would say though that there is lots of amazing talent in programming/dev that never entered a classroom - does that make them a good employee? Again, something I'm ignorant on for computer programming.

Well I myself am a college dropout (well technically an extended leave of absence) so I definitely don't think a degree is a requirement to be successful at life.

I will say that I think most of the software that gets written in the internet marketing world is fairly simple, which allows for an average developer to look really smart. I think for more complicated projects, the skill difference between your average self taught developer and your average developer with a CS major from a top university becomes much more apparent.

For instance certain parts of how WordAi learns are based on algorithms that would require an understanding of fairly basic math concepts like partial derivatives and matrix algebra (as well as some concepts more complicated than that). But many self taught programmers would struggle to even conceptualize those topics because they lack the math background. When keeping up with the most cutting edge artificial intelligence work, you see math equations just as often as you see code, and a CS degree prepares you for that.

A good example of this is Renaissance Technologies, which uses complex mathematical models and artificial intelligence to manage their hedge funds. Over one third of their employees have Ph.D.'s because the concepts are so complicated.

Although we are not quite at the level of Renaissance, I very purposefully try to create products like this, because I know that this effectively limits the number of people who can compete with me. It creates very large barriers to entry where a large percentage of self taught developers simply do not have the background required to compete.

Now of course with that being said there is the occasional incredibly good completely self taught programmer, but the signal to noise ratio for hiring people without a degree can be very bad. There was someone recently on this forum who ran into that issue where they posted a programming job, explicitly didn't require a CS degree, and they got a horde of completely unqualified applications. For people with a CS degree you can assume a certain level of qualification because the CS programs they are in are so hard that anyone who wasn't really good would be forced to switch their major because they wouldn't be able to keep up.