Need Your Help WF! Own some WaFo Scum.

[Michael_]

I can't really recall the last time I was on WaFo. I mean, that place is a giant scam factory.

However, I noticed a WSO seller managed to get himself into the spotlight on another forum I frequent, a writing forum.

The service he is promoting is offering 10k free downloads of any book, across any genre, any time.

[Kindle Domination] Free Kindle Download Promotion Service (Hundreds Of Sales Afterwards)

To anyone who knows better, it's readily apparent that he's not doing this through some massive email list of readers, like the industry leader, Bookbub, does. (A fun fact is that he won't let any readers of this writing forum, or anyone else for that matter, subscribe to his free book recommendation list lol).

A few people of this writing forum were given test runs (and plenty of people are buying this shit), because a few people readily identified it as bullshit. So, naturally, the downloads came in and pushed authors to the top of the free store listings.

Of all the results reported back in the thread, none of the 10k downloads operate like real readers. However, once up the lists, the results get muddied because you start getting significant visibility in the Amazon store.

I don't have much experience in this area, but wouldn't Amazon be pretty pissed off about someone manipulating their rankings like this?

How is he doing it? Don't need specifics, would just like to keep these overly optimistic writers from getting scammed by WaFo scumbags. I.E - some kind of proof to kill their blind faith and optimism.

Thanks for any help, WF bros.

 

[microphone head]

Chap - I'm actually finding it easier to follow the missing bitcoin than properly understand what you're asking for.

Or am I being slow thanks to some good haze genetics?

 

[CCarter]

Honestly Michael it looks like he's got a system in place to increase downloads, which then help authors gain more paid sales cause of the resulting download numbers - pretty much Amazon's fault cause of their system design. Besides the Amazon manipulation, what's the actual problem? Do you work for Amazon or something? Cause we do SEO manipulation for Google, and Facebook cloaking over here. Looks like he's got a pretty good system. Why not test it out for yourself and report back if it's worth it. If I had a Kindle book right now, I'd give it a test run, why the fuck not?​

 

[JulianTrueFlynn]

Honestly Michael it looks like he's got a system in place to increase downloads, which then help authors gain more paid sales cause of the resulting download numbers - pretty much Amazon's fault cause of their system design. Besides the Amazon manipulation, what's the actual problem? Do you work for Amazon or something? Cause we do SEO manipulation for Google, and Facebook cloaking over here. Looks like he's got a pretty good system. Why not test it out for yourself and report back if it's worth it. If I had a Kindle book right now, I'd give it a test run, why the fuck not?

My thoughts exactly

 

[Michael_]

Chap - I'm actually finding it easier to follow the missing bitcoin than properly understand what you're asking for.

Or am I being slow thanks to some good haze genetics?

Oh, uh... well he's advertising his free book promotion service as this:

1. Buy promotion block from him for your free book on the Amazon store (2,500, 5,000 or 10,000 guaranteed free downloads) for $300ish
2. He supposedly sends a promotion email to his reader list of emails.
3. Your rankings shoot up on the free lists in Amazon's store, but none of the downloads behave like legitimate readers.

The industry leader in ebook promotion, Bookbub, can't even match the numbers he's giving, and they boast a reader list between 1 and 2 million. Which leads one to believe that the free promotion downloads he's selling are being done through nefarious means.

Aside from the shitty results people are receiving which makes it appear that these 10k downloads he's selling are from comprised Amazon accounts or something, there's no way to prove anything.

You schedule your run with him, the downloads burst open, and once you hit your threshold, they stop just as quickly (not even operating like a real email blast).

I'm not versed in this type of stuff, so I'm not sure how one would out this scam to the hard-working writers who are lining up to buy this service. I really can't imagine Amazon being to thrilled with people gaming their rankings. So the real question is, how does one out this guy?

 

[Michael_]

Honestly Michael it looks like he's got a system in place to increase downloads, which then help authors gain more paid sales cause of the resulting download numbers - pretty much Amazon's fault cause of their system design. Besides the Amazon manipulation, what's the actual problem? Do you work for Amazon or something? Cause we do SEO manipulation for Google, and Facebook cloaking over here. Looks like he's got a pretty good system. Why not test it out for yourself and report back if it's worth it. If I had a Kindle book right now, I'd give it a test run, why the fuck not?​

A few reasons:

1. He's blatantly advertising it as something it's not.

2. If he is using a fake account network or something, unsuspecting authors could have their publishing rights revoked once associated with all this malicious activity.

Publishing on Amazon isn't quite the same as gaming Google. Once your publishing account is banned, on the social security number level, you're pretty much screwed (baring a whole headache of stuff).

 

[CCarter]

A few reasons:

1. He's blatantly advertising it as something it's not.

2. If he is using a fake account network or something, unsuspecting authors could have their publishing rights revoked once associated with all this malicious activity.

Publishing on Amazon isn't quite the same as gaming Google. Once your publishing account is banned, on the social security number level, you're pretty much screwed.

1. Meh, you can't force people to think, and you can't protect everyone. Even if you go and explain to them the problem, if they are shit out of luck and starving for sales, they'll risk it. You might even encourage them in your attempt to discourage them, cause that's what you are doing to me right now.

2. Risk versus Reward.

3. Why would they have your SSN? Why not a LLC's tax ID instead, much easier to get a new one. ​

 

[Ibanez | Jan]

A few reasons:

1. He's blatantly advertising it as something it's not.

2. If he is using a fake account network or something, unsuspecting authors could have their publishing rights revoked once associated with all this malicious activity.

Publishing on Amazon isn't quite the same as gaming Google. Once your publishing account is banned, on the social security number level, you're pretty much screwed (baring a whole headache of stuff).

Do you want to out xrumr link sellers because some idiots think it's a good idea to blast a few hundred thousand links with one anchor to their main money making site?

Retards gonna retard.

 

[dmnEPC]

Ban for outing

 

[Michael_]

1. Meh, you can't force people to think, and you can't protect everyone. Even if you go and explain to them the problem, if they are shit out of luck and starving for sales, they'll risk it. You might even encourage them in your attempt to discourage them, cause that's what you are doing to me right now.

2. Risk versus Reward.

3. Why would they have your SSN? Why not a LLC's tax ID instead, much easier to get a new one. ​

1 & 2. I'm fine with.

But 3. is what concerns me. The people he's preying on are housewife-writers and self-publishers who get side income or all their income from self-publishing on the Zon. They don't know any better when it comes to this internet marketing stuff. Many of the people who are lining up for his service can't afford to have their accounts zapped and don't know the first thing about LLCs.

Just bugs me that he's still running around proclaiming to have a million+ responsive reader email list for free book recommendations that no one has heard of. I don't care if he's gaming Amazon, I just want to be able to show these poor saps that it's not legitimate, then, they can decide for themselves if they want the risk vs reward.

 

[dmnEPC]

1 & 2. I'm fine with.

But 3. is what concerns me. The people he's preying on are housewife-writers and self-publishers who get side income or all their income from self-publishing on the Zon. They don't know any better when it comes to this internet marketing stuff. Many of the people who are lining up for his service can't afford to have their accounts zapped and don't know the first thing about LLCs.

Just bugs me that he's still running around proclaiming to have a million+ responsive reader email list for free book recommendations that no one has heard of. I don't care if he's gaming Amazon, I just want to be able to show these poor saps that it's not legitimate, then, they can decide for themselves if they want the risk vs reward.

Those are called customers. Leave it go

 

[$MoneyMike$]

So much hate, man. Do you really think these publishers don't know they are breaking the rules by manipulating Amazon results? If they don't, they are dumbasses anyways...

GTFO

 

[qibrandmgmt]

1 & 2. I'm fine with.

But 3. is what concerns me. The people he's preying on are housewife-writers and self-publishers who get side income or all their income from self-publishing on the Zon. They don't know any better when it comes to this internet marketing stuff.

Michael be honest, when you express this concern for the "housewife-writers" are you really referring to your mom?

Is your mom an Amazon writer in her spare time?

 

[Michael_]

Ah well, guess I should have made a bitcoin thread.

Thanks anyway fellas.

 

[potentialeight]

Such a hateful hater.

 

[greenleaves]

ITT Michael is jelly as fuck that others have figured out ways to do... marketing! Gosh, god forbid someone actually manipuated ranking systems to get more sales. That is like so totally unethical.

@ Michael, you should call Rand Fishkin and you can both revel in the outrage of people thinking outside the box to get ahead.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N5p8IXzNdc"]I hate you, and only you! (Playa Haters Ball) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[thehobbster]

So he's doing SEO. Big whoop. But if he's lying about the way it's going down, that's another thing. But again, that happens here every day of the week. It's up to the buyer's to use their powers of discrimination to determine what's bullshit or not. I'd love to hold everyone's hand, but alas, my hand won't let go of my dick.

If we start going to war against shitty WaFo providers, it'll never end.

 

[IceToEskimos]

Ah well, guess I should have made a bitcoin thread.

No, it's not that, it's just you are complaining about somebody doing an excellent job of marketing a product to a board full of marketers.

If you're really concerned about the plight of the mommy-writers, or whoever it is that you think will be damaged by this, the thing to do is probably make some posts on forums they frequent explaining your concern, and why you think they should exercise caution.

Other than that, what did you think WF was going to do? Give you a way to disrupt this guy's business plan?

There are probably 5 people right now working on how to improve it...

 

[greenleaves]

Ah well, guess I should have made a bitcoin thread.

Thanks anyway fellas.

No, you should have thought of a way to profit from this instead of snitching on him and asking our help to hurt him because he has figured out shit you haven't.

If you would have said: Hey guys, I found this guy doing xyz, I think I can profit from this by abc
Then you would have received awesome feedback.

Edit: Didn't mean to be little dog to ITE, IceToEsquimos just beat me to it

 

[microphone head]

It wasn't just the haze genetics then. Damn - and I thought it was pretty good! Might cross it with some cheese then.

Chap - asking that here? seriously?

It's like complaining to Union Carbide that you think a small chemist in the neighborhood might be pouring bleach down the drain and asking for help to expose them!