Troubled Teens Make More Successful Entrepreneurs

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Feb 24, 2012
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Interesting research conducting by the National Bureau of Economic Research suggests that smart, rule-abiding teenagers are less likely to become successful entrepreneurs than equally intelligent teens who engage in illicit activities, according to new research.

Wall Street Journal:


In a working paper published by the National Bureau of Economic Research, economists Ross Levine and Yona Rubinstein examine what it takes to become an entrepreneur and whether entrepreneurship pays off in terms of wages. Using data from the March Supplements of the U.S. Census Bureau‘s Current Population Survey and the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, they look at the cognitive, noncognitive and family traits of self-employed individuals who have incorporated businesses and compare it to the characteristics of salaried workers and the self-employed who don’t have incorporated businesses.

Previous research on entrepreneurs has looked at the entire population of self-employed workers, which, Messrs. Levine and Rubinstein say, doesn’t distinguish between a hot dog vendor and Michael Bloomberg. The process of incorporating a business — making it a separate entity under the law — can be lengthy and expensive. The economists argue that self-employed workers who incorporate their businesses show the intent and agency to start a new, profitable venture and are therefore more representative of entrepreneurship than those who haven’t incorporated their businesses. Furthermore, not many self-employed workers switch from unincorporated to incorporated and vice versa, the economists say, providing more support for the idea that incorporation coincides with an entrepreneurial venture. ”The nature of the business tells you about the nature of the person,” says Mr. Rubinstein.

The economists find that self-employed workers with incorporated businesses were almost three times more likely to engage in illicit and risky activities as youth than were salaried workers. These behaviors include but aren’t limited to shoplifting, marijuana use, playing hooky at school, drug dealing and assault. In addition, the self-employed with incorporated businesses exhibited greater self-esteem, scored higher on learning aptitude tests, were more educated and were more likely to come from high-earning, two-parent families than other employment types. “Of course, you have to be smart,” says Mr. Levine. “But it’s a unique combination of breaking rules and being smart that helps you become an entrepreneur.”

These qualities also have a downside. Risk-taking tendencies in combination with high self-esteem make successful entrepreneurs prone to dangerous lapses in judgement, the Wall Street Journal reported in June, finding that many financial advisers have to keep their entrepreneur clients in check.
But on the whole, entrepreneurship does pay off. The economists find that individuals who left their salaried jobs to start incorporated businesses work more hours but also earn more per hour than other employment types, and those who start successful incorporated enterprises enjoy substantially larger boosts in earnings relative to their own wages as salaried workers. The results show “that entrepreneurship, at the median, pays — and it offers the possibility of comparably enormous returns,” the researchers write.

Self-employed workers who don’t incorporate their businesses earn less than salaried workers, the economists find. Prior research, which uses all self-employed workers as a proxy for entrepreneurship, has found that salaried workers make more than entrepreneurs, but have similar levels of educational attainment. Messrs. Levine and Rubinstein say that separating self-employed workers into incorporated and unincorporated categories resolves this discrepancy.

The economists note that entrepreneurs come from wealthier families, which may give them an advantage with raising capital. The Journal recently reported that growing student loan burdens have been killing startup dreams for many young people.
 


is that why this forum is full of "grown up" delinquents?
 
No shit.

Antisocial tendencies lend themselves to finding clever ways of taking people's money.
 
No shit.

Antisocial tendencies lend themselves to finding clever ways of taking people's money.

Who said you have to be antisocial to not follow rules?

It's not so much about that, as that to be an entrepreneur you have to be willing to take risks and swim upstream, against mainstream public opinion. Be willing to break the mold, do things which aren't "conventional".

Taking on a load of credit card debt to start a company isn't a bright thing to do by many people's standards, but lots of big businesses today were originally funded in that way.

Saying something a big company does "is broken" and making a piece of software to solve the problem, as a tiny team, against a multi-billion dollar company (or companies) is a big risk. It seems stupid to most people.

Smoking a joint is breaking the rules, taking a risk that you might get caught. The same goes for drug dealing, shoplifting, etc. It all shows an understanding of risk vs reward. It shows an ability to say "hey, the risk of getting caught is worth the upside to me". Rather than arbitrarily saying "xyz is against the law/rules, so I won't do it". It's a different way of thinking.

To be a successful entrepreneur you have to thrive in a risk heavy environment. It's also part of the reason why so many company founders get thrown out as a company scales. Companies get bigger, and that risk taking characteristic that was important when the company was trying to grow 100-10000% every year becomes a liability.
 
Who said you have to be antisocial to not follow rules?

It's not so much about that, as that to be an entrepreneur you have to be willing to take risks and swim upstream, against mainstream public opinion. Be willing to break the mold, do things which aren't "conventional".

Taking on a load of credit card debt to start a company isn't a bright thing to do by many people's standards, but lots of big businesses today were originally funded in that way.

Saying something a big company does "is broken" and making a piece of software to solve the problem, as a tiny team, against a multi-billion dollar company (or companies) is a big risk. It seems stupid to most people.

Smoking a joint is breaking the rules, taking a risk that you might get caught. The same goes for drug dealing, shoplifting, etc. It all shows an understanding of risk vs reward. It shows an ability to say "hey, the risk of getting caught is worth the upside to me". Rather than arbitrarily saying "xyz is against the law/rules, so I won't do it". It's a different way of thinking.

To be a successful entrepreneur you have to thrive in a risk heavy environment. It's also part of the reason why so many company founders get thrown out as a company scales. Companies get bigger, and that risk taking characteristic that was important when the company was trying to grow 100-10000% every year becomes a liability.


From Antisocial personality disorder: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

A person with antisocial personality disorder may:

  • Be able to act witty and charming
  • Be good at flattery and manipulating other people's emotions
  • Break the law repeatedly
  • Disregard the safety of self and others
  • Have problems with substance abuse
  • Lie, steal, and fight often
  • Not show guilt or remorse
  • Often be angry or arrogant

I'm not saying that you have to be a sociopath to become successful at business, but successful entrepreneurs typically display tendencies that can be seen as "antisocial."

Here's an interesting article that elaborates upon what I'm saying:
Startup entrepreneurs are ‘arrogant and psychopathic’ — Tech News and Analysis
Among successful entrepreneurs, for example, they see higher incidences of three particular traits: self-regard and narcissism, manipulation and trickery (known as Machiavellianism) and — perhaps most disturbingly — what they refer to as “subclinical psychopathy”. This trio is what psychologists call the “dark triad”.

Emotional manipulation is what marketing is really all about (hitting pain points, etc..).

Likewise, those who are skilled at manipulation and flattery are obviously going to be great at networking, building rep, and gaining trust from targets they see as assets.

Those who lack remorse have no problem stepping on toes and throwing people under the bus to turn a profit. The ends justify the means.

In short:
High-Functioning sociopaths/narcissists have a definite upper-hand in the business world, because THEY ARE risk takers, rule breakers, charismatic, manipulative, and have no qualms about crossing over ethical lines.

Doesn't mean you gotta be one, but it's obvious why those traits can be assets in the business world.

EDIT: I guess the point I'm trying to make is that with all the above in mind, it makes sense that successful entrepreneurs typically display antisocial traits during their teen years.
 
"incorporating a business" is not a proper gauge of success and invalidates any meaningful conclusions one could draw from this correlation.


1/20 entrepreneurs (I meet a lot) I have met could be considered successful. It's hard to tell if that is even true because most lie their asses off.

Most MLM's push you to incorporate your own business...

I would like to see the same analysis run on business owners with 5+ employees or something more characteristic of success. You might find a similar correlation but you could probably derive the reasons for success.

From an income perspective, I've seen a lot more opportunities for the regular person to make good money being an employee than owner.
 
"incorporating a business" is not a proper gauge of success and invalidates any meaningful conclusions one could draw from this correlation.


1/20 entrepreneurs (I meet a lot) I have met could be considered successful. It's hard to tell if that is even true because most lie their asses off.

Most MLM's push you to incorporate your own business...

I would like to see the same analysis run on business owners with 5+ employees or something more characteristic of success. You might find a similar correlation but you could probably derive the reasons for success.

From an income perspective, I've seen a lot more opportunities for the regular person to make good money being an employee than owner.

Did you read any of the study, and why they chose that as a metric? It's much harder to get statistically significant data on what you are asking for. Most companies never get incorporated, incorporation is a good sign that someone is "serious" about what they are doing, and taking that step.
 
Didn't read the article, but my initial thoughts based on the OP title..

"Troubled Teens Make More Successful Entrepreneurs"

What most parents consider to be a "troubled teen" is usually an individual who knows what they want and doesn't take shit from their parents to get it (thus the inevitable clashes, labeling them troubled). When in reality it's the parents who are usually too hell bent on parent-child hierarchy/obedience that creates for the "troubled" teen behaviors themselves.

That strong-spirited personality that parents clash with is likely to lend itself to a more successful individual later in life; as long as it's not beaten out of them.
 
I have been on both sides of this now. I was such a pain in my parents ass that they got my Grandmother to pay to ship me off to boarding school in 9th grade. Always the square peg in the round hole at school and corporate environments...

But I have started and run 5 different businesses, some successful, 1 flame out...

Now I have a 17 yr old son who is the same way I was; bright, questioning, and can not stand the factory atmosphere of the academic world.

The hardest battle I have is giving him space to be himself, but fulfill those few requirements that he needs to have in today's society. We laugh that the only fights we have are over school...

Being the Dad of a son who would be categorized by the schools as troubled, or at least unruly, can be tough. He scored a 1920 on his SAT but has a 2.3 GPA and that is only because I ride his ass at the end of the semester to not fail some classes.

From the immortal Ozzy Osbourne:

I've listened to preachers
I've listened to fools
I've watched all the dropouts
Who make their own rules
One person conditioned to rule and control
The media sells it and you live the role
 
Didn't read the article, but my initial thoughts based on the OP title..

"Troubled Teens Make More Successful Entrepreneurs"

What most parents consider to be a "troubled teen" is usually an individual who knows what they want and doesn't take shit from their parents to get it (thus the inevitable clashes, labeling them troubled). When in reality it's the parents who are usually too hell bent on parent-child hierarchy/obedience that creates for the "troubled" teen behaviors themselves.

That strong-spirited personality that parents clash with is likely to lend itself to a more successful individual later in life; as long as it's not beaten out of them.

This might be related:

I've been toying with this idea of making sure my children know they're being disciplined because they got caught.

"If you want to do it, don't get caught."

I haven't implemented that line of thinking yet, primarily because I think they're still a little too young. But I think that's a beneficial lesson to learn, but I'm still torn.
 
This might be related:

I've been toying with this idea of making sure my children know they're being disciplined because they got caught.

"If you want to do it, don't get caught."

I haven't implemented that line of thinking yet, primarily because I think they're still a little too young. But I think that's a beneficial lesson to learn, but I'm still torn.

Not to de-rail this thread further, but to respond..

We should want our kids to do (or not do) something not because they fear being caught (which is largely what disciplinarians teach; fear based compliance), but because it's a decision they've processed and it was right for them and their life.

Now of course if we're talking about smoking marijuana and not getting caught by the cops, you're right; don't get caught.

Will Smith:
When asked if he's ever punished Jaden, Will says he and Jada "don't do punishments." Instead, the couple let their children be responsible for their own lives. "Our concept is, as young as possible, give them as much control over their lives as possible and the concept of punishment, our experience has been—it has a little too much of a negative quality," said Will. "So when they do things—and you know, Jaden, he's done things—you can do anything you want as long as you can explain to me why that was the right decision for your life."
 
I keep thinking about this every day. Turned 18 and graduated high school this year, sometimes I see $300 days but I'm really only averaging around $5000 a month. I don't know if I should keep doing what I'm doing or go to school and drop out after I'm done networking and feel good about the connections I've made. I don't care if I'm successful in the traditional sense, money and possession isn't shit to me, but rather the experiences and relationships I get out of life so atm...im puzzled as fuck
 
really didn't think this needed to be studied to be figured out

where i'm from kids try harder to impress parents that aren't there.

self-questioning all their life why they are not good enough for their parent to be arounnd

relateable article
 
I have been on both sides of this now. I was such a pain in my parents ass that they got my Grandmother to pay to ship me off to boarding school in 9th grade. Always the square peg in the round hole at school and corporate environments...

But I have started and run 5 different businesses, some successful, 1 flame out...

Now I have a 17 yr old son who is the same way I was; bright, questioning, and can not stand the factory atmosphere of the academic world.

The hardest battle I have is giving him space to be himself, but fulfill those few requirements that he needs to have in today's society. We laugh that the only fights we have are over school...

Being the Dad of a son who would be categorized by the schools as troubled, or at least unruly, can be tough. He scored a 1920 on his SAT but has a 2.3 GPA and that is only because I ride his ass at the end of the semester to not fail some classes.

From the immortal Ozzy Osbourne:

I've listened to preachers
I've listened to fools
I've watched all the dropouts
Who make their own rules
One person conditioned to rule and control
The media sells it and you live the role

I had this problem in school, and primarily it was because I hadn't formed an end goal that I was passionate about which made me strive to improve my skills in certain areas.

For example, if he wants to work in a field like marketing or sales he should definitely focus his energies on English and writing, etc. Most importantly, he has to see the benefits of the path.

When I was young I had all sorts of ridiculous entrepreneurship schemes but since my parents were not entrepreneurs, they never really had any relevant advice for me. Building birdhouses or breeding gerbils were ambitious ideas at age 11, but without having done any market research it was all destined for failure.

In high school, instead of doing my homework I was learning how to use 3D modelling software because I wanted to make video games.

If only I could go back in time and give myself advice...
 
Did you read any of the study, and why they chose that as a metric? It's much harder to get statistically significant data on what you are asking for. Most companies never get incorporated, incorporation is a good sign that someone is "serious" about what they are doing, and taking that step.
I understand that.
Being "serious" about what you are doing != Success

This study is meaningless because they can't acquire any data related to success?

In my building are about 150 people and almost all of them have their own incorporated business (two MLM's here). Probably 10-15 of them are successful and make 50+

Go over to my friends building of a corporate office with same number of people and the incomes go way up across the board.
 
This is why we need to start beating our kids.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMLr5tOjF3A]Russell Peters - Beat Your Kids HQ - YouTube[/ame]
 
They make better heavy metal as well. Look what happens to all the good ones once they get a few bucks. They stop being angry, stop being hungry and make a couple ballads and thats it, they are done.