USA should have never been

Ar Scion

Ar Scion

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Oct 27, 2009
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...so argue these guys here.

Both sides got valid points.

My question is, if the US up and split from the union unilaterally, why can't our states?

And on a meta-level, what about people? You feel the government doesn't represent you, why not use the same legal tactic the US did and declare independence from the United States federal government?

Not saying one should. This is purely about the legal technicalities in play.
 


Ar Scion said:
And on a meta-level, what about people? You feel the government doesn't represent you, why not use the same legal tactic the US did and declare independence from the United States federal government?
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From what I've heard it's definitely possible but very tricky. Requires tracking down as many state produced accounts as you can and closing them, opting out of the social safety net, filing a bunch of forms, basically erasing and nullifying everything about your prior existence as a citizen.

Moreover it requires a very, very, very intimate understanding of UCC code, constitutional case law, and law in general. Screw anything up along the way and the state can nail you to the wall.

Hard to explain but from what I've gathered it comes down to using the premises that the state uses to validate itself to excuse yourself from its jurisdiction and declare yourself a sovereign being of God who is only subject to divine will and not the will of man. Or some shit like that. I've heard it requires a LOT of paperwork.
 
Ar Scion said:
...so argue these guys here.
Both sides got valid points.
My question is, if the US up and split from the union unilaterally, why can't our states?
And on a meta-level, what about people? You feel the government doesn't represent you, why not use the same legal tactic the US did and declare independence from the United States federal government?
Not saying one should. This is purely about the legal technicalities in play.
Click to expand...

I've thought about this too before and it really just comes down to the fact that humans are hypocritical pieces of shit.. all of us.. even good ol Abe Lincoln who saved the union.

I'm by no means sympathetic to the South's cause, but ya, if there was any ACTUAL justice in the world they should have had the right to secede.
Also, every individual should have the right to live without government.

So your problem is believing that there is actual justice and fairness in the world. There are only moments were some of us agree on something.. but usually someone gets shafted.
 
I am sympathetic to the South's cause. . . . it was about more than slavery ( the only part the south had it wrong on).

To clarify I don't condone slavery.
 
Yuckystuff said:
Not trying to be a dick, but all of that is complete bullshit. UCC code, sovereign man, and all the rest of that nonsense will get you a seat in a federal penitentiary. Anybody that says differently is either misguided, misinformed or trying to sell you something.
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No offense taken. But you're also not 100% correct either.

I personally know someone who revoked his SS#, does not pay taxes, and drives without a license. Lives off the grid in Aroostook County. Took him a long time to square it all away and had a lawyer for some of the process. I know someone else whose children do not have SS#s or birth certificates, home school and medical, basically no public records. And I also have a little first hand experience of my own that there is some amount truth to be found among the loads of bs you read regarding this topic.

Like I said possible but very difficult. For every legit piece of info out there about this topic there are probably 100 pieces of mis/disinfo. One of the most muddied research topics out there.

It's amazing what you can accomplish when you know how laws really work.
 
And yeah, trying to pull this kind of thing off would likely land you in a pen, not frolicking about in your private rainbow rainbow fields with ripped up tax bills and wads of cash swirling around you.
 
Yuckystuff said:
Anybody can stop paying taxes and all that if they want to go live in the woods somewhere - nobody is going to chase you down and force you to get a job and pay bills. But I think you're missing the point. Every single case where somebody has argued UCC, sovereign man etc has ended up with that person in prison. I would gladly welcome a link showing otherwise.

And the part about driving without a license will only work until you're caught. Show me a law that makes it legal to drive on public roads without a license.
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Nah I'm not missing the point, you're right. But don't forget that people who do actually succeed at doing things like this don't generally write books about it or talk it up and for good reason.

No law to show; that's not really the way it's done, if indeed it's to be done at all. It'd me more like, I'm declaring that no one has jurisdiction over me or my corporate strawman or whatever the crap, and I don't need to ask permission to travel from one place to another on god's green earth.

Hey don't ask me comrade. I love Big Brother.
 
DreamMachine said:
Well you have that right, but if you're not paying taxes you get to travel on your own roads.
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DreamMachine said:
Well you have that right, but if you're not paying taxes you get to travel on your own roads.
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LESS QQ MORE PEW PEW PEEEEEWWWWWWWWW



Also, anyone really interested in this stuff, I suggest you stay away from the freeman stuff. I checked it out, and its interesting, but almost completely useless in a practical sense. Recommend Marc Stevens' No State Project and his excellent book, Adventures in Legal Land. It is probably the best $20 you can spend on legal advice.


Edited, this is the full presentation, better video link. Red pill warning.

Marc Stevens: Delusions on Vimeo
 
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