When do you fire a client?

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pdxdvr

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Dec 10, 2011
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TL;DR version:

I have a gut feeling this potential client is going to be a pain in my ass, do I keep forging ahead but cover myself contractually or fire him now?

Full version:

I don't really do web design for anyone but friends or my own personal projects. It always seems to take about 10 times as long as I expect because people are nitpicky pains in the ass.

I did one recently for a friend, it turned into a referral for a real estate company in a resort destination. Met with the owners, woman owner says she wants me to do it and is just happy I'm there. Guy owner is older gentleman who pulls one of those, "I've done web design for 15 years, I just haven't done it the last few months so we thought we'd hire out". Yes, I have a slight prejudice and when I see a gray haired person clearly in their 60s and they say they know web design, I have my doubts. And when I hear that line specifically, red flags go up that this guy is going to want to try to micromanage the shit out of the process.

I did some test coding of a few things they want custom to see if I'd have to hire it out, wrote up a proposal, and sent it over.

Guy owner wants it in DOC format so he can comment all over it. Another flag in my head.

I get it back and he's playing that game where he thinks he can get good, fast, and cheap all at once. Lots of stupid little shit that makes me feel like saying, "Look, I can implement a tried and true system and train your people for this price, or I can develop something completely custom for you and it'll take 10 times as long and cost 10 times as much." Mostly multi-lingual WordPress stuff.

Then we get to the kicker: I tell him my hourly for any nitpicky bullshit beyond agreed upon revisions (because I fully expect he's going to waste my time) and he comments, "This seems absurdly high based on where you're living."

I'm sleeping before writing him back because I'm pissed, but I feel like writing him back letting him know that ~18 years worth of knowledge doesn't devalue based on where I choose to live. This coming from a realtor who charges the same commission that most do in the states (where I assume he'd find my hourly acceptable).

I don't need the money is the other thing. I have steady income that covers all of my living expenses, this project would just be extra money. And that's always nice, but at what cost?

So based on my side of the story, do I just let him know that my rate is my rate and that he came to me because he's seen my work and knows I can do what he wants done, or do I even discuss the possibility of adjusting my rate, or do I just tell him perhaps we're not the best fit?
 


"do I just let him know that my rate is my rate"

yes. period. i have to negotiate my rate all the time. you decide your worth and stick by it.
 
When the guy across the street advertises that he cuts hair for $6, you put up a sign that says "I fix $6 haircuts."

Some people can't know what a $6 haircut looks like until they're staring at the monstrosity on their head. And in most cases, it's not your job to do anything else than guarantee them the quality of your service.

I'm not just assuming you don't compete on price, I'm asking you not to.

You have a pain in the ass client on your hands. Listen to me very carefully. In both your response and proposal to him, you need to take control of the expectation.

  1. Outline what he's getting in exchange for your rate.
  2. Set the expectation for how communication is going to be handled.
  3. Set the expectation for how deliverables and revisions are going to be handled.
  4. (And before I recommend ditching this client altogether) Tell him your rate just increased due to external factors.

This e-mail looks like this:

Seasoned Expert,

I'm looking forward to helping you with your project. Before we move forward, I wanted to reiterate that I'll be providing you with a very organized approach to delivering quality on time. Again, reference my portfolio for any questions regarding my experience, and definitely let me know if you'd like any references.

For this particular project, I will [explain your overall gameplan and workflow].

In order to keep us on the best possible timeline, scheduling our communication at specific intervals in the project is incredibly important. Instead of sifting through a bunch of e-mails, let's plan to talk at [name project milestones]. Any ideas or questions not critical to the project should be held to those meetings. Again, this is crucial for our timeline success. Let me know what works for you.

Also, during our proposal period, I've recently committed to other projects and would like to prioritize your project as well. In order to do so, I'll need to increase any additional costs outside of scope to my new hourly rate of $xx. My rate is direct reflection of my availability, and I hope you'll take my time as seriously as I take your's. With this in mind, I'd like to offer you up to 2 revisions on deliverables following our initial review period.

I'm looking forward to starting our project, and please let me know if you have any questions.

Sincerely,
Go Fuck Yourself
Click to expand...
Finally, you need to be honest with yourself. If you lose this client, are you going to struggle to pay rent or buy groceries? If so, perhaps reconsider increasing your rate, but you need to understand that this client is going to give you a lot of push back and it's going to suck. You need to plan accordingly.

Be tactful, do good work, but don't be afraid to tell them it's not working out.

Remember, you fix $6 haircuts - not supply them.
 
he seems to be be micro manager so better give up or have a clear agreement on the price, time to deliver etc., else u will end up in wasting time.
 
I would be civil in your dealings with him and just mention that you won't be able to work on his project - word it however you want. And don't agree to do it under any circumstances! This guy is going to be a PITA, you are going to be chasing down money from him and have many more gray hairs in the process. Or after you get it all coded up, he's not going to be satisfied with the price and tell you he's no longer interested and going to have someone else do the work...

The writing is on the wall, and clearly you already know the answer. Just don't let your emotions get the better of you, act professionally and treat it like a business deal, of which you aren't going to be involved in. Move on and find clients that actually want to deal with you.

FYI- Real estate agents are used to negotiating with people, generally they want to pay the least amount possible - regardless of the amount of training/experience required to do the job.
 
My hourly rate is a reflection of the value I would bring to your project, but I can make some enquiries for you as I may be able to recommend a cheap web designer.
 
I would avoid him at all costs. For every bad client you refuse, you might get the time to deal with better ones. Stick with your rates, or even better, increase them further. He'll quit and that's it.
 
Walk away. This is why I have pretty much given up doing web design for clients these days
 
Get the fuck out of this job.

If you really want to do the job, get a prepayment and send him your hours every day,
otherwise he'll go the "oh you never spent that much time on this minor issue, this is absurdly high" route again.
People like him who want to have their fingers in other people's work / business are the worst motherfuckers out there who have absolutely no respect for the things you're doing.
You'll be always arguing with him over little shit and the stupid comments he sends you every day will drive you nuts.

When I was starting my journey on the internetz 5-6 years ago, I had to deal with people like this on a daily basis and after a couple of months I told
all customers to fuck off and never accepted any new customers again after my breakdown. I was doing webdesign at that time and I bet the guys with webdesign experience here can relate to this.
Every idiot thinks that he knows a lot about design / marketing / branding, so if you don't pick your clients wisely you'll end up as some sort of input device in the hands of a retarded customer.

Fuck, thinking about the old days still gives me shivers and I feel my heart rate going up lol.

- you don't need the money
- customer turns out to be a douche after a few hours work done
- doesn't trust your skills / treats you like a second class coder because he knows everything better
- doesn't want to pay your regular rate
= invest your time in your own projects.
 
Do you normally negotiate your rate? Why start now just because someone complains? Will this company sell their real estate at half-price if you bitch about how much it costs?

Of course, no need to be snarky about it. Just start by clearly setting the boundaries of what you're willing to do and for what price. Either he wants to purchase your service on those terms or he doesn't.
 
I dont do what you all do, but I work with customers just the same. When someone bitches I pull out my right python and say, "my tattoo guy charged me $150 an hour"

That usually fixes that.

And secondly mention to him just because you dont(I dont know the details) live in the States doesnt mean you dont have a 5000 sq.ft. pad with a maid, a cook and a driver. You also need to have private security as you are not a peasant and you are at this point contemplating focusing on the other 25 clients you have that are very happy with everything you are about.

Include a link to googlehammer if he responds poorly.
 
If you are thinking of dropping him then for the lulz, I'd ask him "Are you going to be a pain in my ass and micro-manage me every step of the way?" People are so thrown off by the directness of the question, they'll try to evade that by stating "Noooo... I just want to make sure the job is done... bla bla bla.", that's when you know that was the plan. Their immediate answer and body language (AND most importantly the reaction of people in the room that heard you, think partner) should tell you EXACTLY the situation you are going to face.


Also, I love boatburner's idea, and raise your rates on them. He will try to backpedal to the old rate. And the milestone communications, perfecto. There are several options for you to go. Just make sure you go the route that gives you control and power.

When you are in a situation where you have absolutely nothing to lose, since you don't NEED the money, but it would be good to have, you can use the technique to throw people way off, and get them to stop fucking around with you. People will tend to take you more seriously when you come at them directly when they attempt to fuck with you in these situations.

Once you leave, you can guarantee that the partners are going to have a discussion or argument on the matter, and probably will get a phone call from the 2nd partner wanting you to move forward. Back in the day, I used that technique several times and lost a lot of contracts, then 3 to 4 weeks later the people that were serious call me back wanting me to work on the project cause they respected me at that point and knew I was a no-bullshit solid person to work with that will get the job done.

It's a mind game at the end of the day.​
 
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