Why is it that coders don't ever convert a PSD using the right spacing?

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::\\\ Motivªtion ///::
Dec 28, 2011
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California, USA
I still don't understand this...

Granted I'm not a great coder, I'm curious to know why when I design a normal web page PSD on a grid and it's all lined up.. Somehow it comes back out of whack with bad spacing.. Have had this issue with every coding company I've dealt with, including freelancers.. And it's not just text or images, it's background pieces, everything, etc..

Also 1K posts, will make another thread about it later..
 


Because you pay them $4/hour, probably.

Paid a professional company that's been around for awhile $2K for 1 homepage PSD to be coded, it was basic. Text, images and links, nothing fancy.. Came back looking like pure shit, seriously the worst live design/code imaginable.. Looked nothing like the PSD I sent.. I think it broke 2500 lines of code, lol.. Should have been way under 400.

Doesn't matter who I pay, I've had the same experiences at every pay grade.. Those $4/HR India guys have actually had the best coding to date out of any company or freelancer I've hired..

Talk about a mind fuck.
 
Paid a professional company that's been around for awhile $2K for 1 homepage PSD to be coded, it was basic. Text, images and links, nothing fancy.. Came back looking like pure shit, seriously the worst live design/code imaginable.. Looked nothing like the PSD I sent.. I think it broke 2500 lines of code, lol.. Should have been way under 400.

Doesn't matter who I pay, I've had the same experiences at every pay grade.. Those $4/HR India guys have actually had the best coding to date out of any company or freelancer I've hired..

Talk about a mind fuck.

'Professional' companies are usually the worst as you're paying for their fancy iMacs, office space and advertising, while the actual work is being done by the $4/hr guys.

Good HTML/PHP/CSS coding isn't a particularly rare skill, so you really should be able to find good ones on Odesk/Elance. I've managed to find quite a few who write excellent code at quite good rates. Aside from minor text changes where your graphic designer used a non web friendly font you shouldn't be noticing major changes in your design at all. PM me if you want a referral
 
Probably working from a 15" screen and don't consider what happens on larger monitors.

Now all the rage is responsive design for all those fucking mobiles.
 
Paid a professional company that's been around for awhile $2K for 1 homepage PSD to be coded, it was basic. Text, images and links, nothing fancy.. Came back looking like pure shit, seriously the worst live design/code imaginable.. Looked nothing like the PSD I sent.. I think it broke 2500 lines of code, lol.. Should have been way under 400.

Doesn't matter who I pay, I've had the same experiences at every pay grade.. Those $4/HR India guys have actually had the best coding to date out of any company or freelancer I've hired..

Talk about a mind fuck.

You must be extremely unlucky for some reason, in this matter then.. Tried making a template for vBulletin once from psd, looked fine, except had some problems in IE
 
'Professional' companies are usually the worst as you're paying for their fancy iMacs, office space and advertising, while the actual work is being done by the $4/hr guys.

Good HTML/PHP/CSS coding isn't a particularly rare skill, so you really should be able to find good ones on Odesk/Elance. I've managed to find quite a few who write excellent code at quite good rates. Aside from minor text changes where your graphic designer used a non web friendly font you shouldn't be noticing major changes in your design at all.

Yeah I gave up on companies, unless it's an ultra-complex job where I can complain and be taken seriously.. Seems like it's all outsourced anyways or the in-house "code team" is in college..

I've had a lot of luck with the $4/hr guys, so have just been working with them lately... The designs are so close, but we always hit a snag when it comes to spacing.. It's like it's 95% perfect, but the spacing is wrong, and maybe a few minor things here or there..

I'm not sure if it's something on my end, their computer screens, or what... Would love to hear from a coder, how this even happens? I don't really know the reason to be honest..

Oh well. :(
 
I use xhtmlchop and their shit is perfect. cleanest css and xhtml code I've ever seen.
 
Well if it performs differently in different browsers you need to make sure you have the right doctype and then check that it validates without errors.

Some errors are fine but with JS it isn't strict so sometimes shit works even though it shouldn't and people don't even know they're doing it wrong. In other languages it just won't compile but a browser will at least try to run js even if it's all fucked.

BTW you can press F12 to open the console in most browsers and see what element is doing what. And the console will tell you about any errors arising.
 
I'm not sure if it's something on my end, their computer screens, or what... Would love to hear from a coder, how this even happens? I don't really know the reason to be honest..

Oh well. :(

Save As > Web Page, Complete
 
There is actually a really logical reason for this, it's a bit difficult to explain, but since your PSD is initially an IMAGE, actually coding it out to look exactly that way requires extensive knowledge in CSS, HTML, and positioning. It took me years to get it down perfect, that's why I charge a lot, and usually turn down 95% of the work thrown at me.

IF the website designer who created the PSD just created it without taking into consideration whether whatever they created is even possible without lots of additional code, the quote that you were given was most likely too low for them to care about ALL the details. It sucks, I tried outsourcing some of my designs a couple of times, and they come back as if these idiots didn't even look at the PSD. BUT that was because there was a lack of web development and implementation knowledge and know how on their side.

I'm a firm believer that website designers also need to be able to code out what they are designing. If they can't it's like an architect making a building in a "C" shape and giving it to the builder to make it work. It is not structurally sound, and it would be nearly impossible for the builder to build it correctly. But these dumbass website designers coming out of college who have never edited html think their designs look cool, and it's up to the coder to implement them. It works both ways, idiots. You can't give a spaceship design to someone that builds race cars.

If a website designer can't code, I pass on them. That usually reduces the field by 98%, because there are very rare few that can code correctly, fully know CSS, HTML, javascript, and functionality to make a website design work AND have a great design as well.

Somewhere along the line, I don't know where, but website designers stopped coding, and left that up to coders, which baffles me. In my definition of a website designer, they should be able to code their designs, otherwise they are just a fucking illustrator. Maybe programming javascript is not necessary, but basic understanding of CSS. html, and delivering a barebone skeleton html to a client should always be a requirement. I've got enough skills to chop up a PSD and make it look like the actual mockup, I've rarely seen that in all my years, and when I do find someone that can do that, I latch onto them.

There also is a lack of understanding from a consumer standpoint of deliverables of a website and what a quote consist of. Most people don't have a great understanding of what it takes to get a real website up, so the only gauge they have is pricing. So when they can't tell what coding is quality and what's shit, they'll just haggle over pricing, so now it's an industry where the cheapest quote gets the job. But that also means the best designers/coders end up doing their own thing and not even entering the market, like me, since all the end consumers know is "low price", "my nephew can code a website and he is 16". I make sure all my code is W3C validated. All html elements are valid. The CSS is valid. The website is cross browser compatible, and the code is clean and minimal. Plus it's lightweight for speed, and all the images are compressed and speed optimized. Is your 16 year old nephew going to do all that, or even understand why I do what I do? Do they even know what the gzip compression codes does in the .htaccess file?

For me at least, it's gotten to the point where I do all my design, coding, and implementation for my own projects, and turn down any other projects, just too much of a hassle to deal with people that don't know what they are doing.

If you claim to be a website designer and can't code, you're a waste of space. If you claim to be a coder but can't design, you've got some uses, like updating websites, but you're not a professional in my opinion. It's not a difficult job, a website designer should create a design then make it live. What the fuck is so difficult that you need 3 people to do the job of 1 person?​
 
IF the website designer who created the PSD just created it without taking into consideration whether whatever they created is even possible without lots of additional code​

..OR without having to create massive images, which increases load time...

Anyhow, I agree.. Knowing how to code is important if you're a designer. That doesn't mean you have to take on the coding aspect every project, but minding the design process based on the html/css process is important and does affect design.

And yeah, all the rage is responsive web design now. It's not all that scray once you realize (if you have coding experience especially) it's just the equivalent of a series of IF statements in the actual CSS; though it does affect the design process even more so if you're coding for responsive.
 
There is actually a really logical reason for this, it's a bit difficult to explain, but since your PSD is initially an IMAGE, actually coding it out to look exactly that way requires extensive knowledge in CSS, HTML, and positioning. It took me years to get it down perfect, that's why I charge a lot, and usually turn down 95% of the work thrown at me.

IF the website designer who created the PSD just created it without taking into consideration whether whatever they created is even possible without lots of additional code, the quote that you were given was most likely too low for them to care about ALL the details. It sucks, I tried outsourcing some of my designs a couple of times, and they come back as if these idiots didn't even look at the PSD. BUT that was because there was a lack of web development and implementation knowledge and know how on their side.

I'm a firm believer that website designers also need to be able to code out what they are designing. If they can't it's like an architect making a building in a "C" shape and giving it to the builder to make it work. It is not structurally sound, and it would be nearly impossible for the builder to build it correctly. But these dumbass website designers coming out of college who have never edited html think their designs look cool, and it's up to the coder to implement them. It works both ways, idiots. You can't give a spaceship design to someone that builds race cars.

If a website designer can't code, I pass on them. That usually reduces the field by 98%, because there are very rare few that can code correctly, fully know CSS, HTML, javascript, and functionality to make a website design work AND have a great design as well.

Somewhere along the line, I don't know where, but website designers stopped coding, and left that up to coders, which baffles me. In my definition of a website designer, they should be able to code their designs, otherwise they are just a fucking illustrator. Maybe programming javascript is not necessary, but basic understanding of CSS. html, and delivering a barebone skeleton html to a client should always be a requirement. I've got enough skills to chop up a PSD and make it look like the actual mockup, I've rarely seen that in all my years, and when I do find someone that can do that, I latch onto them.

There also is a lack of understanding from a consumer standpoint of deliverables of a website and what a quote consist of. Most people don't have a great understanding of what it takes to get a real website up, so the only gauge they have is pricing. So when they can't tell what coding is quality and what's shit, they'll just haggle over pricing, so now it's an industry where the cheapest quote gets the job. But that also means the best designers/coders end up doing their own thing and not even entering the market, like me, since all the end consumers know is "low price", "my nephew can code a website and he is 16". I make sure all my code is W3C validated. All html elements are valid. The CSS is valid. The website is cross browser compatible, and the code is clean and minimal. Plus it's lightweight for speed, and all the images are compressed and speed optimized. Is your 16 year old nephew going to do all that, or even understand why I do what I do? Do they even know what the gzip compression codes does in the .htaccess file?

For me at least, it's gotten to the point where I do all my design, coding, and implementation for my own projects, and turn down any other projects, just too much of a hassle to deal with people that don't know what they are doing.

If you claim to be a website designer and can't code, you're a waste of space. If you claim to be a coder but can't design, you've got some uses, like updating websites, but you're not a professional in my opinion. It's not a difficult job, a website designer should create a design then make it live. What the fuck is so difficult that you need 3 people to do the job of 1 person?​

I hit up CCarter on Skype a few times. I have tried my damndest to be friends with him. I even told him that he "must" be my friend. I was practicing the art of suggestion. He didn't fall for it. All I got was this lousy T-shirt.

Anyways, I don't know shit about coding, but I have a designer that holds high standards towards it. I always wonder why he gives a shit about this stuff. Now I know. Just reading this thread reinforces my thought towards it.

Great discussion.

Yo...CCarter...call me.
 
And yeah, all the rage is responsive web design now. It's not all that scray once you realize (if you have coding experience especially) it's just the equivalent of a series of IF statements in the actual CSS; though it does affect the design process even more so if you're coding for responsive.

Which BTW does not mean every design needs a pixel perfect responsive design. Everybody wants to be trendy. But at the end of the day making sure you're not sticking square pegs in round holes is what matters
 
I still don't understand this...

Granted I'm not a great coder, I'm curious to know why when I design a normal web page PSD on a grid and it's all lined up.. Somehow it comes back out of whack with bad spacing.. Have had this issue with every coding company I've dealt with, including freelancers.. And it's not just text or images, it's background pieces, everything, etc..

Also 1K posts, will make another thread about it later..

Converting a PSD to HTML / CSS isn't coding.
 
A proper front end developer will take the design, and recreate it in HTML/CSS and JS - WITH an eye towards it actually being usable.

If you just want everything spaced exactly the same, use a fucking image. Proper development is about the user, across multiple platforms and devices, all of which do things a little differently.

I for example, ignore stupid spacing, bad line heights, etc and create a harmonious rhythm that allows the end user to actually use the layout.

You paid $2k for a SINGLE page of HTML/CSS?
images