U.S. Citizenship To Kids Of Illegal Immigrants?

J

JakeStratham

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Oct 28, 2009
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The Issue:

Illegal immigrants drop their babies on U.S. soil. The 14th Amendment says (essentially) "All persons born or naturalized in the United States" are considered citizens.

The Problem:

A lot of folks in the U.S. don't feel the same, especially given entitlement programs, the deficit, and whatever else they can pin on illegals. Arizona is expected to introduce legislation tomorrow. [1]

Where are you guys on this? Think we should give the kids citizenship based on the text of the 14th Amendment, or deport 'em to the home countries of their parents?

It's a quandary for those who believe we should follow the text of the U.S. Constitution, but want the illegals gone.

No poll. Polls suck. [2]


[1] no surprise there.

[2] one drive-by vote kicks the thread to the top. Great for narcissists. Bad for the rest of us.
 


I think your immigrant ancestors were hated and despised by the people here before them too. But I guess you've forgotten that along with everything else America stands for.
 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1T75jBYeCs]YouTube - Stephen Colbert Opening Statement[/ame]
 
I understand where both sides are coming from and both sides make good points, but something needs to be changed in order to deal with it somehow. We can't leave the way it is.

Its like if your neighbor walked on to your yard and took a shit and left. Now you have to take care of that little shit.
 
creativepart said:
I think your immigrant ancestors were hated and despised by the people here before them too. But I guess you've forgotten that along with everything else America stands for.
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My immigrant ancestors came legally, fuck you. Ellis Island.
 
There are 2 types of people who bitch about mexicans coming across the border.

1. People who are dependent on the welfare state and bitch about the pie being divided up among more people.

2. People who pay for the welfare state and bitch about having more people to take care of.

Both groups seem to miss the idea that the problem is the welfare state, not the Mexicans. If a mexican family wants to come and work thats great. It supports economic growth. It lowers consumer prices, and increases the supply of goods we want.

Exploiting the system to ones benefit is human nature, and more regulation won't change that. Kill the welfare system.
 
A point of clarification:

This issue does not address immigration. Nor does it directly address illegal immigration. It targets the dilemma of whether illegals' kids who are born on U.S. soil should be denied citizenship given the 14th Amendment.

The 14th Amendment is pretty clear. And it hasn't been repealed. Trouble is, it was meant to address citizenship for freed slaves (as I recall). The only slaves today are those who pay taxes.* And most us are already citizens.



* see what I did there?
 
JakeStratham said:
A point of clarification:

This issue does not address immigration. Nor does it directly address illegal immigration. It targets the dilemma of whether illegals' kids who are born on U.S. soil should be denied citizenship given the 14th Amendment.

The 14th Amendment is pretty clear. And it hasn't been repealed. Trouble is, it was meant to address citizenship for freed slaves. The only slaves today are those who pay taxes.* And most us are already citizens.



* see what I did there?
Click to expand...

Leave it as is, just add anchor baby amendment. If their parents came in illegally, they can't collect any benefits from their children being US citizens.
 
Ar Scion said:
Leave it as is, just add anchor baby amendment. If their parents came in illegally, they can't collect any benefits from their children being US citizens.
Click to expand...

Interesting idea. Two questions:

1. How would you address citizenship for the kids already here? I'm uncertain of the number, but BusinessWeek had this to say in mid-2009:

All told, federal law (not the Constitution) gives citizenship to an estimated minimum 400,000 babies each year who don’t have even one parent who is a U.S. citizen or permanent legal immigrant.
Click to expand...

2. Suppose we did away with entitlement programs.* Given this, would you be willing to grant future kids born on U.S. soil citizenship based on the 14th Amendment?



* An idea Hammi's post touches upon.
 
Q: Dr. Friedman should the U.S.A. open its borders to all immigrants? What is your opinion on that?

A: Unfortunately no. You cannot simultaneously have free immigration and a welfare state.
 
JakeStratham said:
Interesting idea. Two questions:

1. How would you address citizenship for the kids already here? I'm uncertain of the number, but BusinessWeek had this to say in mid-2009:



2. Suppose we did away with entitlement programs.* Given this, would you be willing to grant future kids born on U.S. soil citizenship based on the 14th Amendment?



* An idea Hammi's post touches upon.
Click to expand...

1. Let the kids stay citizens. Their parents need to wait 18 years to be sponsored. That's stupidly long for chain migration and not even worth the hassle.

2. They would always have citizenship. It's their parents who wouldn't be able to benefit by abusing the system.

The bottom line is we have so many fuckwit lazy ass American citizens in the US, what have they done to deserve this country more than a hard working foreigner who is willing to sweat and slog his way though to become somebody?

America is a meritocracy, not a fuckin monarchy. I don't care what color your skin is, what your name is, where you're from. If you're a good person who will contribute to the economy and society and stay out of our prisons, we want you here.

It's not about taking American jobs, we want these fuckers to create jobs too. Go ahead, start another 7/11. Hire unemployed Americans and boost our GDP while you're at it.

Fuckin sick of the xenophobia in some places. I don't mean you specifically. I mean all the "We hate Mexicans" bullshit thats cropping up.
 
It's just fucking insane. You have to be born of an American to be an American citizen (with the exception of other standard ways to become a citizen). Or at least that's how it should be. Citizenship is earned. You're not entitled to citizenship just because your illegal mother pooped you out her ass across a line on a map. You don't see pregnant women hopping over to France and giving birth there so their kids can call themselves French citizens now do you? Sorry fuckwits, but it doesn't work like that. They were Mexican citizens when they had the child so their children are Mexican citizens. It doesn't matter if they were born in Africa or on the moon.
 
Illegals can come and work in factories for 8 years at a lower wage then workers in China. All that cool stuff made in China is now made in the USA. So many problems solved.
 
Ar Scion said:
Fuckin sick of the xenophobia in some places. I don't mean you specifically. I mean all the "We hate Mexicans" bullshit thats cropping up.
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I could care less about race and Illegals [people]. What I care about are them not paying taxes and sending the majority of their money out of the country.

The Richest Man in the World right now made his money selling telecommunications services to the Illegals to call home with. They'd get phone cards, etc. These same people do business in those little Hispanic food marts, which of course get all their products from Mexico. It's likely they don't report all their gross income, and that gets sent over to Mexico. So, they buy stuff from Mexico, send money back to Mexico, and the never ending cycle of them taking money from our economy and filtering it back to Mexico continues.

Honestly, if our country would get rid of everything but Sales Tax, it'd solve everyone's problems with Illegals and everyone would contribute their fair share. Well, much more than they are now.
 
Ar Scion said:
1. Let the kids stay citizens. Their parents need to wait 18 years to be sponsored. That's stupidly long for chain migration and not even worth the hassle.
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Our laws do have a few problems. Namely, there are too many of them.

Ar Scion said:
2. They would always have citizenship. It's their parents who wouldn't be able to benefit by abusing the system.
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Whenever I see the word "system," I think "taxation." It is discouraging that there is a system to be abused in the first place. By anyone.


Ar Scion said:
Fuckin sick of the xenophobia in some places. I don't mean you specifically. I mean all the "We hate Mexicans" bullshit thats cropping up.
Click to expand...

I'm "immigrant-friendly." Spent most of my life around immigrants. Some legal, others not. As you said, they work very hard. I go back a few years. The ones I've known would not be able to reconcile taking handouts. It wasn't/isn't in their character.


sapphirescales said:
your illegal mother pooped you out her ass across a line on a map.
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That is a serious medical issue, and should be addressed ASAP.
 
Rexibit said:
I could care less about race and Illegals [people]. What I care about are them not paying taxes and sending the majority of their money out of the country.

The Richest Man in the World right now made his money selling telecommunications services to the Illegals to call home with. They'd get phone cards, etc. These same people do business in those little Hispanic food marts, which of course get all their products from Mexico. It's likely they don't report all their gross income, and that gets sent over to Mexico. So, they buy stuff from Mexico, send money back to Mexico, and the never ending cycle of them taking money from our economy and filtering it back to Mexico continues.

Honestly, if our country would get rid of everything but Sales Tax, it'd solve everyone's problems with Illegals and everyone would contribute their fair share. Well, much more than they are now.
Click to expand...

They pay sales tax, they pay property tax, but they don't pay income or payroll tax. Not because they're intent on defrauding the system, but because their employers hire them illegally and pay them under the table.

We can go after the employers, but the employers (at least in agriculture) say Americans won't take farm jobs.
 
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