How much does Shoemoney pay Dillsmack?
- Thread starter arz
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Hmm thats a tough one, wonder why he stays
Probably a combination of being in a nice comfort zone, and if he actually did try to dick shoemoney over, it's not hard to imagine there'd be significant consequences.
In regards to outsourcing programmers in general, sure, some might try and steal your stuff, but for the most part they don't have the skill set to really make it worth their while. From a strictly business point of view, it's generally not worth it to ruin what has the potential to be a) a recurring client and b) a solid reference for other work. And if someone rips someone off once, word travels fast enough that they're more than likely done programming for good (online at least).
I have know dillsmack for about 10 years online through IRC but he started working for me about 3 just as a hourly employee. I really forget the rate. Quickly he proved he was a lot like me in that he was obsessive about his work and did whatever it took to get the job done... work nights/weekends whatever.
After about 3 months or so of that arrangement we "partnered" on some sites where we did some revenue splits... that kind of was hard to work out but we made it work.
then about a 1.5 years ago I made a contract to where he got a nice yearly salary plus revenue sharing.
He has been offered a lot of money to work for other people but remains loyal.
We work hard, we party hard, and we make cool stuff that makes money on the interweb in the mean time.
After about 3 months or so of that arrangement we "partnered" on some sites where we did some revenue splits... that kind of was hard to work out but we made it work.
then about a 1.5 years ago I made a contract to where he got a nice yearly salary plus revenue sharing.
He has been offered a lot of money to work for other people but remains loyal.
We work hard, we party hard, and we make cool stuff that makes money on the interweb in the mean time.
So if you don't mind me asking since we have you here. I hate using these stupid corporate terms and every time I hear them in meetings I laugh and think "Office Space", but how much do you think you'd attribute Dillsmack's and your arrangement to a bit of Synergy?
I'm a survivor of the .bomb era so I've seen a lot of failed business and their respective partnerships. It's a tough thing to do and I only know of 1 person I'd ever partner in business with.
I personally wouldn't take a programming job for less than $100/ho, even if all my sites went under and I had no income. Considering you can push out about 30 productive hours during a week, and work about 48 weeks a year, that comes out at about $144k/year. Subtract taxes, insurance, equipment, "office space" (even if it's your home), holidays, it really isn't that big of a salary at all. Plus, working from home sucks... when I did it, sitting at home day after day writing code for your boss who was also pretty much the only person you interact with during all that time, I left like I was losing out on life.
tbh, seeing my boss make shitloads of money was the reason why I stopped programming for other people and started making websites for myself. He was flaunting around how he made $100k from sites he sold previously, and I just thought "wait, wtf, there is no big ass secret here, I'm doing all the work and he gets most of the money, that isn't right". I have to be thankful though, now, just 8 months later I'm doing $500/day with about 2 hours of work. I didn't for one second think of screwing him over though, I think the overwhelming majority of programmers don't have that mindset, and when they want to screw someone over, they just have too much programming stuff to do to bother.
tbh, seeing my boss make shitloads of money was the reason why I stopped programming for other people and started making websites for myself. He was flaunting around how he made $100k from sites he sold previously, and I just thought "wait, wtf, there is no big ass secret here, I'm doing all the work and he gets most of the money, that isn't right". I have to be thankful though, now, just 8 months later I'm doing $500/day with about 2 hours of work. I didn't for one second think of screwing him over though, I think the overwhelming majority of programmers don't have that mindset, and when they want to screw someone over, they just have too much programming stuff to do to bother.
The last time I was on a W2 was back in 2002. I hit the same situation you did. My last meeting had me walking into Nissan (the car company) and pitching a site to them. They loved what I had put together (a mock up with screen shots) and signed off on the deal. The company I was working for at the time had a $125K price tag on the site and were worried about if they could actually build what I had proposed. The site was just an eCommerce site, no bells or whistles to speak off. I could have built the site on my own in about 2 weeks from scratch, charged the customer $10-20K and been plenty happy. That's just one of the reasons I went Solo. I agree on the rate but the internet dillutes it when you can hire programmers in foreign countries for penny's per hour.
As a programmer with business aspirations (currently learning the ropes of the AM game), I look at it from both angles.
As an employer I'd agree with all of the concerns mentioned here. As a programmer however, I stand to be robbed/taken advantage by my employer just the same. He/She could run off with all the code I spent a month busting my brains to create without paying me a cent, simply by changing an ftp password. I would be especially concerned about an employer with programming knowledge who could very easily take over from where I left off.
I've thought of partnering up with someone on a revenue share basis but face the same problem of finding an honest legitmate partner.
I guess at the end of the day, it'll all boil down to trust and respect.
If the right opportunity came by, I'd at least consider it.
The reason I think Dillsmack and have stayed business partners is because they realize that once you make a certain amount of money, money becomes secondary on your wants and needs lists. cause to be honest, time, health, happinness and all that other stuff is more important. sappy i know but true
It's true the internet dilutes reality, but getting a good programmer in a foreign country isn't really that much cheaper. An Indian programmer who knows what he's talking about would still charge at least $30/ho, which isn't really all that low.
And getting a $100/ho rate even on jobs advertised on sitepoint is easy... look for standard websites that go for about $1k - $2k, ecommerce sites, gaming sites, etc. If you've worked in the industry for some time, chances are you have at least half a dozen of these type of sites lying around, and lets admit it, from a coding standpoint nearly all websites are pretty much the same. From then on you just pass the HTML coding to some guy to code the page for $100, use a templating system to implement it into your CMS, make the small changes needed to personalize the site, and you're ready to go, a $1k site in 10 hours or less. Very easy and very boring. Back when I did coding jobs I practiced this all the time, charging one client $35/ho for a full day of work when I had all the work already done, just for another client. Easy to get free, full paid holidays.
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