London Anarchy

cheesewhiz said:
Every home in Switzerland is required to have a fully auto weapon and is given ammo by the government. Gun crime there is almost nonexistent.
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LOLOL

given ammo by the government? REQUIRED to have a fully auto weapon? WTF are you on?!

There is no requirement. The guys who get to keep their gun at home are swiss citizens who have served in the army. Reason for this? Switzerland small, full of mountains and difficult terrain. In the event of an invasion there wouldn't be enough time to mobilize and arm the whole army.

Besides, the government doesn't just "give" ammo away. They have started to make sure that the soldiers don't take any ammo home after one of them shot an innocent girl waiting for the bus for the lulz a few years ago.

Get your facts right. Switzerland has no gun crime because most of the people don't need to commit crimes to survive. And hey, they take care of the poor and still manage to keep low taxes. How? It's called efficiency.
 


@nickster: it's clear you aren't changing your opinion... What do you think is the solution to shop owners getting their stores looted if guns aren't an option? How would you defend your property?
 
ricdes said:
LOLOL

given ammo by the government? REQUIRED to have a fully auto weapon? WTF are you on?!

There is no requirement. The guys who get to keep their gun at home are swiss citizens who have served in the army. Reason for this? Switzerland small, full of mountains and difficult terrain. In the event of an invasion there wouldn't be enough time to mobilize and arm the whole army.

Besides, the government doesn't just "give" ammo away. They have started to make sure that the soldiers don't take any ammo home after one of them shot an innocent girl waiting for the bus for the lulz a few years ago.

Get your facts right. Switzerland has no gun crime because most of the people don't need to commit crimes to survive. And hey, they take care of the poor and still manage to keep low taxes. How? It's called efficiency.
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My fault, should have fact checked myself.

From Wikipedia:

Switzerland practices universal conscription, which requires that all able-bodied male citizens keep fully automatic firearms at home in case of a call-up. Every male between the ages of 20 and 34 is considered a candidate for conscription into the military, and following a brief period of active duty will commonly be enrolled in the militia until age or an inability to serve ends his service obligation.[44] During their enrollment in the armed forces, these men are required to keep their government-issued selective fire combat rifles and semi-automatic handguns in their homes.[45] Up until September 2007, soldiers also received 50 rounds of government-issued ammunition in a sealed box for storage at home.


This still demonstrates that an armed population doesn't always lead to higher gun crime.
 
lukep said:
I'm a gun owner but I've lived in London.
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I don't get your point.

The fact of the matter is that the WORLD needs its' citizens to own guns until the WORLD has solved the problem of lower classes existing.
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Utter tripe.

As long as your society has its' dregs, there will always be seemingly infinite "bad guys" produced by poverty and lack of education. These people can't afford as many guns as the citizenry can, so it's ALWAYS to the citizen's advantage to allow guns in that society. The CITIZENS win in that scenario, but when you take the guns away from the citizens it's the BAD GUYS who win instead... No matter how hard you make it for them to get guns. (Because they always do so and can even make them.)
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That clearly works very well in the US.

Northern Europe, being more educated in general than the rest of the world, has pretty much fooled itself into believing that their society has evolved enough to no longer need those barbaric guns.

The fact of the matter is though, that their society still has its' dregs. If not, then explain this riot.

First educate the REST of your society and then, maybe then a gunless citizenry will be right for your little island... But the only way to really do it right is to not allow anyone in when you enact that law... Because the rest of the entire planet will be like Dregs to you at that point.
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Not sure why you are calling it my "little island", I don't live in the UK (although I have done for a couple of years in the past) and never said I do.

The point is that there are dregs, not that there are not and no one says or thinks that there are not. What I am saying is not to put guns into the hands of the dregs.

OMG that sounds stupid... Let me get this straight; you want to take your uneducated lawbreakers and put guns in their hands and then force them to go into touchy situations as ambassadors for your country, representing you and your interests?
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I am saying it should be used as a deterrent. In my opinion it would cut this type of crime down to very low levels without having to actually conscript many people as these lazy slobs would do anything not to have to do any hard work and have people telling them what to do on a daily basis.
 
nickster said:
Taken from the article you linked to - "In 2009 - the latest year for which detailed statistics are available - there were 13,636 murders in the US. Of those, 9,146 were caused by firearms."

That is two thirds of all murders were caused by firearms!!
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I'd rather be killed by a firearm than stabbed 50 times or beaten with a bat to death.. so what's your point?

Killers gonna kill.
 
nickster said:
No it doesn't. They are not civilians.
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Also from the wiki article:

"In addition to these official weapons, Swiss citizens are allowed to purchase surplus-to-inventory combat rifles, and shooting is a popular sport in all the Swiss cantons."

So not only is legal as a civilian to own a gun in Switzerland, but the government will sell you their surplus combat rifles. Granted I'm not Swiss so I have no first hand experience but this sure seems like promoting gun ownership (or at least tolerating it to a high degree).

Regardless, the only thing gun control does is restrict honest citizens from protecting themselves and their families against armed criminals (who will have guns whether they're legal or not).
 
nickster said:
I don't get your point.
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QFT. -The only semi-intelligent words you've written on this page...


nickster said:
That {letting citizens have guns} clearly works very well in the US.
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Put it in perspective; Imagine the carnage we'd have right now if suddenly all of our citizens magically didn't have guns anymore yet thousands of evildoers still had theirs... Would you want to stand for that?

That is what it would be like if we never had legal guns here.


nickster said:
Not sure why you are calling it my "little island", I don't live in the UK (although I have done for a couple of years in the past) and never said I do.
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Sorry, Jeeves! Where are you, anyway?


nickster said:
The point is that there are dregs, not that there are not and no one says or thinks that there are not. What I am saying is not to put guns into the hands of the dregs.
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Wow you are thick.

The Dregs WILL & DO have them. If guns really do not exist around them then some entrepreneurial lowlife will find a way to fabricate guns (It's not rocket science!) and distribute them there to all of the more successful dregs.

It's true that if they were easier to get ahold of then today's brit mob would be a little better armed like the Rodney King mob became, but then the bobbies would in turn be authorized to use deadly force to break up this mob.

That in turn would have very quickly killed the uprising... It wouldn't have lasted past the 2nd night. Here's how this scenario plays out in the long run:

Total fatalities without guns:
Innocents: 50 (Killed defending their home over weeks)
Mobfools: 2

Total Fatlities WITH guns:
Innocents: 2
Mobfools: 8 (All killed by police in 1 night)

So is that what you'd prefer?


nickster said:
I am saying it should be used as a deterrent. In my opinion it would cut this type of crime down to very low levels without having to actually conscript many people as these lazy slobs would do anything not to have to do any hard work and have people telling them what to do on a daily basis.
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Since you can't know which kids are going to be the bad guys before they are already the bad guys, you are advocating nothing less than state-enforced Military service for everyone. Is that also what you'd prefer?
 
nickster said:
If you allow guns in the UK then murder rate WILL go up, full stop. The only way you can't see this is if you have been conditioned that owning a gun is your right and is necessary to protect you and your family. If you haven't been conditioned to believe that you can see that it's completely ridiculous and a total fallacy.
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This is unproven speculation, and again, the total numbers available to us show an opposite corrolation.

List of countries by gun ownership - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at all the relatively peaceful European countries in the top 15 for small firearm ownership, while Russia is 68th, yet has much higher murder rates.

pdf file -http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

Read that if you have time. At least look at Table 1 on the 4th page.

One of the things they point out, was that after the Civil War, the US was awash with guns way more than before - yet homicide rates declined.
 
only pussies kill people with guns ... here in the rock, we wound them before finishing it off with our bare hands.

Flash looting, maybe. Prolonged riots ... no way, not in my state. I would eat their assholes alive. I would fuck them till they loved me ... faggots
 
lukep said:
Put it in perspective; Imagine the carnage we'd have right now if suddenly all of our citizens magically didn't have guns anymore yet thousands of evildoers still had theirs... Would you want to stand for that?
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That's a totally different scenario. The debate isn't about whether you should impose stricter gun control after years of a large proportion of the population having guns, it's about whether you should allow the population to get guns easily in the first place.

lukep said:
Total fatalities without guns:
Innocents: 50 (Killed defending their home over weeks)
Mobfools: 2

Total Fatlities WITH guns:
Innocents: 2
Mobfools: 8 (All killed by police in 1 night)

So is that what you'd prefer?
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To paraphrase, you're saying money is more important than human life?


Moxie said:
This is unproven speculation, and again, the total numbers available to us show an opposite corrolation.

List of countries by gun ownership - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at all the relatively peaceful European countries in the top 15 for small firearm ownership, while Russia is 68th, yet has much higher murder rates.

pdf file -http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

Read that if you have time. At least look at Table 1 on the 4th page.

One of the things they point out, was that after the Civil War, the US was awash with guns way more than before - yet homicide rates declined.
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About to go to bed, so haven't got time to read the second link, but in the first link, glancing through the list, at least a third of the top 15 have significantly high murder rates.
 
-joe- said:
To paraphrase, you're saying money is more important than human life?
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He is obviously saying that 50 innocents are more important than 8 thugs. Which is an obvious statement. If you associate yourself with a violent uprising you deserve to be put down...
 
mattseh said:
Police in Manchester seem to be doing a good job, going after the thugs, helped some friends escape the centre this evening.

BBC: "MANCHESTER = WARZONE" bad shit brahs
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I live in the city centre, shit went down. Lines of riot vans going past my apartment all night. Had a friend who had to escape out the back door of spar when they started kicking the doors down.

Was only a matter of time before Manchester caught on after the other cities, thugs be jealous.
 
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