USPS paying people $25/hour to do nothing, unions, etc
- Thread starter potentialeight
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Technology killed the USPS. They failed because they continue and will continue under a dead business model. They should have grown with the technology like online mail, bill pay, digital po boxes Etc this is the future and the way customers operate now. Nobody to blame but themselves. Fire the director and staff to accomodate the current supply/demand.
Some schlub shows up to work at 8am and the mail sort machine is down until 10 am so 5 guys get paid to sit around 2 hours? WTF do you guys expect to happen? It's not their fault.
Or these guys are guaranteed 40 hours of work per week and they finish up their job in 7.25 hours each day so they get 2 hours of extra pay per week?
Your local police department probably paid more in paid leave of absence than this bullshit.
Or these guys are guaranteed 40 hours of work per week and they finish up their job in 7.25 hours each day so they get 2 hours of extra pay per week?
Your local police department probably paid more in paid leave of absence than this bullshit.
Thanks for that link, your highness!
I just learned a shitload about my family in there. Good stuff.
I am happy to debate some concept of the "true meaning of unions" with anyone.
Now you guys define what the "true meaning of unions" means.
Moxie?
How about:
Trade union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As you can see, many of things you criticize are not intrinsic to unions. Furthermore, union bashing is something the banking elites you so hate, absolutely love.
They love anything that takes power away from people.
Your bashing of unions is like people who bash conspiracies. Most 'conspiracies' are far out. But there are plenty of real conspiracies. The pejorative association attached to the word conspiracy is very much in the interest of the new feudal lords. Just like the pejorative association they try to create with the word unions.
Any time power is created it can be abused.
Workers under unfair conditions originally tried to get a little power to protect themselves and the first Unions were born.
Then the stone ages were over, and the bronze age ensued...
By that time the Unions were just as evil as the worst corporation out there, using their power to extort, cheat, and outright STEAL from others just like any other large source of power.
Workers under unfair conditions originally tried to get a little power to protect themselves and the first Unions were born.
Then the stone ages were over, and the bronze age ensued...
By that time the Unions were just as evil as the worst corporation out there, using their power to extort, cheat, and outright STEAL from others just like any other large source of power.
That is a long article and doesn't seem to definitively define the term. You claimed there is an ideal form of union, and I have asked you to define it.
Such as?
Guilt by association isn't an argument. It's actually a very low form of logical fallacy.
Who are "the people"?
Actually, my criticism is rooted in economic analysis and historical record.
You should know better than to accuse me of making some short-sighted or emotional argument about unions. That's never been my style.
How about you stop hand-waving at this discussion and say something substantive?
A union is nothing more than the employees uniting and saying "If you don't do this, we'll quit". One employee can't dictate terms to his employer; what makes people think all of them united can?
This is why you see the insanity in France where the government runs so many industries that when the unions strike, it can be devastating. They can literally bring France to a standstill. And believe me, they would do it here if they could. Imagine all of Obamacare's employees striking? Yeah, baby.
I say there's only one response the minute an employee thinks he can dictate terms to the person that gave him a job: You're fired.
This is why you see the insanity in France where the government runs so many industries that when the unions strike, it can be devastating. They can literally bring France to a standstill. And believe me, they would do it here if they could. Imagine all of Obamacare's employees striking? Yeah, baby.
I say there's only one response the minute an employee thinks he can dictate terms to the person that gave him a job: You're fired.
Huh? I claim there is an ideal form of union? Really? Where?
I tried to explain to you that unions are not a uniform thing. They can be bad. They can be good. They are not all the same. Maybe if you look at German union law you'd like that better. IF you look.
You are taking a specific example of unions (based on specific US unions) and using them as if they are representative of all unions. I'm pointing out that you are employing the logical fallacy of Faulty generalizations.
Not necessary. Again, please refer to the above, Faulty generalizations. In fact, in Germany it is illegal for a union to be a cartel.
Actually, your criticism is based on recent US union history. Then generalizing that as all unions.
I don't know where I criticized you of short sighted, or emotional arguments. If you could point that out, I'd love to know. The only part of emotions I mentioned is that the word union is becoming almost a pejorative like the word conspiracy, and neither of them should be a pejorative. There are people who have interest in those words having certain meanings associated to them.
I actually have a lot of respect for you. I'm sure you must have some respect for me too. We wouldn't be responding to each other if otherwise. I mean, look at a retard like lukep, no one answers his points, they are too retarded for even a guy like hellblazer.
I'm not saying there aren't real things to criticize about unions. Just like most decent red hearings have some substance to them. But they distract from the real problems that are affecting the US a hell of a lot more. That is why I brought up the powers that be.
I am not making any region or country specific generalization. If you want to continue to make that claim, then show proof.
How do they define a cartel?
Are we only discussing German unions? Is that what this thread is about? The United States Postal Service Union of Germany?
I am not talking about recent US history. If you are going to assert this, prove it with a quote.
You're refusing to address my substantive points. You have dismissed my argument as incorrect, without actually addressing my argument. Do you feel that is a good faith discussion?
Not in this thread. You're waving your hands a lot and avoiding addressing my argument.
This is another empty statement.
You need to define what a union is, because you and Moxie are trying to use a non-standard, or unique definition, which of course neither of you will clearly define, making this discussion pointless.
This is a thread about the USPS, not what Germans or the French call a union.
Could there be different forms of organization and they call it a union somewhere in the world, even if the forms are completely different, sure.
But it is horrible argumentation to apply a term to one thing, and then to apply it to its antithesis equally, and then claim your position is that sometimes a word means both.
You're a union. Moxie is a union. This thread is a union. There. There are kinds of unions which aren't cartels, monopolies or violent. Did I just make your argument?
