8 Ad Networks Sued in CA

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This whole thing just amazes me... almost beyond comprehension. Who would have thought, back in the old days, that so much could be made of so little? E-mail, "spam" or otherwise, is merely pixels on a computer screen. It has no substance. It only exists until someone deletes it. It causes no harm. I mean really... how tough is it to hit a delete button? I do it hundreds of times each day. I have NEVER been harmed by an unsolicited e-mail.

The only reason it's such an issue is because the governement, in their infinite wisdom, has seen fit to enact laws to try to regulate it. Thus, giving people like Joepublic an avenue to profit via the judicial system.

I pick up my mail at the Post Office each day. In the lobby, there is a trash can that overflows onto the floor with junk mail no one wants. That mail not only kills trees and contributes to the polution problem by filling up landfills but also consumes a huge amount of energy to produce and dispose of. It also wastes the time and resources of the postal service to deliver, although it's profitable for them.

If I bring my junk mail home to dispose of it, because I don't want the credit card applications lying in a public waste bin, I have to pay to have it hauled away.

No laws exist to regulate the amount of junk mail I get so no one sues.

There are signs and billboards dotting the landscape as well. Advertisements on bus benches, rolling billboards on trucks and bandit signs planted at every intersection. No one seems to mind these assaults on the landscape but they are more offensive to the senses than any e-mail I've ever received. I cannot simply delete them.

No laws exist to regulate how many advertising signs I have to look at, so no one sues.

I pay for satelite TV service, yet quite a few minutes out of every hour are wasted by commercial advertisements. I pay for that time. I also pay for cellular phone service and I get text message advertisements. I pay for the use of the minutes used for these incoming advertisements.

No laws exist to regulate how many TV commercials or text message ads I have to see, so no one sues.

I see people everywhere wearing clothing emblazoned with advertising. Either the makers logo or some other ad placed on the clothing. People pay for that clothing and wear it proudly. They're paying to promote a brand and, unless I walk with my head down, I'm forced to see it.

No laws exist regulating advertising on clothing so I have to look at it and no one sues.

I also pay for the government and the judicial system that allows people like Joepublic to profit from filing these "worseless" lawsuits. I'm not happy about that, either. I really wonder just who it was that lobbied so hard for these laws to make it possible for people to file lawssuits against e-mail advertisers?

My entire point is; we live in a capitalist society. Our lives are surrounded by and, in some cases, made possible by advertisements. So what's the big deal about getting an unsolicited e-mail? Hit the delete button and move on. Who really cares where they come from? If it's something someone's not interested in, they have a choice.

I don't care where an e-mail originates and I don't care if the sender tries to mask who it's from. I'm savvy enough to realize that if I see an e-mail that looks personal but is from someone not in my e-mail address list, it's likely an ad. I don't care to have the government or anyone else decide for me what I should see or what I shouldn't.

I can pick out the junk mail in my regular mailbox from a mile away. I'll bet some of it has fake return addresses and some of it even has no return address at all. There are no laws that require the senders to give me an way to opt out of getting their mail. I can sign up for the "do not call" list for telephone solicitors or sign up for a service that will cut down the amount of mailing lists I'm on but who really cares? I can hang up or toss the junk mail. I prefer making the choice myself.

Once again, no one sues.

Joe, please don't preach to me how you're going to make the Internet or the world wide web a better place. I don't buy it. It's not up to you to protect me or anyone else. You've found a way to profit from it, plain and simple. You're just fishing, by making these honey pot e-mail addresses and hoping someone will send an e-mail to one of them so you can sue.

Even if, as you say, you're not directly profiting from the lawsuits and are donating the proceeds to charity, it's still something that makes you feel like you have the power over someone else. I think it's a perversion of the judicial system. You don't like the way the alledged spammers earn their living and I'll bet they're just as unhappy about the way you make yours. I think you're even.

The Internet and the web are the modern version of the wild west and I like it just fine, just the way it is.
 


This whole thing just amazes me... almost beyond comprehension. Who would have thought, back in the old days, that so much could be made of so little? E-mail, "spam" or otherwise, is merely pixels on a computer screen. It has no substance. It only exists until someone deletes it. It causes no harm. I mean really... how tough is it to hit a delete button? I do it hundreds of times each day. I have NEVER been harmed by an unsolicited e-mail.

The only reason it's such an issue is because the governement, in their infinite wisdom, has seen fit to enact laws to try to regulate it. Thus, giving people like Joepublic an avenue to profit via the judicial system.

I pick up my mail at the Post Office each day. In the lobby, there is a trash can that overflows onto the floor with junk mail no one wants. That mail not only kills trees and contributes to the polution problem by filling up landfills but also consumes a huge amount of energy to produce and dispose of. It also wastes the time and resources of the postal service to deliver, although it's profitable for them.

If I bring my junk mail home to dispose of it, because I don't want the credit card applications lying in a public waste bin, I have to pay to have it hauled away.

No laws exist to regulate the amount of junk mail I get so no one sues.

There are signs and billboards dotting the landscape as well. Advertisements on bus benches, rolling billboards on trucks and bandit signs planted at every intersection. No one seems to mind these assaults on the landscape but they are more offensive to the senses than any e-mail I've ever received. I cannot simply delete them.

No laws exist to regulate how many advertising signs I have to look at, so no one sues.

I pay for satelite TV service, yet quite a few minutes out of every hour are wasted by commercial advertisements. I pay for that time. I also pay for cellular phone service and I get text message advertisements. I pay for the use of the minutes used for these incoming advertisements.

No laws exist to regulate how many TV commercials or text message ads I have to see, so no one sues.

I see people everywhere wearing clothing emblazoned with advertising. Either the makers logo or some other ad placed on the clothing. People pay for that clothing and wear it proudly. They're paying to promote a brand and, unless I walk with my head down, I'm forced to see it.

No laws exist regulating advertising on clothing so I have to look at it and no one sues.

I also pay for the government and the judicial system that allows people like Joepublic to profit from filing these "worseless" lawsuits. I'm not happy about that, either. I really wonder just who it was that lobbied so hard for these laws to make it possible for people to file lawssuits against e-mail advertisers?

My entire point is; we live in a capitalist society. Our lives are surrounded by and, in some cases, made possible by advertisements. So what's the big deal about getting an unsolicited e-mail? Hit the delete button and move on. Who really cares where they come from? If it's something someone's not interested in, they have a choice.

I don't care where an e-mail originates and I don't care if the sender tries to mask who it's from. I'm savvy enough to realize that if I see an e-mail that looks personal but is from someone not in my e-mail address list, it's likely an ad. I don't care to have the government or anyone else decide for me what I should see or what I shouldn't.

I can pick out the junk mail in my regular mailbox from a mile away. I'll bet some of it has fake return addresses and some of it even has no return address at all. There are no laws that require the senders to give me an way to opt out of getting their mail. I can sign up for the "do not call" list for telephone solicitors or sign up for a service that will cut down the amount of mailing lists I'm on but who really cares? I can hang up or toss the junk mail. I prefer making the choice myself.

Once again, no one sues.

Joe, please don't preach to me how you're going to make the Internet or the world wide web a better place. I don't buy it. It's not up to you to protect me or anyone else. You've found a way to profit from it, plain and simple. You're just fishing, by making these honey pot e-mail addresses and hoping someone will send an e-mail to one of them so you can sue.

Even if, as you say, you're not directly profiting from the lawsuits and are donating the proceeds to charity, it's still something that makes you feel like you have the power over someone else. I think it's a perversion of the judicial system. You don't like the way the alledged spammers earn their living and I'll bet they're just as unhappy about the way you make yours. I think you're even.

The Internet and the web are the modern version of the wild west and I like it just fine, just the way it is.

I couldn't agree with you more.
And I know that joepublic doesn't just send to charity all of his legal winnings. This is his business model and he chooses to profit by his legal exploits and nothing anyone does can change that.
 
This whole thing just amazes me... almost beyond comprehension. Who would have thought, back in the old days, that so much could be made of so little? E-mail, "spam" or otherwise, is merely pixels on a computer screen. It has no substance. It only exists until someone deletes it. It causes no harm. I mean really... how tough is it to hit a delete button? I do it hundreds of times each day. I have NEVER been harmed by an unsolicited e-mail.

The only reason it's such an issue is because the governement, in their infinite wisdom, has seen fit to enact laws to try to regulate it. Thus, giving people like Joepublic an avenue to profit via the judicial system.

I pick up my mail at the Post Office each day. In the lobby, there is a trash can that overflows onto the floor with junk mail no one wants. That mail not only kills trees and contributes to the polution problem by filling up landfills but also consumes a huge amount of energy to produce and dispose of. It also wastes the time and resources of the postal service to deliver, although it's profitable for them.

If I bring my junk mail home to dispose of it, because I don't want the credit card applications lying in a public waste bin, I have to pay to have it hauled away.

No laws exist to regulate the amount of junk mail I get so no one sues.

There are signs and billboards dotting the landscape as well. Advertisements on bus benches, rolling billboards on trucks and bandit signs planted at every intersection. No one seems to mind these assaults on the landscape but they are more offensive to the senses than any e-mail I've ever received. I cannot simply delete them.

No laws exist to regulate how many advertising signs I have to look at, so no one sues.

I pay for satelite TV service, yet quite a few minutes out of every hour are wasted by commercial advertisements. I pay for that time. I also pay for cellular phone service and I get text message advertisements. I pay for the use of the minutes used for these incoming advertisements.

No laws exist to regulate how many TV commercials or text message ads I have to see, so no one sues.

I see people everywhere wearing clothing emblazoned with advertising. Either the makers logo or some other ad placed on the clothing. People pay for that clothing and wear it proudly. They're paying to promote a brand and, unless I walk with my head down, I'm forced to see it.

No laws exist regulating advertising on clothing so I have to look at it and no one sues.

I also pay for the government and the judicial system that allows people like Joepublic to profit from filing these "worseless" lawsuits. I'm not happy about that, either. I really wonder just who it was that lobbied so hard for these laws to make it possible for people to file lawssuits against e-mail advertisers?

My entire point is; we live in a capitalist society. Our lives are surrounded by and, in some cases, made possible by advertisements. So what's the big deal about getting an unsolicited e-mail? Hit the delete button and move on. Who really cares where they come from? If it's something someone's not interested in, they have a choice.

I don't care where an e-mail originates and I don't care if the sender tries to mask who it's from. I'm savvy enough to realize that if I see an e-mail that looks personal but is from someone not in my e-mail address list, it's likely an ad. I don't care to have the government or anyone else decide for me what I should see or what I shouldn't.

I can pick out the junk mail in my regular mailbox from a mile away. I'll bet some of it has fake return addresses and some of it even has no return address at all. There are no laws that require the senders to give me an way to opt out of getting their mail. I can sign up for the "do not call" list for telephone solicitors or sign up for a service that will cut down the amount of mailing lists I'm on but who really cares? I can hang up or toss the junk mail. I prefer making the choice myself.

Once again, no one sues.

Joe, please don't preach to me how you're going to make the Internet or the world wide web a better place. I don't buy it. It's not up to you to protect me or anyone else. You've found a way to profit from it, plain and simple. You're just fishing, by making these honey pot e-mail addresses and hoping someone will send an e-mail to one of them so you can sue.

Even if, as you say, you're not directly profiting from the lawsuits and are donating the proceeds to charity, it's still something that makes you feel like you have the power over someone else. I think it's a perversion of the judicial system. You don't like the way the alledged spammers earn their living and I'll bet they're just as unhappy about the way you make yours. I think you're even.

The Internet and the web are the modern version of the wild west and I like it just fine, just the way it is.

This is a great response. I think ill file a lawsuit against the maker of the trucks that the post office uses to deliver mail since they are enabling the post office to "spam" my mailbox at home. Or maybe the paper companies who supply the paper to Capital one for all the credit card offers i get each week.
 
Let's face it, the online marketing world is held to a different standard than the offline world. Granted they did create the DNC to curb telemarketing, but nothing has been done to curb direct mail. Maybe I'm just jaded having been in this industry for 7 1/2 years and my livelihood is online marketing. However, to me direct mail is more intrusive than email marketing. I can easily hit delete and get rid of my email, but I have to open up my direct mail to realize it's another solicitation. Yet I don't complain about my direct mail and just deal with it. Outsiders of this industry need to realize that the Internet isn't free. NOTHING is free...not even those free Macy's Gift Cards, iPods, Laptops, etc that i see all over.
 
No laws exist to regulate the amount of junk mail I get so no one sues.
There are no US anti-spam laws that regulate the amount of spam you get. But as is the case with Junk snail mail, there are laws regulating how you can do it. There any number of laws regulating junk snail mail. (USPS Fraud - Prevention) It is illegal to send fraudulent snail mail. It is illegal to send fraudulent email.

No laws exist to regulate how many advertising signs I have to look at, so no one sues.
But if an advertiser comes into your house and starts painting a billboard on your wall, you can sue or have him arrested. If an advertiser comes into your business and interferes with your customers by thrusting his sign in front of their faces, you can sue or have him arrested.

No laws exist to regulate how many TV commercials or text message ads I have to see, so no one sues.
Not true, in California and in many other states, text messages ads _are_ illegal. Verizon in suing a bunch of folks for that.

My entire point is; we live in a capitalist society. Our lives are surrounded by and, in some cases, made possible by advertisements.
Absolutely. Spam laws exist to make capitalism, to make commerce work better. It is not the wild west. Telemarketers cannot cold-call me a 2 am. Doesn't matter what they're selling, they just can't do it.

Spamming is _legal_ in the U.S. All you have to do is not lie, is to be transparent and accountable.

So what's the big deal about getting an unsolicited e-mail? Hit the delete button and move on. Who really cares where they come from? If it's something someone's not interested in, they have a choice.
Because fraud, falsity and deception matter. There clearly is a substantial public interest in ensuring that "commercial electronic mail should not mislead recipients as to the source or content of such emails."

This is a great response. I think ill file a lawsuit against the maker of the trucks that the post office uses to deliver mail since they are enabling the post office to "spam" my mailbox at home. Or maybe the paper companies who supply the paper to Capital one for all the credit card offers i get each week.

And you'd be wrong to do so and your suit would get tossed out. If Publishers Clearing House calls you at 3 am that would be illegal. If Publishers Clearing House calls you using a fake caller ID phone number, that would be illegal. Legitamate advertisers don't do that. There are good reasons telemarketing has regulations against that. You can hold both PCH and the telemarketer PCH hired accountable.

I am not suing the company who made or owns the webserver software (and licenses it out, per their EULA), e.g. Microsoft. I am not suing the company who provides the internet connectivity, e.g. Invision. I am not suing the company who provides the electricity to run everything, e.g. Con Edison.

I am suing the companies who are the ones using illegal spam to make a profit.

Let's face it, the online marketing world is held to a different standard than the offline world.

There are different regulations between the two because clearly online marketing manifest different effects than that offline marketing. For example, there is no prohibitions online on what times you can contact the user to advertise. But there is substantially little difference in cost to the sender between sending a dozen emails, and a million. If I send a million UCE, even at just 1 second per recipient "to just hit delete," I've just imposed seven man-weeks of labor on the economy. By prohibiting false and misleading headers, society is attempting to preserve the utility of email for everyone, consumers and marketers alike.

Yet I don't complain about my direct mail and just deal with it.

Your direct mail follows fundamentally different cost/reward/effects curves.
 
This whole thing just amazes me... almost beyond comprehension. Who would have thought, back in the old days, that so much could be made of so little? E-mail, "spam" or otherwise, is merely pixels on a computer screen. It has no substance. It only exists until someone deletes it. It causes no harm.

That is idiotic. I waste too much time and resources every day dealing with spam mail. Claiming it does no real harm or has no real cost, either means you don't know what you are talking about or you live in a bubble.




I mean really... how tough is it to hit a delete button? I do it hundreds of times each day. I have NEVER been harmed by an unsolicited e-mail.

Clearly you don't value your time. Some of us put a high value on our own time, and messing with spam mail does nothing but waste it. There is no trade-off, there isno benefit. It is ONLY a negative thing.


The only reason it's such an issue is because the governement, in their infinite wisdom, has seen fit to enact laws to try to regulate it. Thus, giving people like Joepublic an avenue to profit via the judicial system.

Wrong again. The only reason it is an issue is because most people hate it.


I pick up my mail at the Post Office each day. In the lobby, there is a trash can that overflows onto the floor with junk mail no one wants. That mail not only kills trees and contributes to the polution problem by filling up landfills but also consumes a huge amount of energy to produce and dispose of. It also wastes the time and resources of the postal service to deliver, although it's profitable for them.

Regular mail "spam" is controlled by the cost to create and deliver it. There is no such impedence to e-mail spam. Which means spammers can send unfettered by an real cost hinderance. It is not the same thing at all. You would not be so cavalier about your regular postal junk mail if it were essential free for people to send it to you.



There are signs and billboards dotting the landscape as well. Advertisements on bus benches, rolling billboards on trucks and bandit signs planted at every intersection. No one seems to mind these assaults on the landscape but they are more offensive to the senses than any e-mail I've ever received. I cannot simply delete them.

Being able to access my e-mails is the lifeline of my businesses. The lifeline of my businesses are not roadside billboards. Spam mail directly interferes with my ability to run my businesses.

You either don't get it, or you are an e-mail spammer.

This has nothing to do with people's right to advertise. It has to do with people being able to infiltrate MY space with unsolicited advertisements. I did not ask them to contact me, I did not encourage them to contact me, I did not pay for a service that got them to contact me.
 
Clearly you don't value your time. Some of us put a high value on our own time, and messing with spam mail does nothing but waste it. There is no trade-off, there isno benefit. It is ONLY a negative thing.

Wow alphabet boy, for valuing your time so much, you sure wasted an awful lot of it picking apart my post and calling me an idiot. Nice!
 
Offline Spam, a gov agency profits USPS
Online Spam, gov agencies are bypassed...MUST CREATE LAWS!!....
 
This spam lawsuit is fucking pointless on every level. Bottom line: It's not going to solve anything. Laws will be made, and people will find loopholes in those laws, just like they always do.
 
Your direct mail follows fundamentally different cost/reward/effects curves.[/quote]


Okay, please explain these cost/reward/effects to the rest of us then.
 
This spam lawsuit is fucking pointless on every level. Bottom line: It's not going to solve anything. Laws will be made, and people will find loopholes in those laws, just like they always do.

You have a point there MyOwnDemon :bowdown:
 
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