Anyone ever apply for a patent?
- Thread starter Digidex
- Start date
Not personally, but it's one of those "someday" things and I've talked to a lot of patent holders and gathered a lot of information over the years. You might find some of this useful:
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/One-Simple-Idea-Licensing-Goldmine/dp/0071756159/"]One Simple Idea: Turn Your Dreams into a Licensing Goldmine While Letting Others Do the Work[/ame] - A solid book by an experienced inventor who doesn't advocate getting more than a provisional patent in a lot of cases.
The author also maintains a directory of useful resources + 1400 or so companies actively looking for product ideas. You can access that here if you sign up for his newsletter. There's also a lot of good stuff on the blog, the radio show, and in the success stories section.
The Bay Area Inventor's Alliance has meetings throughout California + an internet chapter. Their meetings often feature patent attorneys as speakers, including Larisa Migachyov, Damon Kali, and David Pressman. That doesn't necessarily mean they're any good, but I'd bet some of the members there could point you in the right direction.
And if all else fails, there's always this site.
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/One-Simple-Idea-Licensing-Goldmine/dp/0071756159/"]One Simple Idea: Turn Your Dreams into a Licensing Goldmine While Letting Others Do the Work[/ame] - A solid book by an experienced inventor who doesn't advocate getting more than a provisional patent in a lot of cases.
The author also maintains a directory of useful resources + 1400 or so companies actively looking for product ideas. You can access that here if you sign up for his newsletter. There's also a lot of good stuff on the blog, the radio show, and in the success stories section.
The Bay Area Inventor's Alliance has meetings throughout California + an internet chapter. Their meetings often feature patent attorneys as speakers, including Larisa Migachyov, Damon Kali, and David Pressman. That doesn't necessarily mean they're any good, but I'd bet some of the members there could point you in the right direction.
And if all else fails, there's always this site.
I remember when I was younger, I wanted to file hundreds of patents.. Then people told me it was thousands of dollars for each one. 
That feel...
That feel...
Just get a provisional patent first, then consider the real patent.
I recently filed for a provisional utility patent (PPA), which allows me to label and market my new product with "Patent Pending". The PPA process is much simpler, and only costs $125 if you do it yourself, which I did. You can also do it through places like Legalzoom, but expect to pay twice the money since they're making their share for filing it for you.
To file, you just describe your invention in a document. First a brief section that sums up what it is, and then more details. Finally, be sure to include good drawings. I did mine myself, but if you rather not - you can always find someone on Fiverr who can take your scribbles and napkin blueprints and make them look pro.
The main purpose of the provisional patent is to let the USPTO know that you were indeed the first to file for this particular invention. The US has now changed to the "first to file" system, so this is important. Besides - having the PPA (which gives you "Patent Pending"), will most often deter others from trying to file a patent on the same thing after they have seen yours.
The provisional status is valid for only 12 months however, and will expire after that. So you have one year to do market tests of the product - to see if it's really worthwhile going after the full patent (and time to see if you maybe need more than one patent, or even design patents on it).
Hope this helps!
Oh and... just Google "provisional patent template" or "example" to see how these applications are usually written.
I recently filed for a provisional utility patent (PPA), which allows me to label and market my new product with "Patent Pending". The PPA process is much simpler, and only costs $125 if you do it yourself, which I did. You can also do it through places like Legalzoom, but expect to pay twice the money since they're making their share for filing it for you.
To file, you just describe your invention in a document. First a brief section that sums up what it is, and then more details. Finally, be sure to include good drawings. I did mine myself, but if you rather not - you can always find someone on Fiverr who can take your scribbles and napkin blueprints and make them look pro.
The main purpose of the provisional patent is to let the USPTO know that you were indeed the first to file for this particular invention. The US has now changed to the "first to file" system, so this is important. Besides - having the PPA (which gives you "Patent Pending"), will most often deter others from trying to file a patent on the same thing after they have seen yours.
The provisional status is valid for only 12 months however, and will expire after that. So you have one year to do market tests of the product - to see if it's really worthwhile going after the full patent (and time to see if you maybe need more than one patent, or even design patents on it).
Hope this helps!
Oh and... just Google "provisional patent template" or "example" to see how these applications are usually written.
I assisted in the patent application via my company - Yellow Jacket - Protection for Your Phone and Your Life
We initially filed a provisional but then had to refile bc the product changed more than we realized. Also, keep in mind you need to file 12 months after you publicly disclose your idea as well.
The attorneys we used were Perkins Coie
They have a very good reputation and they blew a lot of local attorneys we spoke with (in Baton Rouge) out of the water in terms of their expertise and professionalism.
They were pretty fair on the billing for our application but their hourly rates for consulting were the highest I've ever seen. We paid about 7k more than we would have with a local attorney but we are very happy with the results.
We initially filed a provisional but then had to refile bc the product changed more than we realized. Also, keep in mind you need to file 12 months after you publicly disclose your idea as well.
The attorneys we used were Perkins Coie
They have a very good reputation and they blew a lot of local attorneys we spoke with (in Baton Rouge) out of the water in terms of their expertise and professionalism.
They were pretty fair on the billing for our application but their hourly rates for consulting were the highest I've ever seen. We paid about 7k more than we would have with a local attorney but we are very happy with the results.
You have to spend a couple grand up front to have a real lawyer do a patent search and make sure it's valid. Then it costs money to have it written up using lawyer terminology in the broadest way possible. Provisional patent is good for 12 months but the final patent has to be based on whatever you put forth in the provisional, and after 12 months it becomes public no matter if you get a patent on it or not. So competitors can know what you have even if you get the patent.
You can say "patent pending" in your marketing after filing a provisional patent, even if it ends up not being valid. lol Then just move on to some other gimmicky item.
You can say "patent pending" in your marketing after filing a provisional patent, even if it ends up not being valid. lol Then just move on to some other gimmicky item.
InventorsEye | April 2010
Also, be very careful of what you do with your Marketing prior to Full Patent issuance.
It's been MANY MOONS since I had to deal with the Patent Process here in the US, but it use to be that if you were to SELL and PROFIT from an Invention here in the US prior to obtaining a FULL PATENT you would LOSE INTERNATIONAL PATENT RIGHTS!!! (Even with a Provisional Patent. I see that has been amended "somewhat" now with a Provisional Patent.)
I know the link above is 3 years old, but read through it. It will give you some insight as to how things work with patents.
Here's some more links for you:
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) (WIPO- World Intellectual Property Organization)
United States Patent and Trademark Office
http://patents.aaaa.org/
Patent Flowchart (Inventor Basics Website )
Patent Information - What Is A Patent and What Does Patent Ownership Mean?
US Patent Forum I Managing Intellectual Property
The Intellectual Property Law Server
FAQs - Before You Ask, Check Here First (Inventor's Spot Forum )
Have Fun!!!
Also, be very careful of what you do with your Marketing prior to Full Patent issuance.
It's been MANY MOONS since I had to deal with the Patent Process here in the US, but it use to be that if you were to SELL and PROFIT from an Invention here in the US prior to obtaining a FULL PATENT you would LOSE INTERNATIONAL PATENT RIGHTS!!! (Even with a Provisional Patent. I see that has been amended "somewhat" now with a Provisional Patent.)
I know the link above is 3 years old, but read through it. It will give you some insight as to how things work with patents.
Here's some more links for you:
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) (WIPO- World Intellectual Property Organization)
United States Patent and Trademark Office
http://patents.aaaa.org/
Patent Flowchart (Inventor Basics Website )
Patent Information - What Is A Patent and What Does Patent Ownership Mean?
US Patent Forum I Managing Intellectual Property
The Intellectual Property Law Server
FAQs - Before You Ask, Check Here First (Inventor's Spot Forum )
Have Fun!!!
Stefanie, thanks for the info...even the meatspin at the end. I figured it was from the redirect, but clicks anyways. My wife and I needed a laugh as I told her to close the window knowing she wouldn't be able to. We just put our cat down an hour ago so thanks fo rthe laugh.
If I end up applying, I would probably try to go the licensing route and could support it with a retail website or something if contracts allow me to do so. There are other similar patents that have been approved already back in the 80s, 90s, and even 2000's. I see many kinda overlap so i'm wondering if I could do a similar but different one which is why I want a concrete solid attorney. Fuck legal zoom. I still have much research to do before I even decide to move forward, but this is a route I have never tried before so I may give it ago after the research says move forward and the attorney gives a green light.
Thank everyone for the helpful links besides cpauser who was probably just trying to up his post count. If you have any more information on this topic, keep it flowing as i know this has not been discussed in depth too much here.
Have any of you successfully got the solid patent and had success selling the product by retail licensing? I would be interested to hear your story with our without TMI if you prefer to not discuss. Feel free to PM me too. Thanks guys. Have a good weekend.
The other thing to remember is that once you have the patent you need to be ready to defend it in court. If you don't then the patent loses its validity.
99% of the time there's no point in getting a patent unless you have millions in cash to use to actually sue people violating it.
Most patents aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
Most patents aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
Sounds like great legal advice...or maybe just a sweeping generalization based on main-stream news rather than legal precedents with estimated court-room hours.
This is not necessarily true.
You are correct that you need to be ready to defend but if you have a solid patent and sizable market share, there are many attorneys willing to represent based on contingency fees.
The arm chair legal advice you will receive in these matters is astounding. On our product, we consulted with several different attorneys and firms to develop our legal strategy and we received a ton of misinformation from business folk that thought they understood law.
When it came time to raise capital, our legal representation was a massive asset in the eyes of most investors we spoke to and I credit the attorneys with helping us close our second round.
If you are serious about this, go find some more progressive attorneys that like to help entrepreneurs. We received hundreds of dollars in free legal advice before we had to fork over the big bucks for the technical stuff.
Main stream news? How often are patents covered in the main stream news? I think just about the only thing I hear in it relating to patents is about drug patents and subsequent drug pricing.
Most people have no reason to get a patent what-so-ever. They'll waste money on patenting an invention that'll never survive in the market in the first place - when they should be working on developing & marketing their product -- y'know, things that actually make you money. Perhaps yours was one of those few exceptions, but I don't know enough about your market to comment. I said 99%, not 100%.
Most people then fail to get a patent done properly, and no matter how many patents you have you won't stop a Chinese company from re-creating your product and exporting if it's any good. Good luck then trying to deal with the hundreds of stores around the world trying to sell your invention shipped out of china with a pitiful legal budget.
Patents are a must for big companies who need to protect themselves from other big companies with patents, and also in certain specific sectors like drugs. Most people however have no need for one, and are kidding themselves thinking that their idea is worth patenting in the first place.
I filed for a patent a couple of years back, but never ended up going past patent pending. Legal & time costs were stacking up, and the more research I did the more I was convinced it would be a waste of money going any further than that in my particular case. My default advice though is to tell people not to bother with it, there are more important things that matter for most start-up businesses.
Also - in terms of legal advice, why would you get legal advice telling you not to better protect yourself on paper legally? What lawyer would ever suggest otherwise? I've been part of many deals that have almost been destroyed by lawyers giving their advice to both parties. Lawyers will give you endless advice to protect yourself more from a legal perspective ad infinitum.
The statement :
is a poor way to frame the legal focus vs. R&D focus argument. Maybe not make such generalized statements?
If we are arguing how much advice to take from lawyers vs. bringing your product to market, I'm sure we would agree on many points.
My newly found legal understandings of IP law based on my personal experience filing and since I've analyzed 100's of businesses sitting on the board of an entrepreneur organization, patents can be worth a lot of money even for startups.
I've seen several deals fall through due to lack of IP. Certain investors wouldn't even talk to us until our patent was filed.
No where am I saying every business requires IP protection but there are many ideas out there worthy of protecting legally.
Uhh...it's called a Good lawyer...
Our lawyers consistently advise us on ways to trim down legal costs and stay out of court.
Our general business attorney advises us on the validity of everything our IP and Insurance lawyers say/do. Checks and Balances.
From what you're writing, it sounds like you have little experience in these matters other than a failed patent filing. I would probably stop giving people your "default advice". I don't mean that to be rude, but I think you may be causing more harm than good.
