Profit Sharing Partnerships

BlueYonder

BlueYonder

Flaming panties
Aug 13, 2008
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I've been thinking a lot about creative partnerships, where you trade an important service (in my case, copywriting) in exchange for a percentage of the profits of a campaign. This, in exchange for a flat fee for a service rendered. From what I've learned, it's the next step up from being a freelancer.

Has anybody entered into an arrangement like this, and if so how did it work out? What are the particulars to setting up an arrangement and paying out the profits fairly to the partner(s), etc?
 


This is how most copywriters I know operate.

It's normally in conjunction with a flat-fee. So like $xx,xxx upfront and then 10-30% of gross profits - depending on the deal.

If you work for a big mailer you normally get mailed a flat amount per piece mailed.

As far as getting ripped off, don't work with people who you think may rip you off. Stick with reputable mailers/marketers who have an established reputation to uphold.

For specifics, if it's an online launch most payment systems can set it up automatically. If it's a mailing make sure they'll give you access to their info-sheets.

I wouldn't recommend doing it without an upfront fee unless you already have an established relationship with the client. It's bad for positioning and if you do get ripped off, at least you have the upfront fee.
 
I was talking with someone at a conference who wrote the copy for several campaigns. His client is now retired in a tropical location.

That kind of pissed him off, cause he was always like, "Hey, how about you cut me in on the next one?" But it never happened.

I think you will have a hard time, at least with current clients, convincing them to make the switch, but you might accomplish it with new clients.

This guy was into stuff like how to date women and big real estate email blasts where they would get a dozen people to blast their list on the same day.
 
I love them, but you have to make sure that the reason the other party is interested in a partnership is not because they can't pay your fee. Like TLC, you don't want no scrubs.

Also if someone has a profitable project in mind, they'll usually prefer to just pay your fee instead of a %, so you may try to bring more to the table than usual.. For example with copy, you'll continually test and revise the copy to improve conversions so it's better value than they would get if they just hired you as a freelancer, paid the fee and were done with it.
 
Study some Clayton Makepeace and Gary Bencivenga for in-depth real-world advice on this.

I can't remember which Makepeace course, and Bencivenga covers it extensively in his 100 Seminar recording, which ain't cheap, but IMO worth it, found here...

Bencivenga 100 Seminar

I'll dig through my Makepeace stuff and see if I remember the course, he has some really good advice on it. Both of these guys are/were 7-figure freelancers so they're worth learning from.
 
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scottspfd82 said:
Study some Clayton Makepeace and Gary Bencivenga for in-depth real-world advice on this.

I can't remember which Makepeace course, and Bencivenga covers it extensively in his 100 Seminar recording, which ain't cheap, but IMO worth it, found here...

Bencivenga 100 Seminar

I'll dig through my Makepeace stuff and see if I remember the course, he has some really good advice on it. Both of these guys are/were 7-figure freelancers so they're worth learning from.
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You can get it free on certain websites if you know what I mean. I have the audio mp3s of it. I would like to have the DVDs though. and yea its great stuff.
 
erifdekciw said:
You can get it free on certain websites if you know what I mean. I have the audio mp3s of it. I would like to have the DVDs though. and yea its great stuff.
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It has taken me 6 years to figure out that your username is WF backwards.

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erifdekciw said:
You can get it free on certain websites if you know what I mean. I have the audio mp3s of it. I would like to have the DVDs though. and yea its great stuff.
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You can.

Something to keep in mind though, if you're looking to connect, learn from or build relationships with certain people, the fact that you've spent money with them can be a lot more valuable to you than the product itself.

Maybe you want an introduction or recommendation from someone like Bencivenga. He's going to be a lot more receptive to someone who's spent $5k with him than just a random stranger emailing him out of the blue.

Just something to think about.
 
Personally, I think you'll be hard pressed to find Rain Makers/Entrepreneurs who are going to be interested in profit sharing with copywriters, unless the copywriter is truly exceptional.

Everybody acts in self-interest, so you have to convince the Entrepreneur that he/she will make more money cutting you in at 10% then hiring another copywriter for a flat fee.

TLDR: Get Better at Pitching Yourself.
 
K-Noop said:
Personally, I think you'll be hard pressed to find Rain Makers/Entrepreneurs who are going to be interested in profit sharing with copywriters, unless the copywriter is truly exceptional.

Everybody acts in self-interest, so you have to convince the Entrepreneur that he/she will make more money cutting you in at 10% then hiring another copywriter for a flat fee.

TLDR: Get Better at Pitching Yourself.
Click to expand...

Agora, Phillips, Rodale and countless direct marketing companies that have been generating hundreds of millions of dollars, many of which existed long before the internet, almost all exclusively hire copywriters on a fee plus revenue share deal.

In my experience, and I have a quite a bit of it, the biggest marketing companies and the best paid copywriters work on rev share deals.
 
BlueYonder said:
I was expecting many of you to pile on with horror stories. Srsly.
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I don't see why - since if everyone in the group means srsbznz, JVs are lifeblood of IM, using resources only you have and resources only other party has to make magical things happen.

My advice from many JVs is make sure from the beginning that all partners understand EQUAL INPUT. If one party starts leading anything and you're not making any money - should feel free to tell them that you want to change things up, try your way, etc. Otherwise can spend years with partners that make you 1/100th of what could've been.

PS - I used to whore myself to sell copy on here years ago. Get lots of fun friends and package your service for a %. Ie. You won't just write their salescopy - you'll write front, back, upsells, and a big, ol' 30-day email salesfunnel for 10%. Worked for me for a start.
 
Yeah, I do some of those 50-50 splits and it works out perfectly fine. I provide keyword research, content creation, offer optimizing, design and maintenance and my partner spams the crap out of the sites. It has worked out very well for both of us. Of course, part of the reason it works is because my biz partner lives in a non-english speaking country with less opportunity. So we combine forces. I find opps in 3 different languages with less competition and he just focuses on crafting his spamming skills.

I will say this though, you have to be very sure that you're dealing with someone competent who is in it for the long haul and someone who can't just cut you out.

As for the contract, screw that, I wouldn't enter into any such arrangement if I didn't trust the person. This may be different for US people, since you can sue and actually get money.

Basically, teaming up with someone you just met or advertised for is not going to work well imo. You should know the person, what motivation they have, their work ethic and preferably have compatible goals.

Myself, I just got on Skype with one of my linkspammers for convenience and had some chats over a year. Eventually we did a test run on a jv and it turned a healthy profit.

Of course, you have to weight the lower profits (50% is a lot), to the scalability. For me it works out good, because of strict specialization. I would never jv up with a jack of all trades though.
 
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