Russian Army Invades Ukraine And Seizes Crimea

[teatree]

You're kidding me right about Afghanistan? The Sovjets were winning in Afghanistan handsomely until the US entered, created Al-Qaeda and provided them with top of the line weapons.

I wouldn't be too certain in the US economy. No one thought the USSR could fall either, but didn't the US congress not long ago actually stop paying their government employees because they couldn't agree on the debt ceiling?

The US is the one with the overstretched military now, not the Russians, which largely have a military aimed at defending its own perimeter, not project force everywhere.

So one minute you are claiming that the Russians could easily defeat the Americans and the next you are saying that it was American financing of the Afghans that caused the Russian defeat?

Spin it anyway you like. The fact remains that the Russians were thrashed and humiliated in Afghanistan.

And the American economy is much stronger than the Russian one, by a factor of at least a 1000.

Russia's whole economy depends on selling oil and gas to the EU - and they've annoyed the EU so that the EU is determinedly switching away from oil and gas. What happens then? Russia doesn't have any other industry. No IT and pharma industry like India, no manufacturing like China, nothing but vodka which no-one wants to buy.

 

[boatBurner]

So Your country spends $700Bn on dildo shaped missiles and other war-heads and you're proud?

It's no surprise you're missing the point here.

We're highlighting your mental disorder. The vocal majority here aren't proponents of the U.S. military.

The US coddles their military with xbox and all kinds of amenities

Not following your back-and-forth but this is a hyperbolic statement, not to mention false if your point is to say that U.S. military spending dwarfs other nations because they rack up a bill on entertainment.

 

[metalshark]

I'm not trying to sound like a dick here, but can someone explain to me in 100 words or less why I should care about the Russia/Ukraine situation (whatever the hell that situation happens to be)?

From someone who doesn't know a damn thing about history, but has read up on all this due to a massive hangover and procrastination:

Russia invaded Ukraine while Ukraine is in a very weak state.

Ukraine gave up nukes like 20 years ago under a treaty with the US, UK, & Russia for a gray area of "foreign protection".

Russia just broke the hell out of that in this treaty by invading them. (Some argue the US has done this several times too, in our recent middle east wars.)

Some argue that Russia invaded a very Russian area of Ukraine and it's possibly justified.

Some argue that it's up to the US, UK, & UN to defend Ukraine.

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

For anyone who knows what they're talking about, is this anywhere near as big of a deal as they're making it out to be? CNN and FoxNews talk as if we're on the brink of WWIII here.

I don't really know, but Ukraine has been going to shit for months, Wikipedia says 58% of people in Crimea are ethnic Russians, plus Russia has a port there, pipelines, etc. Since Ukraine is falling to pieces, and the govt obviously isn't capable of providing necessary security to its citizens and infrastructure, Russia is stepping into Crimea to do so? Is that a fair assessment?

If so, what's all the hoopla about? Aren't the majority of residents in Crimea happy the Russians are there? Wouldn't this be the equivalent of say US soldiers coming into Canada to help provide security against mass riots and protests, after Canada has proven themselves incapable of doing so? The media is making it out to be worst than when the US invaded Iraq.

 

[metalshark]

For anyone who knows what they're talking about, is this anywhere near as big of a deal as they're making it out to be? CNN and FoxNews talk as if we're on the brink of WWIII here.

I don't really know, but Ukraine has been going to shit for months, Wikipedia says 58% of people in Crimea are ethnic Russians, plus Russia has a port there, pipelines, etc. Since Ukraine is falling to pieces, and the govt obviously isn't capable of providing necessary security to its citizens and infrastructure, Russia is stepping into Crimea to do so? Is that a fair assessment?

If so, what's all the hoopla about? Aren't the majority of residents in Crimea happy the Russians are there?

I believe a lot of that has to do with Russia's game plan, the world is waiting to see if Russia tries to take more than just Crimea. Crimea and Russia have history and a lot of people in Crimea are Russian, but I think Ukraine is in arms waiting for them to take another step east.

^I think, some history/political buff might come tear that apart, but it's what I'm making of it as of this moment.

 

[Moxie]

Russia has produced the finest mathematicians, programmers, philosophers, writers, musicians, scientists, researchers etc in huge numbers.

GORKY PARK IS RAD

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrSKG3TS0uE]Gorky Park - Bang (HQ) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[teatree]

If so, what's all the hoopla about? Aren't the majority of residents in Crimea happy the Russians are there? Wouldn't this be the equivalent of say US soldiers coming into Canada to help provide security against mass riots and protests, after Canada has proven themselves incapable of doing so? The media is making it out to be worst than when the US invaded Iraq.

There are Tartars and Ukrainians in Crimea.

Crimea used to be the homeland of the Tartars. They only became part of Russia during the Crimean War (1853) when the Russians essentially invaded and colonized it. Then later Stalin forcibly removed some Tartars and dumped them in central asia, starved another 100,000 people and parachuted Russians into their place. So that's how the Russians got into Crimea - through ethnic cleansing.

The Tartars still living in Crimea want to remain with Ukraine rather than Russia.

Crimea doesn't really belong to Russia, is the bottom line.

As for your scenario about a US invasion of Canada - the world would look at any US invasion of Canada as hostile. Freedom means the freedom to run your country badly. Most countries go through this - and left alone, they usually figure it out and sort themselves out without needing anyone else to interfere.

P.S. the last time the US tried to invade Canada, Britain sent a fleet to kick them out and burnt down the White House for good measure. The 200th anniversary is coming up - if the Americans were good sports they'd allow a re-enactment, but I think they're hoping the anniversary passes without being marked.

 

[Andrew Scherer]

"You don't just, in the 21st century, behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped-up pretext," Kerry told CBS programme Face the Nation.

HAHAH this kind of irony is unsustainable

 

[jriddick]

For anyone who knows what they're talking about, is this anywhere near as big of a deal as they're making it out to be? CNN and FoxNews talk as if we're on the brink of WWIII here.

I don't really know, but Ukraine has been going to shit for months, Wikipedia says 58% of people in Crimea are ethnic Russians, plus Russia has a port there, pipelines, etc. Since Ukraine is falling to pieces, and the govt obviously isn't capable of providing necessary security to its citizens and infrastructure, Russia is stepping into Crimea to do so? Is that a fair assessment?

If so, what's all the hoopla about? Aren't the majority of residents in Crimea happy the Russians are there? Wouldn't this be the equivalent of say US soldiers coming into Canada to help provide security against mass riots and protests, after Canada has proven themselves incapable of doing so? The media is making it out to be worst than when the US invaded Iraq.

Congratulations, you've fallen for the Russian propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

Congratulations, you've fallen for the Russian propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

Not really, but I'm not going to throw my arms in the air and start yelling "da Russians are evil!" either. At least not yet. See, there's a difference.

For example, the US put Iraq back into the stone age via their "shock & awe" campaign, then showed up on the border with over 100,000 soldiers. Now that's a straight-up invasion.

On the other hand, so far Russia has sent ~15,000 troops into a bordering region where the majority of current residents are Russian, and where other Russian interests are, after months of civil unrest in Ukraine. Plus not a shot has been reportedly fired yet. They're protecting their own interests and people, and that should be expected.

Now if we start seeing Russian tanks rolling through the streets of Kiev, then ok, that's a problem. So far though, there's absolutely no indication Russia plans on doing that. Maybe I'm wrong, but so far all I see is the Western media completely blowing this out of proportion.

 

[SevenYearItch]

It's no surprise you're missing the point here.

We're highlighting your mental disorder. The vocal majority here aren't proponents of the U.S. military.



Not following your back-and-forth but this is a hyperbolic statement, not to mention false if your point is to say that U.S. military spending dwarfs other nations because they rack up a bill on entertainment.

You little impoverished pleb you... Quite clearly a jobsworth who bases the lion's share of his opinions on information accumulated from various online webpages.

Why is it that every other country has kept quiet on this fiasco, yet Obama feels it necessary to deliver "warnings" to sovereign states? Warnings that Putin has so conveniently ignored mind you...

Then you have the sheeple, such as yourself, who support these actions - then complain when your shitty country is dragged into another lengthily, costly and pointless war

 

[metalshark]

Why is it that every other country has kept quiet on this fiasco, yet Obama feels it necessary to deliver "warnings" to sovereign states? Warnings that Putin has so conveniently ignored mind you...

The UK, France, Poland, Latvia, Finland and Lithuania and even fucking Canada has voiced out against Russia. China "called for dialogue". Hell even people in Russia are protesting against it.

 

[boatBurner]

It's okay, friend. It will all be over soon.

 

[jerry55]

The US meddles in the affairs of Latin American countries all the time (Monroe Doctrine anyone?). It invades them, supports regimes, and so on. Isn't this a double standard for Russia?

History of US military interventions: http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html

 

[ShadowCaster]

OMG, that guy is amazing. About

Powerfully engaging and authentic in attitude, Shane’s explorations are relevant to our times in the way that Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell and Leonard Cohen were to theirs.

Shane is both a writer and spoken word virtuoso.

 

[Fatbat]

Yes France, that small corporation in Europe, are - historically - war GODS! The US's shitty little army still studies most of their tactics till this day. Rudyard Kipling has gone on record saying about the French: "Their business is war, and they do their business." France is one of the most revered military forces in the world, with the third highest military spending on the planet and an estimated 300 nuclear warheads at their disposal. They would trample all over the US (and most other nations) at just the slightest sign of aggression.

The UK a.k.a the Financial powerhouse of the world... Home to the most powerful family on the planet - the Windsors. It has the most elite and well trained military in the world. It is as(or more) technologically advanced as the USA as they jointly develop all their military technology with them. Britain also has far more diplomatic clout than any other Western country as it is a key member of the largest and most powerful economy in the world - the European Union.

There must be a gas leak in your mom's basement.

Rudyard Kipling has gone on record? You're talking about ancient history as if it has any relevance to today's modern warfare or political situation, never mind the fact that these countries are now staunch allies with one another.

Other than a small handful of French special forces or peacekeeper actions, the last umpteen major French "victories" have been because of coalition forces in which the Americans played pretty much the leading role along with the British, Canadians, Australians, and in more recent times, the rest of the EU. The French wouldn't trample over anything if faced with a one on one battle with the US. Let's not kid ourselves.

When was the last time the British fought the US? The War of 1812? If the US were "cowards" in the face of the British enemy, and had ultimately lost against them, wouldn't the US now be a British overseas territory instead of the SOLE true superpower in the world? Numbers alone don't make a superior armed force.

Beyond these obvious glaring holes in your posts, WTF does ANY of this have to do with this thread?! The only question here is whether or not the US could intervene in the Ukraine with force, which I have no doubt they could, albeit with serious consequences, which means they won't. So why even bring it up?

 

[GoldMarketing]

Lol, again this absurd idea that Russia is like the middle east with no skills just oil.

Oil is the primary source for Russia's economic growth, it plays a HUGE role. It's hard to imagine what the current economy would be without it considering the corruption.

Russia has produced the finest mathematicians, programmers, philosophers, writers, musicians, scientists, researchers etc in huge numbers. After Germany, historically Russia may be the finest country when it comes to scientific progress in all of history. Do you think that will just dissapear over night and Russia to sink into barbary?

True that, agree. It would be surprising if it would be false considering the amount of population. But many of those early intellectuals died in the Gulag camps(by their own people).

Who made Xrumer, who made SAPE, who makes a killing in SEO?

Actually loled.

Keep in mind Russia was raped of 75% of its wealth by the Rothschild oligarcs less than 20 years ago.

It's being raped by local oligarchs and the corrupt government, elite. I am quite surprised about Russian mentality towards corruption - it seems like a norm.

Maybe it's time to stop mute the aggressive pro-Russian view for a little bit? Russia just occupied a neighboring country simply because it didn't want to be its puppet.
But maybe I am a nazi? (I heard that's how the Russian propaganda tend to portray every unfriendly/opposing country)

 

[rusvik]

HAHAH this kind of irony is unsustainable

Unfortunately, that kind of statement shows exactly what people like Kerry think of the mental ability of his voters.

 

[Fatbat]

You little impoverished pleb you... blah, blah, piffle, ptthhpppp

Ah yes, the truth comes out. You're just an angry little man that can't have a debate without resorting to name calling. "The wealth of your knowledge comes from the Internet... I, on the other hand, read BOOKS!". As if nothing dishonest has ever been put on the printed page.

Get over yourself.

 

[cassius]

Why is it that every other country has kept quiet on this fiasco. . .

Leaders of Germany, China, France, the UK, Poland, South Africa, Canada, Finland, Italy, Latvia and Greece have all made statements. There are more, but I stopped after the first page.

You should give your ass a drink of water, it is probably getting dry from talking so much.