Yoohoo! You forgot to answer the question about how many Israeli civilians were killed by Hamas rockets.
Life in Occupied Palestine
- Thread starter charlesmartel
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Yoohoo! You forgot to answer the question about how many Israeli civilians were killed by Hamas rockets.
You're quick to call people nazis, anti-semites, and white supremacists but can't come up with any evidence. If what you said about Professor MacDonald is true, then you shouldn't have any trouble finding a quote from him. You're engaging in a well-known tactic to shut down debate. Just hurl a few names at your opponent and then let that do the work.
Unfortunately, I'm pressing you for facts, which you cannot deliver.
What the fuck does that matter? This isn't some PC schoolyard bullshit where you've got to keep the numbers even out of fairness to the other kids.
Or maybe their opinions are more relevant than those of some guy that prints out pictures of strangers and jerks off on them.
Their opinions are as irrelevant as yours and mine.
Picking on the defending itself side of an armed conflict is a double standard.
Don’t set a double standard for Israel on norms of war
Picking on the defending itself side of an armed conflict is a double standard.
Don’t set a double standard for Israel on norms of war
I guess it depends on your definition of defense. If you consider bombing a walled off enclave in occupied territory as defending your country, then perhaps you could claim people are "picking on the defending side".
However, I don't think many rational objective people would consider an occupying power bombing a walled off and occupied territory area a good example of defending your country.
Gaza is not occupied, Israel left Gaza in 2005. It doesn't matter if its a good/bad or complicated example, the bottom line is every country has a right to defend itself.
The [European] union’s 28 foreign ministers issued a joint statement after a meeting of the European Council, calling for an end to Hamas rocket attacks and an immediate ceasefire.
“While recognizing Israel’s legitimate right to defend itself against any attacks, the EU underlines that the Israeli military operation must be proportionate and in line with international humanitarian law,” it said.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/eu-calls-on-hamas-islamic-jihad-to-disarm/
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President Obama said Wednesday that Israel “has the right to defend itself”
“As I’ve said repeatedly, Israel has a right to defend itself from rocket attacks that terrorize the Israeli people,” Obama said.
Obama Says Israel Has A "Right To Defend Itself"
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Prime Minister Stephen Harper issues statement supporting Israel's right to defend itself
"Canada is unequivocally behind Israel. We support its right to defend itself, by itself, against these terror attacks, and urge Hamas to immediately cease their indiscriminate attacks on innocent Israeli civilians."
Prime Minister Stephen Harper issues statement supporting Israel's right to defend itself | Georgia Straight, Vancouver's News & Entertainment Weekly
The [European] union’s 28 foreign ministers issued a joint statement after a meeting of the European Council, calling for an end to Hamas rocket attacks and an immediate ceasefire.
“While recognizing Israel’s legitimate right to defend itself against any attacks, the EU underlines that the Israeli military operation must be proportionate and in line with international humanitarian law,” it said.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/eu-calls-on-hamas-islamic-jihad-to-disarm/
---
President Obama said Wednesday that Israel “has the right to defend itself”
“As I’ve said repeatedly, Israel has a right to defend itself from rocket attacks that terrorize the Israeli people,” Obama said.
Obama Says Israel Has A "Right To Defend Itself"
---
Prime Minister Stephen Harper issues statement supporting Israel's right to defend itself
"Canada is unequivocally behind Israel. We support its right to defend itself, by itself, against these terror attacks, and urge Hamas to immediately cease their indiscriminate attacks on innocent Israeli civilians."
Prime Minister Stephen Harper issues statement supporting Israel's right to defend itself | Georgia Straight, Vancouver's News & Entertainment Weekly
Love how you guys keep telling us that Israel left Gaza in 2005 but ignore the fact that this only happened after completion of the Israel-Gaza Barrier (a 20ft concrete walled and steel fenced barrier with integrated wathtowers) surrounding Gaza and the establishment of a 3km 'buffer zone' leaving 40% of Gaza out of bounds to its inhabitants!
Stop firing rockets and digging terror tunnels and there will be no need for a buffer zone.
Meanwhile:
Meanwhile:
the EU says Israel must lift its blockade to allow "a fundamental improvement in the living conditions for the Palestinian people in Gaza."
EU Says Status Quo for Gaza 'Not an Option' - ABC News
"They endure the daily humiliations – large and small – that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: the situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity, and a state of their own." 6-4-09
"and we continue to emphasize that America does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements" 9-24-09
Text - Obama’s Speech to the United Nations General Assembly - NYTimes.com
Harper sends warning to Israel over settlement plans - The Globe and Mail
There are no settlements in Gaza so the Obama and Harper quotes are not related to the Gaza conflict.
Gaza has a border with Egypt so its not a complete Israeli blockade.
Israel will lift its blockade when Hamas redefine their goal of destructing Israel and actually recognize Israel.
Hamas is like ISIS, ISIS is like Hamas. They are branches of the same tree.
Gaza has a border with Egypt so its not a complete Israeli blockade.
Israel will lift its blockade when Hamas redefine their goal of destructing Israel and actually recognize Israel.
Hamas is like ISIS, ISIS is like Hamas. They are branches of the same tree.
Obama does mention Gaza in both those speeches. In the first one I quoted, he referred to it in the sentence before.
It also wasn't a "complete" blockade when Egypt blocked Israel in the Straits of Tiran.
Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You lying about the situation doesn't change it. That Gaza is occupied is recognized by pretty much every country in the world (UN as well) including the USA. Every country except Israel of course.
Israel controls the water, the airspace, the entry and exit, the population registry, land crossings, as well as declaring no go zones inside of Gaza for the population which just happens to include 45%+ of its farmland. They detain and kill anyone they want in Gaza, while many gazans are held in administrative detention - in other words indefinite jail without trial or appeal. For those reasons there is literally no country or legal institute of relevant standing (Israel and it's SC excluded) that agrees with your fictional assessment of Gaza not being occupied.
As an occupied territory, the occupying power bombing the walled off occupied enclave at varying intervals can scarcely be regarded as defense. You are plain wrong. Rallying blindly around the Israeli government is not serving the long term interests of Israel. Establishing a lasting peace (main problem is Israelis settlements) is in Israel's long term interests. People like you who refuse to acknowledge the basic reality and deal with it just perpetuate the problems in that region.
[...] is the indisputable fact that Israel, in fact, ended its occupation of Gaza in 2005.
During the first period (2005-2007), Israel removed all of its troops from Gaza.
It also removed all of its settlers.
The settlers left behind greenhouses, farm equipment and other valuable civilian assets worth millions of dollars.
The Palestinians of Gaza were free to come and go as they pleased, to conduct free elections, and to import construction and other economic material in order to build a viable Palestinian entity to help their citizens. European donors sent them money and other resources, hoping that they would use them to create jobs, schools, hospitals and other necessary infrastructure.
To be sure, Israel maintained control over its border with Gaza, with checkpoints and security fences, but it opened its border to Palestinian residents of Gaza who came to work in Israel.
During that period, numerous Gazans came into Israel to work and came back to Gaza with good salaries to feed their families.
During the same period many Gazans went to Egypt and other countries.
Israel continued to control Gaza’s air space and to patrol its sea lanes in order to prevent the importation of rockets and other weapons capable of being used against Israeli civilians, but it had no presence on the ground in Gaza.
On January 25, 2006, the Palestinian Authority held elections. Gazans were free to vote and did in fact vote in large numbers for Hamas, which achieved a significant political victory.
But that wasn’t enough for Hamas, which conducted a bloody coup d’etat in which numerous Palestinian civilians who were associated with the Palestinian Authority were killed.
Hamas also resumed rocket attacks against Israeli civilians and increased its building of terrorist tunnels into Israel, which it used to kill and kidnap Israelis.
It was only after these acts of war by Hamas that Israel instituted its blockade in 2007 – nearly two years after it ended its occupation.
So the truth is that the blockade has not been the cause of Hamas’ rocket and tunnel attacks. The blockade has been the result of these attacks.
It is an entirely legitimate defensive military response to war crimes committed by Hamas.
Finally, we come to the recent war. Israel did not send soldiers into Gaza, until after Hamas sent its terrorists into Israel through its tunnels and killed Israelis.
It became clear to Israel that it could not tolerate these tunnels, whose exits are located near kindergartens, kibbutzim and other civilian areas.
Nor could these tunnels be attacked from the air, since their entrances are beneath hospitals, schools, mosques and civilian homes – and their exit locations are unknown to the Israelis.
Those who falsely argue that Israel continued to occupy Gaza after its soldiers left and before it imposed its necessary blockade are playing into the hands of the enemies of a compromise peace.
The 'occupation of Gaza' canard | JPost | Israel News
During the first period (2005-2007), Israel removed all of its troops from Gaza.
It also removed all of its settlers.
The settlers left behind greenhouses, farm equipment and other valuable civilian assets worth millions of dollars.
The Palestinians of Gaza were free to come and go as they pleased, to conduct free elections, and to import construction and other economic material in order to build a viable Palestinian entity to help their citizens. European donors sent them money and other resources, hoping that they would use them to create jobs, schools, hospitals and other necessary infrastructure.
To be sure, Israel maintained control over its border with Gaza, with checkpoints and security fences, but it opened its border to Palestinian residents of Gaza who came to work in Israel.
During that period, numerous Gazans came into Israel to work and came back to Gaza with good salaries to feed their families.
During the same period many Gazans went to Egypt and other countries.
Israel continued to control Gaza’s air space and to patrol its sea lanes in order to prevent the importation of rockets and other weapons capable of being used against Israeli civilians, but it had no presence on the ground in Gaza.
On January 25, 2006, the Palestinian Authority held elections. Gazans were free to vote and did in fact vote in large numbers for Hamas, which achieved a significant political victory.
But that wasn’t enough for Hamas, which conducted a bloody coup d’etat in which numerous Palestinian civilians who were associated with the Palestinian Authority were killed.
Hamas also resumed rocket attacks against Israeli civilians and increased its building of terrorist tunnels into Israel, which it used to kill and kidnap Israelis.
It was only after these acts of war by Hamas that Israel instituted its blockade in 2007 – nearly two years after it ended its occupation.
So the truth is that the blockade has not been the cause of Hamas’ rocket and tunnel attacks. The blockade has been the result of these attacks.
It is an entirely legitimate defensive military response to war crimes committed by Hamas.
Finally, we come to the recent war. Israel did not send soldiers into Gaza, until after Hamas sent its terrorists into Israel through its tunnels and killed Israelis.
It became clear to Israel that it could not tolerate these tunnels, whose exits are located near kindergartens, kibbutzim and other civilian areas.
Nor could these tunnels be attacked from the air, since their entrances are beneath hospitals, schools, mosques and civilian homes – and their exit locations are unknown to the Israelis.
Those who falsely argue that Israel continued to occupy Gaza after its soldiers left and before it imposed its necessary blockade are playing into the hands of the enemies of a compromise peace.
The 'occupation of Gaza' canard | JPost | Israel News
In 1948 there was no settlements, but guess what, there was war.
1967 - the same.
What was the reason the Arab armies attacked Israel in 1948?
almost everyone who comments here, from both sides, just pukes their favorite media outlet, no real opinions here.
As a person who lives in this conflict zone for 29 years, i can tell you with a very sad heart, there is no solution for extreme religious people.
I think that Israel departure of Gaza pretty much prove that the settlements is not the reason why there's no peace already.