Interview with Ross Ulbricht's mom



I'm actually interested in this a bit. Didn't he try to take out murder contracts on 6 individuals? Is there a TLDR of this video, cause I'm a bit baffled on why people are ignoring the 6 murder contracts whenever I hear discussions about this guy. I love what he did with Silk Road and how it opened up a new world, but there still is the fact that he tried to have 6 people killed.

Is that really a person you want walking around the streets on bail, a person willing to take out contracts out on 6 individuals without a second thought?

The real perplexing thing is why would he keep a journal on his activities? If you create a website where people are exchanging "questionable" things, activities, etc - why would you in your right mind keep a journal about this? I need someone to explain this to me like I'm a 7 year old, cause I thought it was pretty black and white what's wrong.​
 
^^ If that were really true then conspiracy to commit murder should have topped his charges yet those charges were dropped as there was no evidence to support them. It was just sensationalist bullshit for the media to lap up.
 
Quoting wikipedia:

He faced charges of money laundering, computer hacking, conspiracy to traffic narcotics,[10][11] and attempting to kill 6 people.[12] However, the prosecutor believes that none of the 6 planned murders occurred, despite $730,000 being paid in the attempts.[12] The murder charges were later removed from the indictment[15] and Ulbricht was convicted on all of the remaining charges following a jury trial that concluded in February 2015.

Sauce: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dread_Pirate_Roberts_(Silk_Road)

So let's say this is true - he did pay for them right, some $730,000, or is this incorrect? cause I'm literally only harping on the fact that he was willing to pay for murder, whether he was prosecuted or not, or whatever that's besides my point. Was he willing to pay for murder?

Paging @macbook.​
 
I watched the Documentary on him and the trial, very interesting, not sure if the trial was fair, but this guy was fucking intelligent.
 
So there seriously were no murder charges?​

Nope. It was all just unproven allegations as far as I can tell. He was never charged with murder, or conspiracy to commit murder, or anything of the sort.

The mystery of the disappearing Silk Road murder charges

That's not to say that it didn't happen. With articles like this it seems it should be a clear cut case on the fed's part, yet they dropped it like a hot potato.

Read the Transcript of Silk Road's Boss Ordering 5 Assassinations | WIRED

It just smells so fishy.
 
I'm not too concerned with the charges, I'll leave it up to the government to handle that on their end and whatever their reasoning for not pursuing it. Maybe it was a sting operation and the people didn't follow protocol, I dunno.

I'm interested in the $730,000 that Mr. Ulbrichts was willing to pay for murder. That something that just seems to be glaringly a problem. From what I see he was willing to have 6 people killed. Just that fact alone should be a good enough reason to not let someone have bail, even if it's just suspected - him being willing to kill should be enough to not give him bail. That might be a public safety problem.

Imagine if your neighbor was out on bail on alleged charges of 6 murders, you might not feel too safe when he comes home, even if the charges are dropped afterwards. That immediate moment he comes home, you're going to be wondering why this guy is out on bail after 6 murder charges and you'll be concerned for yourself and your family. I guess my problem is why people don't understand that part on why he was denied bail.​
 
NO. There is *1* indictment that is still standing (soliciting to murder). The word is that the DOJ did not want to out the witnesses prior to the STM charges (eventually) being filed. This fucking place is like watching The Simpsons.
 
read the wired two part article if anyone has the time, great read
The Untold Story of Silk Road, Part 1 | WIRED

it delves into the progression of him from being non-violent to ordering hits on undercover police officers

The real perplexing thing is why would he keep a journal on his activities? If you create a website where people are exchanging "questionable" things, activities, etc - why would you in your right mind keep a journal about this?

he was cocksure that it would never be read by anyone else. it was encrypted and he had a hotkey in place that would lock the whole laptop. he was probably right. it was great policework to get the laptop unencrypted. a DEA agent faked a fight behind him in the library and when Ross turned around for a second, the FBI agent across from him grabbed the laptop. there was no case without that laptop, nothing to prove that Ross was DPR.

he definitely had to do prison time but I can't believe the length. if this case was in Ireland, he'd get 7 years max. probably out in 5. but our justice system is too soft.
 
I'd like to think my Mom would have nice things to say about me too, but her interview doesn't really do much to convince me that the evil government was out of line in punishing her angelic son.

He admitted to taking out contracts on people, the fact that he got ripped off and they didn't actually kill anyone doesn't change his actions or somehow absolve him of guilt.

As to why the government didn't pursue those charges, simple, they had plenty on him from the other stuff that was a slam-dunk, no reason to dilute things and possibly confuse a jury. You can only spend one "rest of your life" in prison. If I run a stoplight with a trunk full of illegal weapons, lead cops on a car-chase before wrecking and getting into a firefight killing two cops before they finally pin me down, the Prosecutor isn't out of line by not charging me with failure to obey a stop-sign. His mom's statements that the "murder charges not being pursued" was some kind of smoking gun is B.S., would he really be better off if they pursued those charges and didn't convict him on murder solicitation, but did on everything else? Of course not.

Ulbricht did some amazing things, things that will have a greater long-term effect on society in a digital age long after he's forgotten in his cell. That doesn't make him some kind of hero above reproach though, he knowingly broke laws, he hired people to kill those he thought posed a threat to his business. He's not a martyr, he did these things for his own selfish reasons, and you know the old saying, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
 
He admitted to taking out contracts on people, the fact that he got ripped off and they didn't actually kill anyone doesn't change his actions or somehow absolve him of guilt.

When did he admit this?

Also, isn't the bigger picture the fact that he didn't really get a fair trial. Even if he's an evil hitman, he was denied some common sense like ability to have experts testify on his behalf.
 
When did he admit this?

Also, isn't the bigger picture the fact that he didn't really get a fair trial. Even if he's an evil hitman, he was denied some common sense like ability to have experts testify on his behalf.

The Wired article references him admitting to the undercover agent, when attempting to do a new murder-for-hire, that he had done it previously.

I personally think he got a fair trial, and I'm a believer that even those charged with the worst of crimes deserves every opportunity to defend themselves. Certainly, the government came after him hard, to make an example out of him, but I don't think it reached a point of him not getting a fair trial. He wanted to play hardball, so they played it.

On the "experts testify" issue, he was in a Catch-22, and I think his legal defense team (which were well-paid, experienced people, its not like he got stuck with a junior public defender) made a tactical choice. If he wanted to claim that the info on the servers was privileged, then you have to admit its your property (you cant' have privilege otherwise). His defense team didn't want him to admit the servers were his, so he could continue with the theme of it was some "other" DPR, but then they can't claim that info on them is privileged if you won't admit they are yours. It was a risk they took, if he'd come out and said "ya, the servers are mine, this whole thing is mine, but I don't have anything do do with drugs being sold anymore then the Craiglist owners do, prove it" then the trial would have played out very differently. They chose the other approach, but they can't expect to have their cake and eat it too. Once the prosecution knew that was the defense's plan and Ross wasn't going to testify, then they knew tactically how to come after him, and they had a lot of evidence waiting to go.
I think the only other witness the defense raised a fuss about not being able to call was the computer expert from Columbia, and his testimony denied only because they didn't disclose him as a potential witness to the prosecution. You don't get to "ambush by witness" in a criminal trial. I don't think that guy's proposed testimony about technical Linux kernel issues were particularly relevant, but who knows, they could still appeal on that issue.

On the investigation side, I think there are things that were pretty iffy and bordering on entrapment (which probably has a lot to do with why they didn't pursue the murder-for-hire charges), but the trial itself gave him full opportunity, he had a well-funded defense, and every opportunity to present his side. He had bad facts though, and a prosecution case that was pretty air-tight on the charges they wanted to make stick. I'm a bit surprised the judge hit him with the max sentence, but it was still within sentencing range, and he and his defense team knew the risks. Given the guy's intelligence and resources, I'm still shocked he stayed in the U.S. That arrogance was ultimately his downfall. If he'd gone to a different country , imo, they would never have brought him down, extraditing someone on those types of facts would be tough. Staying in a jurisdiction like the U..S. where the things he was charged with are clearly crimes, that was a risky move, and he paid for it.

People want to jump to his defense because they paint him as this modern-day libertarian Robin Hood, who was sticking it to "The Man", but that doesn't change that hiring people to kill others is a crime, aiding and abetting the sale of Schedule 1 narcotics is a crime, profiting from the sale of narcotics is a crime, etc. He's no freedom fighter, he didn't get rail-roaded, he played a high-stakes game and lost, but it was his choice to play it. If he'd personally killed those people he thought he was having killed by others, I think people would have a lot less romanticized view of what he really is.
 
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Apparently excessively high levels of Bullshit can pull me back to WickedFire for a bit...

Ross isn't an angel, but there is simply way too much fishy about his takedown for anyone to be at all satisfied with the court decision. It needed to be declared a mistrial about 20 different freaking times! It's beyond a mockery; it was a textbook kangaroo court proceeding.

The Wired article references him admitting to the undercover agent, when attempting to do a new murder-for-hire, that he had done it previously.
No matter who wrote the article, consider who the main investigating/undercover officers were that took Ross down; the source of these allogations: Former agents Carl Force of the DEA and Shaun Bridges of the Secret Service... Both Caught & arrested & Fired after milking Ross for huge amounts of money. (Which they tried to hide from their bosses.)

Silk Road Revisited?GAYArrest of Ex-FedsGAYMight Force New Trial forGAYDread Pirate - Bloomberg Business

These were the very guys who accused Ross of paying for murder.

These were the very guys who posed as the hitmen and the users Ross was to Hit.

These were the very guys who engineered a situation (that would not have existed otherwise) that forced Ross to feel he had no choice but to do the hit(s) in order to save his income and users' privacy.

In other words, these corrupt-as-fuck cops forced him into it, it's all proven, and they've been arrested for it.

How the fuck isn't this a mistrial? These deeds were known well in advance of the trial!


I personally think he got a fair trial, and I'm a believer that even those charged with the worst of crimes deserves every opportunity to defend themselves.
Well then...

I hope you were just completely out of the loop.


People want to jump to his defense because they paint him as this modern-day libertarian Robin Hood, who was sticking it to "The Man", but that doesn't change that hiring people to kill others is a crime,
Not if it was entrapment.


aiding and abetting the sale of Schedule 1 narcotics is a crime,
FUCK THAT.

Look what happens in countries that decriminalize drugs... At this point the american people should absolutely have torches and pitchforks in DC threatening the lives of their congresscritters to end the drug war... If only public education allowed them to think about drugs rationally instead of how politicians want them to think about them.


If he'd personally killed those people he thought he was having killed by others, I think people would have a lot less romanticized view of what he really is.
LOL. This would never, ever, EVER have conceivably happened, and that's the whole point.

Ross was a nerd, plain and simple. Not the brightest nerd, either. I love his cause but he wasn't the strongest nor the brightest to attempt it at all.
 
Glad to see you back LukeP!

That is my main problem is well. These 'murders' were fabricated ideas/plots created by the US Gov to entrap Ross so they could throw some crazy charges at him.
 
The Wired article references him admitting to the undercover agent, when attempting to do a new murder-for-hire, that he had done it previously.

I personally think he got a fair trial, and I'm a believer that even those charged with the worst of crimes deserves every opportunity to defend themselves. Certainly, the government came after him hard, to make an example out of him, but I don't think it reached a point of him not getting a fair trial. He wanted to play hardball, so they played it.

On the "experts testify" issue, he was in a Catch-22, and I think his legal defense team (which were well-paid, experienced people, its not like he got stuck with a junior public defender) made a tactical choice. If he wanted to claim that the info on the servers was privileged, then you have to admit its your property (you cant' have privilege otherwise). His defense team didn't want him to admit the servers were his, so he could continue with the theme of it was some "other" DPR, but then they can't claim that info on them is privileged if you won't admit they are yours. It was a risk they took, if he'd come out and said "ya, the servers are mine, this whole thing is mine, but I don't have anything do do with drugs being sold anymore then the Craiglist owners do, prove it" then the trial would have played out very differently. They chose the other approach, but they can't expect to have their cake and eat it too. Once the prosecution knew that was the defense's plan and Ross wasn't going to testify, then they knew tactically how to come after him, and they had a lot of evidence waiting to go.
I think the only other witness the defense raised a fuss about not being able to call was the computer expert from Columbia, and his testimony denied only because they didn't disclose him as a potential witness to the prosecution. You don't get to "ambush by witness" in a criminal trial. I don't think that guy's proposed testimony about technical Linux kernel issues were particularly relevant, but who knows, they could still appeal on that issue.

On the investigation side, I think there are things that were pretty iffy and bordering on entrapment (which probably has a lot to do with why they didn't pursue the murder-for-hire charges), but the trial itself gave him full opportunity, he had a well-funded defense, and every opportunity to present his side. He had bad facts though, and a prosecution case that was pretty air-tight on the charges they wanted to make stick. I'm a bit surprised the judge hit him with the max sentence, but it was still within sentencing range, and he and his defense team knew the risks. Given the guy's intelligence and resources, I'm still shocked he stayed in the U.S. That arrogance was ultimately his downfall. If he'd gone to a different country , imo, they would never have brought him down, extraditing someone on those types of facts would be tough. Staying in a jurisdiction like the U..S. where the things he was charged with are clearly crimes, that was a risky move, and he paid for it.

People want to jump to his defense because they paint him as this modern-day libertarian Robin Hood, who was sticking it to "The Man", but that doesn't change that hiring people to kill others is a crime, aiding and abetting the sale of Schedule 1 narcotics is a crime, profiting from the sale of narcotics is a crime, etc. He's no freedom fighter, he didn't get rail-roaded, he played a high-stakes game and lost, but it was his choice to play it. If he'd personally killed those people he thought he was having killed by others, I think people would have a lot less romanticized view of what he really is.


I'll be the first to admit I'm sympathetic for the guy because of my hatred for the war on drugs. He was, at least at first, trying to prove a point with Silk Road. If he's guilty of murder-for-hire, then maybe he failed at his mission, but I think that was at least his intent. For the record, I never bought anything on Silk Road, but I did read through the forum and read his posts. He's an interesting guy (albeit a bit arrogant- he mentioned a few times that he didn't think he could get caught) and a lot of what he said, publicly at least, paints him as a crusader. He liked the money too, and referenced that he did buy some luxuries, but mostly he lived modestly. Unfortunately, he overplayed his hand and things got to big for him to handle. I personally don't think it would have mattered where in the world he went though. With this type of case they would have pulled out all the stops to get him, or just rendered him.

He was entrapped on the murder-for-hire, so who knows if he would have carried this out on his own, if not prompted. It was Force that offered these services. Who knows if he would have thought he had the capability to have this carried out. For all we know he might have erased the site from existence and disappeared to avoid getting caught. This new trend with DHS and the FBI to entrap potential would-be killers, and claim that because the have the potential to commit crimes that they would isn't right. I also have questions regarding the screens shots of the chat conversations. We know agent Force is corrupt, so I have questions about any of his testimony or evidence that he could have easily fabricated.

I disagree with the judge allowing the prosecutors to paint him as a murder-for-hire gangster to the jury without the charging him. That taints his character from the beginning. If they have the evidence to prove it, then they should have charged him with that crime from the beginning. Otherwise, it shouldn't have been brought up in this trial, or at least not in front of the jury. That alone makes the trial unfair since it severely damages his character.

The judge's ties to Chuck Schumer seem like a massive conflict of interest to me. If she's buddies with the guy that lead the charge against the Silk Road, how could she possibly be unbiased? She's a crusader in her own right for the war on drugs.

Also it wasn't fair to deny the defense the opportunity to point the finger at Karples. They have strong evidence to suggest that, at least at some point, Karples was running the site. Since they declined to claim the server, seems like this was basically their entire defense. The judge seemed to think it was reasonable at first, but then flip-flopped had the initial testimony about this struck from the record. I'd at least like to know if she had a legitimate reason, or if she was just throwing a bone to her buddies on the prosecution, which is what it looks like.

Also, given that Force was under investigation for stealing Bitcoins, corruption, etc, I think the jury had a right to know that. Isn't part of poking a whole in the prosecution's case being able to discredit bad or corrupt witnesses?

On the expert testimony side of things, I get what you are saying. Seems like, given the evidence against they already had against Ross, it would have made more sense to claim the server and stick the with the fruit from a forbidden tree defense. I'd love to know Dratel's reasoning for this decision. Also, I believe that one of their experts was going to talk about how the evidence was handled wasn't he? That would be relevant it seems... However, there is the allegation that the evidence (Ross's computer) may have been mishandled and one of their experts wanted to testify about that.

The sentencing was absolutely extreme in this case. Rapists and actual murders get less time. Even if he is guilty of the murder-for-hire charge, then he should get a long prison sentence, but should be given the chance to get out before he dies. But he wasn't convicted of murder-for-hire, he was convicted of conspiracy, kingpin, facilitating the sale of drugs, etc., so to sentence him based on a charge the prosecutors didn't file doesn't seem fair.
 
If you solicit murder, the murder doesn't need to occur for you to be charged and convicted. If the feds dropped the solicitation of murder charges they were either bullshit or they didn't want to go to trial on them for some reason.