C&D Advice on high income domain

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Ajay

Ajay

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Apr 10, 2007
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So today after over 18 months of hassel free income one of my sites that is currently making over $1k a month automously has received a C&D notice.

The domain is a two word domain name (eg www. buy-product.net) with the product being the trademarked name that is sold through my site.

The site gets about 700-1000 vistors a day via natural search.

This site I have worked hard for an am not wanting to give it up easily.

The C&D states use of infringed copyright logo and that i am cyber squatting on their name.

The shop runs amazon associate script which is working well for me.

The target market is USA as product is only available in the states but I reside in Australia.

My question is, can I sell the domain before any further action is taken or can I fight the C&D to keep the domain name?

Anyone that has had experience with this before I would greatly apprecaite your help.

Cheers guys

Ajay.
 


If it's making 1k month, wouldn't it be worth asking a lawyer for a few hundred bucks and being sure of the answer?

Where in Aus are you?
 
If its a real C&D you could fight it but if you don't want all the hassle and are looking for a quick fix, this is what you do, go out and buy another closely related domain name that doesn't include there trademark.

Transfer your site over to the new domain name and get rid of any images they may have also bitched about.

Then before selling the C&D domain simply put up your .htaccess file to redirect the search bots for a month or two just long enough for them to properly re-index everything under the new domain.

From there sell the old domain and your in the clear.
 
???

As I see it, they are accusing you of two things:

1) YOu are using their logo. If you are, remove it-
2) You are cybersquatting their name, which - IMHO - is utter BS. As their name is "productX", whereas you have "buy-productX".

Invest a few hundred in a lawyer, tho.

::emp::
 
Contact an attorney but I would shut the domain down. It sounds like you are infringing on their trademark if you have their product name in your domain name.

Going to court is costly and you would most likely lose anyways. You could also be found liable for damages of up to $100,000 for each domain name violation under the acpa:

Domain Name Disputes: FAQ - The Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act

The Act authorizes a court to order the forfeiture or cancellation of a domain name or the transfer of the domain name to the owner of the mark. In lieu of actual damages, the plaintiff may elect statutory damages and the court has discretion to award damages of not less than $1,000 and not more than $100,000 per domain name, as the court considers just.

You should be happy with the money that you've collected so far from your domain and just shut the domain down in my opinion.
 
Better yet:
1. Move your hosting somewhere that they have no legal jurisdiction. ie. out of the US
2. Transfer your domain name to a registrar that doesn't fold to C&D's. This has been discussed before.
3. Continue to profit while they pound dirt into their vaginas.
 
Rage9 said:
Better yet:
1. Move your hosting somewhere that they have no legal jurisdiction. ie. out of the US
2. Transfer your domain name to a registrar that doesn't fold to C&D's. This has been discussed before.
3. Continue to profit while they pound dirt into their vaginas.
Click to expand...

If he's an affiliate, if they wanted they could simply notify the network that Affiliate X is violating their terms and it's over anyway. Unless you can add the words "Unoffical Fan Site" or something similar without blowing your sales, it's probably better to redirect all the traffic to a new domain.
 
Wonderful misinformation!

Aequitas said:
From there sell the old domain and your in the clear.
Click to expand...

Completely untrue. Even if you sell the domain after a C&D, you're still 100% liable for damages up to $100,000 per name under the ACPA. Not only that, but you now look more guilty since you got rid of the domain and you have no negotiating power anymore because you can't bargain with the site. This is very bad advice.

emp said:
2) You are cybersquatting their name, which - IMHO - is utter BS. As their name is "productX", whereas you have "buy-productX".
Click to expand...

Quality legal advice right here. Why don't you go register buy-windowsxp.com and buy-windowvista.com and see what happens? Honestly, why do you think you're qualified to advise on trademark law?

Rage9 said:
1. Move your hosting somewhere that they have no legal jurisdiction. ie. out of the US
2. Transfer your domain name to a registrar that doesn't fold to C&D's. This has been discussed before.
Click to expand...

Another great post. Did you know all .coms and .nets fall under jurisdiction of Verisign, who is based in the US? Doesn't matter the country of the registrar or the host, the OP can be sued under ACPA or UDRPed because of Verisign's location.

I'm falling in love with the wonderful info in WF domain threads!
 
I see ...

@dullspace... my only legalö advice here was "get a lawyer" the aboce was my OPINION on why there could be no case.

::emp::
 
Here is what I would do:

  • Write a long, thoughtful letter to the folks that sent you the C&D.
  • Explain that you are a fan/supporter of their product and are trying your best to represent it in a purely positive fashion.
  • Tell them, out of respect, you have ceased all advertising campaigns until the matter can be resolved.
  • Tell them you have put a ton of hard work, time and money into making this site the best it can be and you'd love to make an arrangement where you could continue helping them promote their great product.
  • Ask them if there is anything you can do to find a middle ground. Such as, clearly identifying in the banner graphic that you are a "fan site".
  • Putting a disclaimer in the footer that says you are in NO way affiliated with the company, and linking to their company website... etc...
At the end, tell them you hope you can come to an agreement but, if they choose to pursue their C&D, they'll have to send you formal legal documents in the mail because you've had "scam" attempts in the past where people claim to be someone they're not.

I have done this before and had success. Let us know how it goes.

GOODLUCK!
 
I would do a combination of what trigatch4 and Aequitas suggest.

Stroke 'em like trigatch4 suggests, that may buy some time or get you out of it all to gether.

But start moving the site away from that name as Aequitas suggests, just in case stroking them doesn't work.

It takes time to move a site like that and you'll take a hit initially, but you can recover.
 
I own several trademark-infringed domains, and I receive C&D's on a regular basis. I've worked with attorneys on several occasions. In a nutshell, what I can tell you is this:

It's only illegal to own and operate a domain with a trademark if that domain and the sites content can easily be misconstrued for the trademark which is being infringed upon. Said differently:

Buy-XYZBrand.com - Trademark Infringement here, as the public could easily mistake your domain for the official domain of XYZBrand.

XYZBrandSucks.com - Refrain from using copyrighted logos and you're okay here, because the domain could not easily be mistaken for the actual mark.

Again as everyone else has said, consult with your attorney.

EDIT: Also, always assume that you're going to lose a potential trademark infringement. The company that sent you the C&D has the legal resources to fight you in court, and you probably don't. Court isn't fun for anyone, believe me.
 
trigatch4 said:
Here is what I would do:
  • Write a long, thoughtful letter to the folks that sent you the C&D.
  • Explain that you are a fan/supporter of their product and are trying your best to represent it in a purely positive fashion.
  • Tell them, out of respect, you have ceased all advertising campaigns until the matter can be resolved.
  • Tell them you have put a ton of hard work, time and money into making this site the best it can be and you'd love to make an arrangement where you could continue helping them promote their great product.
  • Ask them if there is anything you can do to find a middle ground. Such as, clearly identifying in the banner graphic that you are a "fan site".
  • Putting a disclaimer in the footer that says you are in NO way affiliated with the company, and linking to their company website... etc...
At the end, tell them you hope you can come to an agreement but, if they choose to pursue their C&D, they'll have to send you formal legal documents in the mail because you've had "scam" attempts in the past where people claim to be someone they're not.

I have done this before and had success. Let us know how it goes.

GOODLUCK!
Click to expand...

(Did the C&D come from the USA?)


I so strongly disagree.

If you write it, it becomes part of their eventual case against you and the judge/jury/atty for the other guy will read it. You are not a lawyer, they are, and it's likely something you write will simply help the other guy.

Domain disputes are sort of a "know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em" situation. These issues take 1-3 years to resolve and about $10,000 to $40,000 in legal fees for you alone. Best bet is to immediately get a new domain, move the content/traffic over the course of a few months, and give up the domain they sent the C&D about. By the time this comes to a hearing, your new domain should be gold. Keep in mind you may want to host it on a new box/IP. Domaintools is a pretty easy way for the other guys to find all your domains and you don't want to make it too easy for them to find the new domain.

My organization is suing a guy right now over something extremely similar. He doesn't have a chance, but it's already a PR nightmare for us. Lose-Lose both ways.


Of course, did the C&D come from the USA? If you're down under, just tell them to fuck off. These guys do it pretty well.
 
tell me about it.

Dont fuck with Trademarks, you are going to lose over and over again.
Wf is kick ass for developing and marketing techniques, but damn it you guys better not fuck with trademarks. After that kevin ham article companies are becoming more and more aggresive with domainers, and you cant hide unless you are using .cn or any other international extension where the goverments dont give a fuck. Dullspace you should apply for domain guide in here, your help is wildly needed.

Dullspace said:
Completely untrue. Even if you sell the domain after a C&D, you're still 100% liable for damages up to $100,000 per name under the ACPA. Not only that, but you now look more guilty since you got rid of the domain and you have no negotiating power anymore because you can't bargain with the site. This is very bad advice.
Quality legal advice right here. Why don't you go register buy-windowsxp.com and buy-windowvista.com and see what happens? Honestly, why do you think you're qualified to advise on trademark law?



Another great post. Did you know all .coms and .nets fall under jurisdiction of Verisign, who is based in the US? Doesn't matter the country of the registrar or the host, the OP can be sued under ACPA or UDRPed because of Verisign's location.

I'm falling in love with the wonderful info in WF domain threads!
Click to expand...
 
Is this a well known company with deep pockets? If so you likely stand no chance against their team of lawyers.
 
Another great post. Did you know all .coms and .nets fall under jurisdiction of Verisign, who is based in the US? Doesn't matter the country of the registrar or the host, the OP can be sued under ACPA or UDRPed because of Verisign's location.
Click to expand...
Dullspace you are a dumb fuck. I have personally never herd of this - doesn't mean it's not true, but prove it for fuck sakes. No Link = speculation. And even so doesn't mean verisign will get involved. Lots of money can be involved.

I have herd of others whom have transfered their names to say, a frech registrar, or whatnot where US interests could not touch them. Again, prove otherwise. I hear they exist.

Same thing goes for webspace. A US C&D will not hold up in another country.

Further more good luck suing you in AUS when the real problem is in the US. I'd doubt it would go that far.

Frankley unless I received a summons [and yes I have been sued before] I would do jack shit.

It's hard to sue someone outside the US, get it out of US control [like Russia] and proceed to not care.

Again prove me wrong. I may be wrong but show me for fuck sakes. Lot's of things are fucked up in the legal system.
 
Rage9 said:
Dullspace you are a dumb fuck. I have personally never herd of this - doesn't mean it's not true, but prove it for fuck sakes. No Link = speculation. And even so doesn't mean verisign will get involved. Lots of money can be involved.

I have herd of others whom have transfered their names to say, a frech registrar, or whatnot where US intrests could not touch them. Again, prove otherwise. I hear they exist.

Same thing goes for webspace. A US C&D will not hold up in another country.

I'm wiating.
Click to expand...


I thought they fell under the jurisdiction of ICANN (WIPO?) too. But whatever the case, a US C&D for a tiny little domain won't mean shit in Aussieville.

Google "Mike Rowe Soft" for a US/Canadian take on the principle.
 
bb_wolfe said:
I thought they fell under the jurisdiction of ICANN (WIPO?) too. But whatever the case, a US C&D for a tiny little domain won't mean shit in Aussieville.

Google "Mike Rowe Soft" for a US/Canadian take on the principle.
Click to expand...

Again that's what I'm saying, make sure the domain [and webhost] is not with a US registrar and you will not have many problems.

Suing in another country [for a domain] is pretty hard.

I know I can escape credit card debt by moving to another county, so how the fuck are they going to sue you for a domain?
 
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