Question for people with offline biz clients

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phil9922

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I have never done any work with offline businesses in the past, but a friend of mine who runs a company has asked me if I'd help his them with some SEO/SEM for his business. My friend manages this company and the owners have agreed to a certain budget for the marketing. I'd like to be able to present the owners with some information like a plan and pricing breakdown, but I've never done anything like this before.

I know there are people on this forum who have offline businesses as clients, and I was wondering if there is any good software or maybe ms office templates for neatly organizing this info?
 


good link.

Just keep in mind that local clients (even if you know them) are the neediest damn clients in the world.
 
narsticle said:
good link.

Just keep in mind that local clients (even if you know them) are the neediest damn clients in the world.
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I was about to try some local clients myself. When you say 'neediest', do you mean they call you for everything? That would be OK with me as long as there was an invoice I could follow it up with.
 
narsticle said:
good link.

Just keep in mind that local clients (even if you know them) are the neediest damn clients in the world.
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(even if you know them) == (especially if you know them)

Yes zeros, you can bill them but they usually whine about it because they expect phone support to be free. Their thinking is that it's just like any office, you call and get to talk with someone.

The problem is, if you didn't find the client on the net, there is a good chance they are computer illiterate and will call you 5 times per week with all kinds of stupid shit.

Apparently internet development is a synonym for email support, virus protection, excel macro writer, dvd drive won't eject ...

Your best bet is to charge a monthly fee worth about 10 hours of your work and adjust that as needed. Some idiots are more maintenance than others.
 
phil9922 said:
I have never done any work with offline businesses in the past, but a friend of mine who runs a company has asked me if I'd help his them with some SEO/SEM for his business. My friend manages this company and the owners have agreed to a certain budget for the marketing. I'd like to be able to present the owners with some information like a plan and pricing breakdown, but I've never done anything like this before.

I know there are people on this forum who have offline businesses as clients, and I was wondering if there is any good software or maybe ms office templates for neatly organizing this info?
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What type of buisiness is it? Is it a service you can drive leads to and aget paid per lead or commission on a sale?

The prob is if you do their SEO then you should charge for it based on results (IE, each main KW they get on front page for you get $X,XXX) But they are likely too cheap to commit to such a high amount, as most local small biz are.

But if you say "Ok, you make $1000 on every sale, and you close 20% of your qualified leads, so i'll sell you leads for $25 a pop and you'll avg a profit of $175 a lead. So you'll profit $1750 for every 10 leads"

that way it's a win/win, but they need you long term and won't go crazy over seeing a high short term cost.

Just find out their avg profit margina nd how well they close leads and start from there. then you can adjust prices from there.
 
LotsOfZeros said:
I was about to try some local clients myself. When you say 'neediest', do you mean they call you for everything? That would be OK with me as long as there was an invoice I could follow it up with.
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Here are some down points of working with local businesses.....trust me I know what I'm talking about:

#1 - They are cheap as hell (and sketchy). They will agree to something and then not pay you later. Get all monies up front.

#2 - They are obnoxious and needy. These fuckers will call you multiple times per day if they want something and don't feel they are getting enough attention. Not only will they call you, every person at their business will call you. Your lead gen campaign just turned into setting up everyones outlook.

#3 - Even when they get GREAT results and are only paying per lead, they still bitch. They bitch because most of these idiots don't know how to sell something unless the customer is sitting in front of them, tied to the chair with their wallets in their mouth. Local businesses SUCK at selling, particularly a lead they got that is on the phone or in their email and will blame the quality of your leads for their inabilities.

Yes, I'm sour on local businesses BUT for good reason.
 
It's a moving company, so I can and probably will do per lead. I'm supposed to hear from them again today so I'll see what they say when I tell them that. When I spoke with them before, it seemed like they wanted a flat-rate monthly advertising fee which I was unsure about.
 
phil9922 said:
It's a moving company, so I can and probably will do per lead. I'm supposed to hear from them again today so I'll see what they say when I tell them that. When I spoke with them before, it seemed like they wanted a flat-rate monthly advertising fee which I was unsure about.
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Yeah, do per lead. Figure they charge on avg $500-$1500 per job depending where you live. If yu live in a nice area it's probably more. But if it's an area with a lot of apartments most jobs are probably in that range.

They hey is to find out what they charge on average and what their margins are. They probably won't be so open about the margins, but you gonna know how much to charge per lead.

Maybe start around $10 or $15?
 
rgordon83 said:
Yeah, do per lead. Figure they charge on avg $500-$1500 per job depending where you live. If yu live in a nice area it's probably more. But if it's an area with a lot of apartments most jobs are probably in that range.

They hey is to find out what they charge on average and what their margins are. They probably won't be so open about the margins, but you gonna know how much to charge per lead.

Maybe start around $10 or $15?
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I'll have to do some research to see how much to charge. I did the same thing with a mortgage company last year...with most aff programs the going rate for mortgage leads is usually around $17-25...I was able to get $40 per lead from the broker I was selling to on the terms that I kept it exclusive to them and didn't resell the leads. I'm going to try to work out a similar deal with the movers.
 
phil9922 said:
I'll have to do some research to see how much to charge. I did the same thing with a mortgage company last year...with most aff programs the going rate for mortgage leads is usually around $17-25...I was able to get $40 per lead from the broker I was selling to on the terms that I kept it exclusive to them and didn't resell the leads. I'm going to try to work out a similar deal with the movers.
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Nice. keep in mind mortgage guys make A LOT more closing a loan than a mover does.

P.s i'm actually meeting with a mortgage broker i know next week to discuss selling him leads. How did you do in that area? Make a lot of money?
 
My suggestion is stay away from freelance or consulting crap.

I did one consulting gig here locally with a fairly reputable firm. I have a friend that was building out a site for them and he asked if I'd consult with his client on channels how to sell his products online. This is going back a year and they were interested in channels for marketing their products on the internet.

First off I didn't want to do it so I set a super high price of 700$/hour, unfortunately they said yes. So I went and consulted with them for 2 hours. Left then invoiced them they called me for a week after that asking me questions. To this day they still have never paid me. Kept saying they would but I have still haven't received a check.

Honestly I don't care much about the $1400 but it's more the principle of the matter. Some guy gets me to spend my time to drive out there help him out and then just doesn't pay. So I call and talk shit to him to his front desk every once in a while when I feel like taking out some frustrations. And I have outranked them for position 1-3 with some blogs saying about how they don't pay their creditors.

But in short stay as far away as you can from consulting or freelancing. They're just HUGE time sinkholes.
 
smaxor said:
My suggestion is stay away from freelance or consulting crap.

I did one consulting gig here locally with a fairly reputable firm. I have a friend that was building out a site for them and he asked if I'd consult with his client on channels how to sell his products online. This is going back a year and they were interested in channels for marketing their products on the internet.

First off I didn't want to do it so I set a super high price of 700$/hour, unfortunately they said yes. So I went and consulted with them for 2 hours. Left then invoiced them they called me for a week after that asking me questions. To this day they still have never paid me. Kept saying they would but I have still haven't received a check.

Honestly I don't care much about the $1400 but it's more the principle of the matter. Some guy gets me to spend my time to drive out there help him out and then just doesn't pay. So I call and talk shit to him to his front desk every once in a while when I feel like taking out some frustrations. And I have outranked them for position 1-3 with some blogs saying about how they don't pay their creditors.

But in short stay as far away as you can from consulting or freelancing. They're just HUGE time sinkholes.
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Good take on this. I have had WAY too many of the same situations. Local small businesses suck.
 
reminds me of the time when I tried refering host gator to local bizs and let me tell ya, most of these people are IDIOTS.

All they do is talk talk talk ... mother fuckers.
 
This is actually right in my ballpark...
I have several offline clients...and there are keys to getting rid of some of the headaches typically experienced (some were mentioned in this thread)...

1) You need to do business with offline clients with money, and who are not afraid to spend it (read: understand that marketing online will help and has a return on investment). Contrary to popular belief, yes, these offline clients do exist, they are a pleasure to work with, and you can make some good dough per month...pretty damn reliably, by cultivating relationships with them.

2) You need to reach deep down, and have the resolve to tell these owners how it is upfront. This doesn't have to be rude, but firm.

For example, I usually joke around with them after I build some rapport...saying things like "too many phone calls per month and your monthly rate doubles, lol"...they usually laugh, and mysteriously develop respect for your time.

Use your imagination, and your own personality here...one approach WILL NOT work for ALL offline business owners...and your personality WILL not blend with ALL business owners...if you sense that, cut the ties and move on to the next one, there's plenty of market to go 'round. :)

314) Also contrary to popular belief, if you go for the right market, these people are NOT idiots...just remember, they don't understand IM like you do...and I believe we were all n00bs once, right?

The "needy", "talkative", and such...well...some people don't get into business with a business mindset, believe it or not. These people are not your market, so just cut the ties with them and move on to the next (may I suggest that you do a little deeper market research and get to the clients with money?).

You may be asking...

"Where/who are the clients with the money?"

Well, actually each industry has them, but some industries are more likely to more easily produce them...

Lawyers, Doctors, Chiropractors (Dan Kennedy started here), Dentists, Offline Business Consultants (you would be surprised at their lack of IM knowledge), and more.

And no, they don't call you all the time...they don't have the time to themselves once you show them the IM world and plus, they are busier than heck anyhow. Your standpoint will mainly center around SEO and keeping in touch with their customers and clients.

There is a TON more to this...but I figured this should help a little at least.
 
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In reference to the above post, I am NOT directing any of this as an insult to anyone here...but there really is a GREAT opportunity with offline clients, the ones that have money and understand marketing that is...and the offline clients are all n00bs when it comes to this.

If you are getting into this part of internet business (serving offline clients with your IM expertise)...your main hurdle will be to find the clients that understand marketing, so you don't have to educate them as much. Your market is these clients, there are plenty of them, so the other "time-suckers" could simply be directed to the basics (not your services). Tell them to get a library card, and use it...so they can study marketing on their own, then contact you once they have that understanding.

One more thing...

I touched on this in my previous post in this thread...but these folks won't call you all the time with "stupid stuff" if you establish clear expectations upfront...and collect almost all monies upfront.

The potential clients that don't like your expectations, or who "can't" pay upfront at all (most of them actually can), just cut ties with them and move on...there's plenty that will hire you strictly for your expertise...and will find other resources for the other shit.

I learned this the hard way in the beginning (about 3 years ago), and at first I didn't establish expectations upfront...I also realized that I can't help everyone with everything all the time...so establishing those expectations is critical to your success once you find someone in your market.
 
A good chunk of my income is with local businesses. I've been doing it for four years. After awhile, you develop a keen sense of smell. Some clients will be respectful of your time and pay your invoices. They understand you should be treated like a whore. Some clients will try to treat you like a slut, get all they can out of you and not pay a dime.

With the latter, you just leave as quick as you can. Hell, I can smoke out the second types on the first phone call. But I did nearly starve and missed a few mortgage payments before figuring that out.

Two things to keep in mind when dealing with local businesses:
1) Always cut the deal with the OWNER, not the "president" or "general manager" or his bleepin' younger brother or even his wife. The... owner... only.
2) Statement of work or SOW, signed by you and the owner. The SOW should exclude virus protection or freakin' outlook or whatever.

And one last bit of advice. I always work on retainer, especially if the customer is computer illiterate. I never work on T&M or time & material. T&M is another great way to miss mortgage payments.
 
narsticle said:
Here are some down points of working with local businesses.....trust me I know what I'm talking about:

#1 - They are cheap as hell (and sketchy). They will agree to something and then not pay you later. Get all monies up front.

#2 - They are obnoxious and needy. These fuckers will call you multiple times per day if they want something and don't feel they are getting enough attention. Not only will they call you, every person at their business will call you. Your lead gen campaign just turned into setting up everyones outlook.

#3 - Even when they get GREAT results and are only paying per lead, they still bitch. They bitch because most of these idiots don't know how to sell something unless the customer is sitting in front of them, tied to the chair with their wallets in their mouth. Local businesses SUCK at selling, particularly a lead they got that is on the phone or in their email and will blame the quality of your leads for their inabilities.

Yes, I'm sour on local businesses BUT for good reason.
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You've dealt with car dealerships, right? I had the exact same experience. Setup a single site for their sub-prime targeted vehicles and next thing you know it's 2am and I get a call from the owner asking why his wireless doesn't work.

The best policy for anyone getting into that space is to either let them know you're not tech support or charge $150/hour upfront for any tech support. The last thing you want is to waste your week doing break/fix for free.
 
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