Zip Code Submits Concern...

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Diorex

Diorex

Chasing the long tail
Dec 7, 2006
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Tejas
I have a test through 2 different companies for zip submits. They are running the exact same offer with almost identical landing pages and the same payout.

I am sending a lot of traffic to both campaigns through a RNG script - 50% to each offer - Same traffic source, same number of impressions, hugely different results.

One converts about 1 in 6 - the other converts about 1 in 70 over almost 1,000 impressions each!

So, I ran some test submits to see what might be causing this issue. I have noticed that in Firefox for one of the networks a text box pops-up with some sort of a countdown timer from 300 seconds. (I do not see the box in Explorer, I think it might be getting zapped by a popupblocker, nor does it show on either browser for the other network.)

Obviously, there is something different here since everything else is virtually the same. Is there something about this 300 second box that means I am only getting paid if the customer stays on the site for 300 seconds?

These zip submits are trash and are designed to run the customer off after getting name and email. Is one network allowing the advertiser to not pay me only on the zip submits and requiring 5 minutes of user time?

Obviously, I am no longer splitting, but the huge disparity in returns really makes me question if I am truly being paid on a zip submit or some other undefined metric.

Anyone else seen this kind of issue?
 


I'm not sure about the whole 'timer' thing you're talking about, but I am aware that some networks will 'scrub' your leads so that if someone has previously registered for that particular offer (or maybe even any other similar offers.......most zip submits are practically identical after the initial landing page) then it won't count.
 
You have experienced Pixel misfires. Basically the network you're running the lower campaign with is benefiting greatly with the misfires that you're not credited for. The leads are most likely there but don't register in the system because the pixel cant read the cookie.

So to better understand this is how it works

network A and B get the same offer from Advertiser 1. Advertiser 1 places Network A and B's tracking pixel on the page after the conversion. A tracking pixel must load in order for the network to see the cookie and credit the action accordingly.

the problem with this is on the popular offers there might be 10-50 tracking pixels. If network A has their pixel place as the 1st and network B is the 5th pixel then A loads first and B loads second. normally this is not an issue however if the pixel in position 3 on the page locks up and doesn't load then the Pixel for network B never fires thus causing the conversion to not be counted in their system. Ever wonder how a network pays you 100% of what they get? They are fucking you, and knowingly doing it.

Test the same offer in multiple networks, some networks aren't even aware of this and some are. I can rattle off a ton of networks who operate on the premise that 10-20% of the conversion wont count in the system so its all free money to them, so they entice affiliates with high payouts but in the end fuck you with a lower yield.

For a moment just step back and look at the network youre doing business with. If they are making 5% margin on the offers they give you, how can they actually operate and turn a profit? There is operating costs, super affiliate commissions, technology costs, commission costs to the sales and AM's. Do you think they are in it for free? There is a smoke and mirror game going on that affiliates aren't clued in to.

Now i am sure that some people will flame me for this post, but i don't fucking care. I think the games people play are ridiculous and in the end causes more problems for those networks who are aware of this and fight it. In our network we always push for premium pixel placement. If you read the posts about Copeac on this board you'll find a good amount of people saying that they ran the same offer with us and had a better conversion. That is because we strive to keep our pixel misfires to a bare minimum (less than 4%) while others look at the pixel misfire as an early Christmas present.

Test it yourself, if i am wrong post on WF that i am a lying asshole, however 99% of the time I will be right.
 
Is there a way to minimize or check for pixel misfires other than testing the same offer on different networks?
 
Jdog said:
Is there a way to minimize or check for pixel misfires other than testing the same offer on different networks?
Click to expand...

Not really unless someone comes up with a better tracking solution. You'll find through testing that the same network will be higher 90% of the time, if you're able to find that network stick with it.

You'll also find out real fast which networks to avoid, if one offer converts half on Network A VS network B then Network A will always be crap.
 
I guess you could always sign up for the offer and on each page check the source to see whats being loaded where. This is just a guess, I've never thought about this issue before.
 
JeremyL said:
I guess you could always sign up for the offer and on each page check the source to see whats being loaded where. This is just a guess, I've never thought about this issue before.
Click to expand...

You could but most sites hide the pixels. Seriously test the same offer in multiple networks.
 
Diorex said:
I have a test through 2 different companies for zip submits. They are running the exact same offer with almost identical landing pages and the same payout.

I am sending a lot of traffic to both campaigns through a RNG script - 50% to each offer - Same traffic source, same number of impressions, hugely different results.

One converts about 1 in 6 - the other converts about 1 in 70 over almost 1,000 impressions each!

So, I ran some test submits to see what might be causing this issue. I have noticed that in Firefox for one of the networks a text box pops-up with some sort of a countdown timer from 300 seconds. (I do not see the box in Explorer, I think it might be getting zapped by a popupblocker, nor does it show on either browser for the other network.)

Obviously, there is something different here since everything else is virtually the same. Is there something about this 300 second box that means I am only getting paid if the customer stays on the site for 300 seconds?

These zip submits are trash and are designed to run the customer off after getting name and email. Is one network allowing the advertiser to not pay me only on the zip submits and requiring 5 minutes of user time?

Obviously, I am no longer splitting, but the huge disparity in returns really makes me question if I am truly being paid on a zip submit or some other undefined metric.

Anyone else seen this kind of issue?
Click to expand...

Which network was it that had the lower conversions?
 
Reinforces my hate of networks

I think MKrongel nailed the answer. The 300 second thing just did not make sense, but the difference in conversion was too large to explain mathematically.

Copeac has the same offer, and I just signed up for their network. Hopefully it wont take 3-4 days for me to get approved so i can report back.

This is for my personal account, but for the big time stuff, we wont even consider not hosting every aspect of the conversion and then turning the customer over to advertiser after the fact. Too many $$$ that slipped through our hands.

On one product our CR tripled once we removed CJ from the equation!
 
Diorex said:
I think MKrongel nailed the answer. The 300 second thing just did not make sense, but the difference in conversion was too large to explain mathematically.

Copeac has the same offer, and I just signed up for their network. Hopefully it wont take 3-4 days for me to get approved so i can report back.

This is for my personal account, but for the big time stuff, we wont even consider not hosting every aspect of the conversion and then turning the customer over to advertiser after the fact. Too many $$$ that slipped through our hands.

On one product our CR tripled once we removed CJ from the equation!
Click to expand...

Sent you a PM
 
Diorex said:
I think MKrongel nailed the answer. The 300 second thing just did not make sense, but the difference in conversion was too large to explain mathematically.

Copeac has the same offer, and I just signed up for their network. Hopefully it wont take 3-4 days for me to get approved so i can report back.

This is for my personal account, but for the big time stuff, we wont even consider not hosting every aspect of the conversion and then turning the customer over to advertiser after the fact. Too many $$$ that slipped through our hands.

On one product our CR tripled once we removed CJ from the equation!
Click to expand...

Also can you post your experience with our conversions VS the other networks in this thread for everyone? Even if its bad post it.
 
OK - I have a few PM's asking me which network is good and which is bad.

I don't want to call anyone out, especially since I make decent money from them both.

It has reinforced to me that poor ROI is not necessarily a sign of poor conversion, just poor tracking.

This is exactly the reason we try and measure everything and test even the most obscure stuff.

I would however reccomend testing the networks with a simple script for redirects. I adapted the one I use from a post Shoemoney made on his blog. (ask him for support not me lol)
 
I vote that anyone that finds an aff network cheating their members by not making sure they get paid 100% and then refuses to share this info should be banned for life. If your not with us, your against us. :yin-yang:

just kidding
 
Easy Killa

Copeac - thanks for the expedited invite. I will try and do some follow-up once I can get a fresh set of data, might take a few days tho.

To the Lynch Mob - I don't really want to burn a whole network because
of a single issue that might have cost me $150-200. I have several other campaigns there that are doing fine with what I believe to be pretty good conversions. I have contacted them about it and they are looking into it, based upon my data. There are other possible explanantions than they were trying to rip me off and that they are evil. If I thought that was the case, I would be posting the name in a heartbeat.
 
MK your cool as shit im gonna sign up too see what copeac has going. anyway ive seriously been thinking about this issue lately. My conversions definately seem to be down like 8 percent sometimes, ive been lazy but i was going to run the same offers on another net too and see what happened. Now this is really making sense i might be losing a serious amount of money here, dammit.
 
RNG Script?

Diorex: I am sending a lot of traffic to both campaigns through a RNG script - 50% to each offer - Same traffic source said:
Sorry, a little OT:

Where is the traffic coming from. Is this through PPC?

Would you mind elaborating, it sounds interesting :bowdown:

I know little to nothing about scripting... Ya'll would die laughing if you saw my landing pages and watching me typing in all these goddamn keywords and doing everything by hand.
Click to expand...
 
MK, regarding pixel misfires, does that mean that if we don't copy and paste the code EXACTLY (with the div tags and all) we won't be getting paid for those sales because it didn't set a cookie?

Please tell me this isn't the case.
 
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