400,000 Year Old DNA Discovered


That is a piece of evidence pointing towards all life on earth sharing common ancestry. Even if aliens or God were placing things on the planet, it would appear that those things were pulled out of the same soup, so to speak.


So you see, when dogs and grey wolf are considered separate species or sub-species if you will by only 0.2% difference, then when there may be as much as 1% variation between human races

Scherer is raising his high end estimates based on new, never before possible research involving whole gene sequencing. This is primarily or entirely being done on human DNA, not canines. Dogs inherit their genetics in the same type of way and all that, so Scherer might now also believe their DNA to be more unique.

The new research suggests not just racial differences, but that every individual human on the planet is more unique genetically than what was thought.

Below he mentions how they now think that autism genes might vary from family to family more than was believed.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEy2Py2R2BY]New genetic findings expected to accelerate autism testing and development of treatments - YouTube[/ame]


Study turns human genetics on its head - The Globe and Mail



There are probably hundreds of 'sub-species' in the world with far less variation than humans, so either they are misclassified and should be classified as breeds or races or humans are missclassified and should be classified as sub-species. So maybe we should just call the wolf a dog or call the dog a wolf?

"In biology, subspecies, race and breed are equivalent terms. Breed is usually applied to domestic animals; species and subspecies, to wild animals and to plants; and race, to humans."

Dog breed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 


The reason ...

WIA livestream on Dresden :

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"In biology, subspecies, race and breed are equivalent terms. Breed is usually applied to domestic animals; species and subspecies, to wild animals and to plants; and race, to humans."

Aha, but sir, that is sort of admitting that there is much political, kumbaya, mumbo jumbo on this topic. Lewontin and others who for years claimed there was no biological DNA difference between race, when we now know that there are significant differences.

The fact of the matter is that we're not one big happy family but dogs and wolves, some may be more feral than others, with different tempers, intelligence and such.

I am also fully convinved the Moxie account is a disinfo shill operation with 15 liberal arts studens furiously googling away every time there is a non-pc post here.
 
Your knowledge is outdated I think. It is well documented that every race but black has neanderthal DNA or are you saying something else?

I'm saying something else.

All primates have a male ancestor and a female ancestor. And those X and Y chromosomes change extremely slowly with time. They always retain their original markers and get new markers over time.

That's how they can tell that homo erectus, neanderthals and homo sapiens have a common ancestor - there's a common marker in all of them.

But homo sapiens have an additional marker in their mitochondria and Y chromosomes that are not shared by the others, and the first recorded instance is from africa from 190,000 years ago.

If your DNA shows this african marker on both the X chromosome and Y chromosome then both your ancestors were homo sapiens. If one of them was a neanderthal then that african marker would be missing from one chromosome.

A good analogy would be with blood groups. A person with blood group A cannot have a child with blood group O - they can only have a child with A or AB (if the other parent is a B). You can therefore trace parentage back.

In the same way, if you have the homo sapien african marker in your X and Y chromosomes, then you cannot be directly descended from a Neanderthal. You may share some neanderthal characteristics from the common ancestor before the human branch evolved (as we do with homo erectus, chimps and bonobos), but it's impossible that the neanderthal is your ancestor bypassing the african homo sapien (which I think you are arguing).

They've been frantically collecting DNA from all over the world, and every one from a human has the african homo sapien marker.

Out of Africa was only a theory before the genome was sequenced - the DNA evidence points to it being a fact, and the more evidence gathered the greater the statistical certainty.

As for Neanderthals in Europe, they moved there about 350,000 years ago - long before there is any evidence of homo sapiens anywhere on earth (the first homo sapien appears only around 190,000 years ago in Africa). Homo sapien DNA only appears in Europe 40,000 years ago - and we know how they entered from the location of the skeletons - they followed the Danube from it's mouth in the Black Sea right up to the heart of europe and then fanned out.

And as we spread they declined, in the exact same pattern of homo sapiens spreading into China and Neanderthals disappearing there, and Homo Sapiens spreading into the Americas and woolly mammoths and californian bears disappearing and so on. We didn't mate with them, we killed them, like we do all other species who have land that we covet.
 
Aha, but sir, that is sort of admitting that there is much political, kumbaya, mumbo jumbo on this topic. Lewontin and others who for years claimed there was no biological DNA difference between race, when we now know that there are significant differences.

He never said there were no differences. Below is from an interview he did :

"For almost every gene we know, either everybody in the world has the same form of the gene, in which case all human beings are the same, or if there's variation, the frequencies of the different variants are the same relatively speaking, close to the same, in Africans, Asians, North Americans, Austro-Asians, and so on. And only about - well, I estimated 7% of all of human genetic variation could be ascribed to differences between groups, between major races."


Below is a sentence from his major paper on the topic :

"Human racial classification is of no social value and is positively destructive of social and human relations."

That would clearly fall under the category of "personal opinion", and according to wikipedia he admits that his political views have effected his scientific work.

So it's not exactly top secret information that at least some scientists want to avoid labeling things a certain way because of "political, kumbaya, mumbo jumbo" reasons.


The fact of the matter is that we're not one big happy family but dogs and wolves, some may be more feral than others, with different tempers, intelligence and such.

There are differences between males and females, in some ways more than between races, but most people don't spend too much time worrying about that.


I am also fully convinved the Moxie account is a disinfo shill operation with 15 liberal arts studens furiously googling away every time there is a non-pc post here.

Yeah, pointing out stuff from Biology 101 and such is a sure sign of a complicated operation. Ignore the fact that I've made hundreds of "non-pc" posts and have never started a political or kumbaya thread on here.
 
In the same way, if you have the homo sapien african marker in your X and Y chromosomes, then you cannot be directly descended from a Neanderthal. You may share some neanderthal characteristics from the common ancestor before the human branch evolved (as we do with homo erectus, chimps and bonobos), but it's impossible that the neanderthal is your ancestor bypassing the african homo sapien (which I think you are arguing).

They've been frantically collecting DNA from all over the world, and every one from a human has the african homo sapien marker.

If I'm understanding what you're saying correctly:

People have a common marker up to that point, which was first found in one of our ancestors in a region of Africa. Meaning that we share a common ancestor who lived in Africa.

Past that, are you saying Humans did not interbreed with other sub-species[after the dispersal] or are you saying that the interbreeding didn't happen before the marker was 'inserted' otherwise we'd have humans without the marker?

" You may share some neanderthal characteristics from the common ancestor before the human branch evolved (as we do with homo erectus, chimps and bonobos), but it's impossible that the neanderthal is your ancestor bypassing the african homo sapien (which I think you are arguing)."

Need to know if this is saying that your/his/my ancestors all merge to that point[as indicated by the marker] and therefore there is no branch of humanity that skipped this person and developed out of another sub-species.

Or

Are you saying that Humans did not mate with Neanderthalls and other sub-species at all/in a significant way before or after the long march out of Africa?
 
I expect humans then and now have tried to mate with whatever they can get their hands on.
 
Teatree knows what's up!

go get your DNA tested, they will show you where you came from in Africa, where your people migrated to and how you ended up where you are at.

It's pretty damn cool. My brother did it and since we have the same father, my path is exactly the same as his because of the XY chromosome.

It's pretty fascinating to see the markers and path your ancestors took out of Africa!
 
There's an affiliate program for 23andme.com, might be a good opp.

The cock suckers at the FDA shut them down

Edit, nevermind, they shut down the health related stuff:

"Welcome to 23andMe.

At this time, we have suspended our health-related genetic tests to comply with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration’s directive to discontinue new consumer access during our regulatory review process.

We are continuing to provide you with both ancestry-related genetic tests and raw genetic data, without 23andMe’s interpretation.

If you are an existing customer please click the button below and then go to the health page for additional information. If you are a customer who purchased before November 22, 2013, you will still have access to your health-related results.

We remain firmly committed to fulfilling our long-term mission to help people everywhere have access to their own genetic data and have the ability to use that information to improve their lives.

Upon entering the site, please confirm you understand the new changes in our services."
 
If I'm understanding what you're saying correctly:

People have a common marker up to that point, which was first found in one of our ancestors in a region of Africa. Meaning that we share a common ancestor who lived in Africa.

Past that, are you saying Humans did not interbreed with other sub-species[after the dispersal] or are you saying that the interbreeding didn't happen before the marker was 'inserted' otherwise we'd have humans without the marker?

" You may share some neanderthal characteristics from the common ancestor before the human branch evolved (as we do with homo erectus, chimps and bonobos), but it's impossible that the neanderthal is your ancestor bypassing the african homo sapien (which I think you are arguing)."

Need to know if this is saying that your/his/my ancestors all merge to that point[as indicated by the marker] and therefore there is no branch of humanity that skipped this person and developed out of another sub-species.

Or

Are you saying that Humans did not mate with Neanderthalls and other sub-species at all/in a significant way before or after the long march out of Africa?


There is no branch of humans who don't have the L1 marker (the marker at position 4312 of the mitochondria) - they've been testing all over the world and haven't found a single one. So there are no people who have skipped the original human "eve" from africa.

And Neanderthals don't have that marker - remember they evolved and left Africa 350,000 years ago, a full 160,000 years before the first human appears - our species is only 190,000 years old. And they would have been continuing to diverge from us during the whole of that time.

This about the following simple experiment. Say you meet a neanderthal woman and fancy her and have a baby with her. The mitochondria of her children will come from her, and will not have that L1 marker. And if her daughters had children, they'd pass on mitochondria without that marker too, and so on down time.

So if humans and neanderthals mated there'd be some people without that marker - but they haven't been found yet. You can do a similar experiment with the Y chromosome and a Neanderthal man.

The other thing is how Neanderthals survived 300,000 years in Europe and Asia through some pretty dramatic climate changes - but got wiped out very quickly in both regions when humans encroached in their areas. People are reluctant to believe we hurt such a closely related homonoid - but we must have done something. Species don't just disappear without reason.

The whole origins of humans thing may seem confusing because there are differences between human races - but that's primarily down to epigenetics (tags on our genes that switch on and off depending on environment, climate, quality and quantity of food).

We're continuing to evolve through epigenetics right now mostly in minor ways, though there's some horrible evidence coming out that test-tube babies have a statistically higher incidence of genes turning off leading to hideous diseases because the sperm and egg are interpreting the petridish as a hostile environment (as compared to the safety of the womb).

And then of course natural selection plays a part too - some people survive and some people don't, sometimes through environmental bad luck, but often through choices and decisions and their brains or lack of them.

Here's an example: The Greenland Norse died out completely but the Greenland Innuit didn't due to differing practices in food gathering (for some unknown reason the Greenland Norse refused to fish despite being surrounded by the richest fishing waters in the world). But now the Greenland Innuit are dying - because they primarily eat ocean fish, they're being poisoned by all the heavy metals that are being dumped in the seas, whereas those of us eating regulated food grown on land are safe. They're in a quandry, they can't grow anything on Greenland because the land is too poor and cold and won't support farming (the reason the Norse died), and there's no industry they can set up to enable them to earn to buy food from elsewhere, without damaging the ice sheet - so should they abandon Greenland in order to change their diet? Where would they go?

The whole evolution thing is fascinating. We're essentially all the descendants of successful survivors and some of that success is down to usurping other species like the Neanderthals and chasing them away from the best hunting and farming grounds.
 
There is no branch of humans who don't have the L1 marker (the marker at position 4312 of the mitochondria) - they've been testing all over the world and haven't found a single one. So there are no people who have skipped the original human "eve" from africa.

And Neanderthals don't have that marker - remember they evolved and left Africa 350,000 years ago, a full 160,000 years before the first human appears - our species is only 190,000 years old. And they would have been continuing to diverge from us during the whole of that time.

This about the following simple experiment. Say you meet a neanderthal woman and fancy her and have a baby with her. The mitochondria of her children will come from her, and will not have that L1 marker. And if her daughters had children, they'd pass on mitochondria without that marker too, and so on down time.

So if humans and neanderthals mated there'd be some people without that marker - but they haven't been found yet. You can do a similar experiment with the Y chromosome and a Neanderthal man.

The other thing is how Neanderthals survived 300,000 years in Europe and Asia through some pretty dramatic climate changes - but got wiped out very quickly in both regions when humans encroached in their areas. People are reluctant to believe we hurt such a closely related homonoid - but we must have done something. Species don't just disappear without reason.

The whole origins of humans thing may seem confusing because there are differences between human races - but that's primarily down to epigenetics (tags on our genes that switch on and off depending on environment, climate, quality and quantity of food).

We're continuing to evolve through epigenetics right now mostly in minor ways, though there's some horrible evidence coming out that test-tube babies have a statistically higher incidence of genes turning off leading to hideous diseases because the sperm and egg are interpreting the petridish as a hostile environment (as compared to the safety of the womb).

And then of course natural selection plays a part too - some people survive and some people don't, sometimes through environmental bad luck, but often through choices and decisions and their brains or lack of them.

Here's an example: The Greenland Norse died out completely but the Greenland Innuit didn't due to differing practices in food gathering (for some unknown reason the Greenland Norse refused to fish despite being surrounded by the richest fishing waters in the world). But now the Greenland Innuit are dying - because they primarily eat ocean fish, they're being poisoned by all the heavy metals that are being dumped in the seas, whereas those of us eating regulated food grown on land are safe. They're in a quandry, they can't grow anything on Greenland because the land is too poor and cold and won't support farming (the reason the Norse died) - so should they abandon Greenland in order to change their diet? Where would they go?

The whole evolution thing is fascinating. We're essentially all the descendants of successful survivors and some of that success is down to usurping other species like the Neanderthals and chasing them away from the best hunting and farming grounds.

It certainly is fascinating, thanks for the well thought out reply.
 
P.S. Here's a cracking documentary on epigenetics. If you have children, make sure they're they're not eating crap in the period just before and during puberty because that's the period that affects the descendants:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFGNnwYYefM]The Ghost In Your Genes - BBC Documentary - YouTube[/ame]
 
The cock suckers at the FDA shut them down

Edit, nevermind, they shut down the health related stuff:

Are you white than this american president?

Did your mother sleep with Jamaal?

There are many good angles here, I wonder if white supremacist sites offer advertising.
 
This about the following simple experiment. Say you meet a neanderthal woman and fancy her and have a baby with her. The mitochondria of her children will come from her, and will not have that L1 marker. And if her daughters had children, they'd pass on mitochondria without that marker too, and so on down time.

"the available data leads to the hypothesis that only male Neanderthals were able to mate with female humans. If Haldane’s Law applied to the progeny of Neanderthals and humans, then female hybrids would survive, but male hybrids would be absent, rare, or sterile. Interbreeding between male Neanderthals and female humans, as the only possible scenario, accounts for the presence of Neanderthal nuclear DNA, the scarcity of Neanderthal Y-linked genes, and the lack of mitochondrial DNA in modern human populations."

Hypothesis Journal » Neanderthal-human Hybrids