Any videographers/editors here?

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schockergd

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Dec 11, 2008
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Circleville Ohio
As I've said here before, I've been working on a new business for the past year and I'm finally at a point that I can implement phase two of the project.

Phase one involved me starting up a brand new business (Rental Real Estate) and getting it profitable. So far it's been going very well and I *should* be clearing a good deal of income next year if there aren't any major disasters in my life that take place. I've got a decent bit of capital available, in reserve, and plenty of equity in properties as of this second.

So, the second phase as I've mentioned is to start a 'DIY real estate empire' type of website. It would be like those 'guru' products (Charleton Sheets or such) with the exception that it's going to be very detailed, and show what really happens when you run a business like this - the every day successes and failures.

Like most good products, there's going to be multiple levels of upsells and a recurring subscription involved in the product. Some guys I've talked to are doing recurring billing models with ludicrous numbers, and they're entirely text based/articles in terms of format. So I figure the video angle is going to be pretty cool about it.

The problem is though - I can't pay for a film crew to shoot it. I can pay for a good editor (Already have a few that are going to do the editing, and have been involved in TV production before). The concern I have is I just don't have the research/data available to determine what people are looking for. I've had plenty tell me they'd pay if I shot the whole thing with a cameraphone, but I want to make it a quality product. A good friend of mine shoots short clips designed for TV commercials for real estate developments. His entire equipment budget was pretty minimal ($3k-$5k) but then he knows how to shoot video, I can't say that I do.

So, my question is, would a individual be able to read enough articles/videos/various types of how-to videos on shooting video to make such a production of reasonable quality, or am I going to have to outsource everything?
 


An individual can learn anything if they put their mind to it. I'm sure you can figure it out, it's not rocket science.

Part of the problem is technical and part is artistic. The technical stuff should be reasonably easy to figure out, whereas the artistic part may or may not be natural to you but can be learned.

You just have to think, if it takes you, say, $5-10k to equip yourself and learn what you need to, how much videographer outsourcing is that worth? There might be some overlap though, in the time it takes you to become proficient, you might need to hire someone to help. Maybe you can work out some sort of apprenticeship with them as part of the deal?
 
Fatbat said:
An individual can learn anything if they put their mind to it. I'm sure you can figure it out, it's not rocket science.

Part of the problem is technical and part is artistic. The technical stuff should be reasonably easy to figure out, whereas the artistic part may or may not be natural to you but can be learned.

You just have to think, if it takes you, say, $5-10k to equip yourself and learn what you need to, how much videographer outsourcing is that worth? There might be some overlap though, in the time it takes you to become proficient, you might need to hire someone to help. Maybe you can work out some sort of apprenticeship with them as part of the deal?
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Good idea, will have to put some feelers out there, unfortunately (but it's beneficial for the business itself) is that I live in area where most people skilled in this stuff don't live in my town. I know several videographers and they're all absolutely terrible.
 
I've done some videography on my own and it turned out pretty well. I shot on a $300 camcorder with a booster mic and edited in Vegas Pro. Went from knowing nothing to decent quality in a week.

There's definitely a learning curve but it's not that hard to make quality videos these days. Fatbat said it, it's half tech and half artistic. For your purposes it sounds like the artistic part won't be as important.

If you do it yourself I recommend dedicating some time to just learning how to use the camera and editing software with no intention of creating a working product while you practice. Take some footage, edit it, see how it comes out, repeat a few times until you get the hang of it. A good message goes a long way and if you're selling quality information then you have a little wiggle room in quality imo.

One thing that might help is storyboarding. It might sound like a waste of time but I ended up writing out an outline of the videos and sketching out some of the scenes I wanted to shoot and that helped me stay on point.

Also spend good money on a tripod. They're way more important than you might first think.

Another thing to consider is doing some yourself and outsourcing others. I've seen video courses where some videos were obviously shot/produced by different people for whatever reasons and it didn't detract from the product.
 
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I will absolutely outsource work. I just don't know if it will be editing, editing and color grading, less, more or what.

You're right about storyboarding, I figured that I should likely work on my storyboarding process now, so when I get the camera I'll be better prepared.

I'll shoot PLENTY of video that doesn't deal with the project. One of my ideas to get better familiarized with the process was to offer to shoot video for family/church events for free for people, and do all the editing/color grading myself. In these situations there's no expectation as I'd be doing it for free, but then I can get immediate feedback from people about the quality. I'd be shooting with equipment significantly better than what most of the locals are doing.

I've got a pretty nice all-metal tripod that was made in the 60s. In addition to that I believe a good deal of the video I will be shooting will be with a flycam.
 
schockergd said:
I will absolutely outsource work. I just don't know if it will be editing, editing and color grading, less, more or what.

You're right about storyboarding, I figured that I should likely work on my storyboarding process now, so when I get the camera I'll be better prepared.

I'll shoot PLENTY of video that doesn't deal with the project. One of my ideas to get better familiarized with the process was to offer to shoot video for family/church events for free for people, and do all the editing/color grading myself. In these situations there's no expectation as I'd be doing it for free, but then I can get immediate feedback from people about the quality. I'd be shooting with equipment significantly better than what most of the locals are doing.

I've got a pretty nice all-metal tripod that was made in the 60s. In addition to that I believe a good deal of the video I will be shooting will be with a flycam.
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Is that the best use of your time?

What specifically do you need to accomplish? Video training can be (in a lot of cases) much more effective doing a Powerpoint presentation and recording it with Camtasia (or similar).

If you want to show off specific problems, like what to look for in a rental property, do it guerilla style at first. Just use an inexpensive camera (or cell phone).

Get the product to the point where you can viably sell it. Prove you can sell it, and then reinvest to make 2.0 with better quality videos if needed.

I think it'd be a lot smarter to get the funnel and conversion process down and proven before shelling out a ton on the video quality unless it's absolutely necessary.
 
I agree, right now we're looking at $3k or so for the video equipment.

The site shouldn't be a significant amount ,most of the money will be spent on advertising.
 
I created a reality show that got millions of views without ever knowing anything about videography really. Filmed it and edited it.

Just jump in and play around with everything and you'll pick it up.
 
There are a lot of great resources on video online. That's how my guys all learned and now we get paid a lot of money to create videos. (Our latest had a $40k budget, not bad for a few guys with no formal training)

I think though that scott said it best. I would go with a pretty cheap version just to get the information out there and prove you can sell it. At that point, then invest in the higher quality production value.
 
Screw a budget, a lot of people mess that up. Thinking about money instead of actual equipment that was used to make great shit in the past. I'll give you an example.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UePtoxDhJSw]Wiz Khalifa - Black And Yellow [Official Music Video] - YouTube[/ame]

This video was shot with a Canon 550d. Or t2i. Whatever they call it. You can get the camera body without lenses for around $400-500.

After that get lenses for it. Ebay is your friend for all this. Look up 50mm 1.8 (sharp, great for low light and will give you a nice bokeh effect - $30), 18-55 (kit lens, more versatility - $100) and even sigma 10-20 if you're looking for a real wide angle.

A memory card will probably be included with the camera body, but even if not - it's still cheap so make sure you get a class 10 for shooting HD.

As far as editing, I've found that sony vegas works best for this. For the video above they used a plugin called "magic bullet looks" which is also available for sony vegas and used to give it that hollywood look. Plenty of tutorials on youtube for this. Video4YouTube is a great extension for sony vegas that helps with quality rendering (720p, 1080p).

And one last thing to consider is that you might need something to keep the dslr stable, so two options: Tripod (cheaper and static) or something like flycam nano that you can use to stabilize moving footage.
 
I've got a few Nikon DSLR lenses now (35mm/1.4f, 50mm 1.8f, 18mm-50mm/2.6f). I guess I could go with one of their higher end ones.

The only issue I've had is lighting, this is all architectural type shots, which of course will require a wide lens, but also may have lighting issues.

I'll be using a flycam most likely. I'm going to look into a few DSLRs now and see what's out there.
 
For video, canon dslr's outshine nikons in every way. I know because I've used both extensively.. Also panasonic gh2/gh3 are amazing. But if you're really leaning towards nikon then I guess it would do the job as long as you don't expect red one comparable video quality.
 
For better or worse I've got a 5200 on the way, and will get a flycam nano as well today.

I've got a few lenses for it already. So hopefully things won't look too terrible.

Now it's on to decide what to do about software.
 
schockergd said:
Good idea, will have to put some feelers out there, unfortunately (but it's beneficial for the business itself) is that I live in area where most people skilled in this stuff don't live in my town. I know several videographers and they're all absolutely terrible.
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Even if they are not the greatest, everyone still has something to share even if it's practices to avoid. It's a place to start - I've seen a few online courses as well, and if you check out video award websites and watch the videos that have won awards - make notes on techniques and styles - that will help you develop your own style.
 
schockergd said:
I've got a few lenses for it already. So hopefully things won't look too terrible.

Now it's on to decide what to do about software.
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Seriously, go for sony vegas and get the magic bullet plugin for efficiency. You'll never need anything else. Adobe premiere is fine but takes a lot to learn. Consider final cut if you're on mac too. You're on the right track anyway man, congrats on getting started!
 
If you pickup a Cannon DSLR toss Magic Lantern | Home on it. I went to help a client shoot a trailer and they used it on a pair of 6d's (I think that's what they were) to backup a RED last month.

Unlocks a ton of options.
 
schockergd said:
For better or worse I've got a 5200 on the way, and will get a flycam nano as well today.

I've got a few lenses for it already. So hopefully things won't look too terrible.

Now it's on to decide what to do about software.
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Put your money in the "glass". If you already have a good dslr you are half way there. Maybe look for some "vintage" nikon or zeiss "prime" lenses on ebay or craigslist. With the video work you're going to be doing manual focus so the older primes will give you superior quality over the cheap low end stuff of today. Seriously though the glass is everything.

Do you use photoshop? If so take a look at Adobe Premier and After Effects for the editing. Learn them and learn them well.
 
Haven't used photoshop alot, but it's something I know I can learn (Sadly I've been using GIMP for 6+ years due to being too cheap to buy PS).

I've got a few Nikon prime lenses already and a few zoom lenses already. Have a 35/1.8 and a 18-55/2.8 kit lens. Sort of thought about a Tokina 11-16mm for some of the big interior shots.

Looking at magic bullet it looks very, very nice. I'll have to get it.
 
schockergd said:
Haven't used photoshop alot, but it's something I know I can learn (Sadly I've been using GIMP for 6+ years due to being too cheap to buy PS).

I've got a few Nikon prime lenses already and a few zoom lenses already. Have a 35/1.8 and a 18-55/2.8 kit lens. Sort of thought about a Tokina 11-16mm for some of the big interior shots.

Looking at magic bullet it looks very, very nice. I'll have to get it.
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or did you mean this?
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BTW all spending a $100 or $200 on lenses is not my idea of good glass. Dont stick another nickle in a camera (i don't really know what you have im a canon shooter), assuming it's capable of putting high quality video out.

If you're going to spend any money on gear, spend it on the lenses. If you expect this to put food on your table, you need good glass. Pretty much any lens that you pay less than $600 or more realistically <$1000 is going to be subpar.

If you go and buy another camera you will still be putting shit glass on it. Do some research, and figure out what the best lens is for your application, and get that one.

If the budget doesn't allow it try renting them. Borrow Lens or Lens Rental can go along way to perfecting your work.

Seriously though get some glass. Forget about the gear.
 
This is what I mean by magic bullet.

Red Giant - Products - Magic Bullet Looks 2.1




As far as glass goes, I'm well aware of the price range/qualities that are out there. I would LOVE to get a nikkor 18/1.4f lens, or a box of them for that matter. However at this stage it's not going to have a discernible effect *if* I can do a decent job of editing. Not that a faster lens won't be a good thing for the entire project. The main thing is I have owned $400-$800 lenses in the past and while they were good, it was like alot of things, the higher you go pricewise, the smaller increase in performance you get per dollar spent.

So, at this stage I'm only looking for a few more lenses (I did see a pretty cool 11-16mm 2.8f Tokina that I'm wanting). However I don't know if it'll be money well spent if i go the 18/28/35/50 1.4f route that a good deal of higher end guys go.
 
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