Ariz. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in critical condition after Tucson shooting; 6 dead...

Lets be honest, as a Christian, the premise of the religion isn't that Jesus saves good people, he saves sinful people. The bible tells us that no one is good on their own merit... not even one. We've had our faults, but lets not act like there are "good people" out there either who have never done anything wrong.

Most people like to refer to the Crusades, but we know now that the bible has been translated from Latin (it was only a handful of people who had the ability to read it during the time of the Crusades and it was a very corrupt "church" that supported such things). We can read it for ourselves that the Crusades were never biblical.
 


85VicWagonGuy said:
2) how many tens of millions OF THEIR OWN CITIZENS have Christians killed vs. atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pot?

Careful how you sling the anti-Christian mop.
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How in the hell did you, no matter how bible-thumping you may be, take offense at dchuk's defense of his own (lack of) religion?

He said nothing bad at all about christianity in this thread, only that "people out there" (seems mostly like he's talking about the media to me) would behave differently if your religion were fingered instead of his.

This is nothing but fact; christians have been going nuts and shooting people off the rooftops for ages but usually this is what ppl imagine when confronted with an "Atheist Extremist:"

militancy.jpg

:xmas-smiley-016:
 
Having lived on the Northwest side of Tucson for more than 15 years, I'm surprised I haven't seen more of this from some of the D-bags that reside here. I'm not surprised at how quickly some of these political assholes are moving in like vultures over a carcass to push their agenda and ride the political gravy train.

Fuck the politics in all of this. An innocent 9 year old girl was murdered(not to mention all the other victims) by some psycho piece of shit. It is a sad day when that fact is relegated to the background and a political agenda is pushed to the forefront. Fucking media whores.
 
After watching this weekend's events in horror, I felt compelled to put a few feelings on paper (or email, rather). For those of you who weren't able to watch all the updates unfold from Tucson, I'd like to share today's New York Times article, the most thorough account I've read so far. Truly, an assassination -- even an attempted one -- is not far in size or nightmarish spectacle from the detonation of a nuclear bomb in the American imagination.

It is on the note of this weekend's events that I would like to share this Fox News article: the story of Tucson Sheriff Clarence Dupnik's foray into a subject that most other Americans I know have only discussed over drinks or in hushed tones. Some critics lampooned the sheriff for whitewashing an attempted assassination on a member of Congress with politics. And after listening to account after account of the suspect's troubled history, I am inclined to agree: the news conference he held on Saturday may not have been the best place to speculate on the role that hyperpartisanship played in a series of murders still clouded in uncertainty.

Still, I'd like to ask a question: How telling is it that so many Americans initially wondered (and I'm paraphrasing a jumble of statements I heard from friends), "God, I hope this wasn't a partisan attack"?

I felt the sheriff's remarks about "vitriolic rhetoric" and efforts by radio and television personalities to "inflame the public 24 hours a day, seven days a week" captured the essence of the "permanent campaign" that so many of us live in every election. I applaud his courage in highlighting the gross alterna-reality that makes Americans with opposing viewpoints sound more like the wolfman or a host of zombies, come to prey on our flesh at night or turn us into something like them. Like "them."

Some of you may scoff at that statement, but how many us recall the commercials in the last election -- one of a "RINO" in sheep's clothing with red eyes? Or what about the over-the-top rhetoric spewed forth like toxic chemicals by so many candidates, including some that made vague references to "Second Amendment rights" if the election was lost and "reload[ing]" on opponents?

I'm in agreement with Sheriff Dupnik. That's not America. Not the America I know. Not the idea, not the ideals, not the people. And like the nature of some of the toxins that flow down the Mississippi and into the Gulf of Mexico, all that rhetoric, those images, stay where they are; they pollute the American imagination and cast a haze of radioactivity over us -- not unlike the affer-effects of a nuclear bomb. So is it so far from a person who suffers from distorted thinking to imbibe the toxins and, like some drug-induced patient, take it upon himself to realize the rhetoric someone else planted?

And it's not just the politicians or the radio hosts or television personalities. It's us. I was recently enjoying a conversation with someone I know and deeply respect about national affairs. When I said I was a news junkie, he affirmed his own love of the 24/7 news cycle and said, "But I don't read The New York Times. They are our enemies." Allow me to remind you that this is someone I greatly respect, not without reason. So, curious, I asked a few questions about the news cycles that he follows, and he relayed a story to me about how a veteran turned off CNN in a public venue, because, and I quote, "we don't watch that [expletive] here."

My thoughts are, if that's what he thinks of other news organizations -- what does this otherwise good person think of people with opposing political viewpoints? And I've met so many countless others, in my personal life as much as on the campaign trail, who would readily agree with this person. I'm in agreement with Sheriff Dupnik: just as freedom isn't free, free speech is not without its consequences. We lose America -- the idea and the ideals -- when we giddily or thoughtlessly dismiss that understanding. It wasn't too long ago, after all, that a little-known country in East Africa devolved into bloodletting genocide over a few words from a radio host.

We have serious problems in this country. We can disagree about the solutions, but let's remind ourselves that we're Americans first.

Feel free to respond. I hope that I'm not the only person out there who thinks that we need to ratchet down the rhetoric.
 
Anchor_Services said:
We have serious problems in this country. We can disagree about the solutions, but let's remind ourselves that we're Americans first.

Feel free to respond. I hope that I'm not the only person out there who thinks that we need to ratchet down the rhetoric.
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We just elected ourselves the first African-American president and all of the major news outlets are on the other side of the fence. I for one think under the circumstances the bloodshed over partism is rather low.

I wonder, did you follow what's been going down between the Red shirts and the Yellow shirts in Thailand the last few years?

Thailand is a lot like a micro version of the US, where things happen at a faster pace. The reds there are our conservatives, mostly poor country bumpkins who mostly own guns and hate the 'spoiled' city-dwelling Yellows.

They've been escalating towards a civil war for many years now & last summer they kinda had one... All over what we consider as partisanship.

My own feelings on the matter is that if you have to large groups of people that don't like each other, it's best to split them up, let them go.

Abe should have said; You sorry bitches want to succeed? Crap. We'll miss your money but since you stink to high heaven I grant your succession. ...And take Arkansas with you!" ;)

That would have solved a huge, ongoing problem and saved tens of thousands of lives.

The same with Thailand; They should make the city of Bangkok a separate nation from the rest of the country... I would guess that is exactly what happened to Hong Kong and Macau. (With the Brits elevating the elitists, natch.)

For the US today, however, it's no longer easy to separate us by geography. The east and west coasts both equally seem to be filled with Libs and the Deep South isn't the only place breeding Cons... So it would be an extremely bloody, difficult breakup if it somehow came to it.

Hard times are ahead with China's coming to power... We really need all the unity we can get but the media seems dead-set here on undoing just that.
 
Well we're now finding out that the LEFT wing blog site Daily Kos put out a hit piece on the congress woman, just 2 days before the shooting. The title of the piece? - "My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!" -

Of course they've scrubbed it from their site, but not before screenshots could be taken -

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It was the Left that actually hated her, because she wasn't liberal enough. And I'm willing to bet that the shooter - crazy as he is - had more in common w/ the writer of the above article than he did w/ anyone on the right. Especially since we're also hearing that he was at other events of hers.

But leave it to liberals to jump to conclusions before the facts come out. To me the shit they're doing right now is much more dangerous than what they're falsely accusing conservatives of doing.
 
It... is... coming.

After Arizona, The Gun Control Debate Resurfaces - Swampland - TIME.com

McCarthy Presses Gun Control, Ban on Tucson Ammo With Public Support Weak - Bloomberg

Sarah Brady to Obama: Lead on gun control - CNN.com


To those who will argue, "who needs clips that big anyway?", trust me. It will not stop with these clips. From here:

Seizing on the shooting in Arizona that killed six and critically injured Representative Gabrielle Giffords, Representative Carolyn McCarthy of New York, a long-time gun control advocate, said Tuesday she would introduce a bill next week that would ban high-capacity ammunition magazines. The bill would be carried in the Senate by Senator Frank Lautenberg.

The bill would limit such magazines to 10-round-maximums
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