Athiesm vs Judaism

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riddarhusetgal said:
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Completely off topic, but I always see left at first. Forcing yourself to make it switch is a great brain exercise.
 


Hell if that ain't true!! Right now she is turning toward the right for me - it took about 1 week of staring at thing for about 15 mins a day before the first time it changed! It was a really eye-opening exercise.....
The point I was trying to make though is that if someone hadn't have pointed it out to me, THERE'S NO WAY I WOULD HAVE EVER THOUGHT SOMEONE WAS SEEING A WOMAN TURNING TO THE LEFT....
 
That said, if I were an atheist I would ask myself, outside of the far right nuts in the world, how is it that hundreds of millions (probably billions) of "normal", well informed, etc, etc individuals all are having the same direct experience.
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Religiosity and the "personal experience" of a divine being are very well understood physiological occurrences. It's all about the genes and the biochemical factory we call a body. I won't do the whole dissertation thing here, but take a look at Daniel Dennet if you're curious about the subject.

A quickie version:

We are genetically programmed pattern seekers and capable of imagining things so vividly that our body systems (endocrinal, hormonal, etc) react to purely imaginary "visions" with physical manifestations like elevated blood pressure, dilated pupils, adrenal response etc. We are all human, we all have these same basic systems and chemical chains, we all look for patterns to help us survive and have the same primitive level physical reactions to finding "patterns" in things. On the savanah, being the first to recognize the motion in the tall grass that might be a lion kept us alive longer so we could spread our "lion seeing" genes around a bit more. Fortunately, it's not ALWAYS a lion, but we have to have the reaction to get our bodies ready to run every time, even when it's not a lion, just so we don't get eaten.

It helped us flourish and thrive. Unfortunately it's also the root of the causal imaginative nonsense we typically call supersition/mysticism/religious experience.

Billions of people (like all of them) have an appendix. That doesn't make it useful or necessary. Religion is just a chemical reaction. Continuing to believe that it's a great sky-father is also standard human behavior: it's easier to avoid change than to face the "shame" of family ridicule, or even national ridicule since the Christofascists have basically taken over the country. So most people won't bother. It's less uncomfortable for them to keep fooling themselves into believing than it is to change... so they don't.
 
She's spinning to the right. Don't use any of your emperors new clothes mojo and try to tell me different.

edit: my husband just said she's spinning to the left. :-/
 
If God excists, those in faith can laugh at us atheists after we are dead and rotting in hell.

If the God doesn't excist, we atheist can't laugh at those who had the faith, so we must express our opinion now.

This is the truth.
 
I believe in God as such I've said it a billion times...

I don't believe in hell. It's a stupid concept not alligned with goodness.

How about this: you atheists try to enjoy life as much as possible and try to do the right thing when you can - make as much money as you can so that you can enjoy the good things of life, employ people and hopefully give some back to those who weren't as fortunate as you.

*If* there is a god, you'll go to heaven anyway because a "reasonable" God would be more concerned with what someone does and not what they "say"...

There are plenty of atheists in the world who haven't hurt a soul and are wonderful good people....

There are plenty of church-attending "believers" who are evil fucks who really should be rotting in "hell" (if there was one) and if I had my way the would.....

Those of us who believe can continue doing the same thing - having fun in life, making money (for ourselves and to the benefit of others). We can also enjoy the benefits of developing ourselves spiritually - what does it feel like?
Take the best damn orgasm you have ever had, combine it with the best party you've ever went to, throw in the best party of your life and multiply it times (ten).....this is what the mystics call "the moment that lasts for ever"....

If the believers are wrong, no big deal because we still had fun in life even if there is no "heaven". If the atheists are wrong, good for them 'cause the ones who basically led a good life will enjoy heaven anyway.....


Lastly, how about everyone accepting the fact that people should be entitled to live their lives the way they want to, believe what they want to and as stated above, just because someone is looking at the exact same thing and sees something different, doesn't mean they're "deluding themselves" - everybody gets to win...

Lastly, I talked to God before I wrote this and he told me to tell you to go forth and MAKE MONIES ONLINE ;) -
 
LosKas said:
If God excists, those in faith can laugh at us atheists after we are dead and rotting in hell.

If the God doesn't excist, we atheist can't laugh at those who had the faith, so we must express our opinion now.

This is the truth.
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There is a common theme between religions. All major religions point to truth.

"Truth is very elusive and hard to find" - Hindu scripture
"I'm still searching for the truth" - Buddha
"I point to the truth" - Muhammad
"I am the truth" - Jesus
 
LosKas said:
If God excists, those in faith can laugh at us atheists after we are dead and rotting in hell.

If the God doesn't excist, we atheist can't laugh at those who had the faith, so we must express our opinion now.

This is the truth.
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QFT.
 
ckclark121 said:
There is a common theme between religions. All major religions point to truth.

"Truth is very elusive and hard to find" - Hindu scripture
"I'm still searching for the truth" - Buddha
"I point to the truth" - Muhammad
"I am the truth" - Jesus
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"You can't handle the Truth." - Jack
 
@ ckclark121 - "amen" to that. Truth is truth...

"Truth" is an atheist that donates money to charity out of the goodness of their heart and not because they feel like they have to appease a vengeful, autocrat "God"....

"Truth" is when a believer does the same thing - albeit for a different set of reasons...

The "Truth" is the same thing, yesterday, today and forever - water wets it not, fire burns it not, wind blows it not away....

On a different note, I always feel like I've gained something when I can discuss ideas in an open minded fashion with people who see the world differently than I do

It's a rare person who can get along with someone who have views that are fundementally at odds with what they believe.

That's why I though the little prayer that Obama gave where he talked about "Christians, Muslims, Jews and NonBelievers"

He is the kind of religious guy who is more in line with me and my circle of friends. From what I heard his mother was an agnostic/atheist and is grandparents weren't very religious at all....
I personally think people like that who "come" into religion are alot healthier - they haven't had someone force them to believe something, they've been able to draw their own conclusion without all of this "you're going to hell" bullshit....




 
RDion12 said:
It's actually the other way around. Theists are the ones who condemn atheists. The latter got no choice, but to fight back.
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I agree. Just look at those Roman Catholic people who are saying that those who don't believe that God exists will got to hell.
 
So why Judaism, specifically?
This thread's pretty much just been a bog standard religion / no religion so far.

I mean, in so far as I can tell, there doesn't seem to be a big push to get people to believe in Yaweh... In fact, as I recall, jews actively discourage people from signing up by making it pretty much a "you sign up as ultra-orthodox, or we ain't lettin you in da GLT club" (G is for Gefilte)
 
“ I was driving home early Sunday morning through Bakersfield, Listening to gospel music on the colored radio station, And the preacher said 'You know, you always have the Lord by your side', And I was so pleased to be informed of this, That I ran 20 red lights in His honor, Thank you Jesus, thank you Lord ”

"Far Away Eyes" is the sixth track from the Rolling Stones' 1978 album Some Girls.
 
I don't really believe in religion but at the same time I don't hate anyone who believes. But I do have fucking problem with people who try to shove it down my throat -- especially because I have found from experience that people who flaunt their religion are usually the biggest hypocrites.

Actually, I and a friend of mine were having a discussion about religions as we actually found out that most Indian religions (hinduism, sikhism etc.) were very different from Christianity or Islam. Hindus don't have one god. Even we Sikhs have no god and believe in the Holy Book (which doesn't fucking tell you to not wear a condom or hate homosexuals or anyone else -- it is just a collection of common-sense wisdom of life).

Here's one pretty interesting (but a rather long-ass) message that a friend of mine sent about Hinduism. Might of some interest to someone out there. =)

Four years ago, I was flying from JFK NY Airport to SFO to attend a meeting at Monterey , CA. An American girl was sitting on the right side, near window seat. It indeed was a long journey - it would take nearly seven hours.

I was surprised to see the young girl reading a Bible unusual of young Americans. After some time she smiled and we had few acquaintances talk.I told her that I am from India.

Then suddenly the girl asked: 'What's your faith?' 'What?' I didn't understand the question.

'I mean, what's your religion? Are you a Christian? Or a Muslim?'

'No!' I replied, 'I am neither Christian nor Muslim'.

Apparently she appeared shocked to listen to that. 'Then who are you?' 'I am a Hindu', I said.

She looked at me as if she was seeing a caged animal. She could not understand what I was talking about.

A common man in Europe or US knows about Christianity and Islam, as they are the leading religions of the world today. But a Hindu, what?

I explained to her - I am born to a Hindu father and Hindu mother. Therefore, I am a Hindu by birth.

'Who is your prophet?' she asked.

'We don't have a prophet,' I replied.

'What's your Holy Book?'

'We don't have a single Holy Book, but we have hundreds and thousands of philosophical and sacred scriptures,' I replied.

'Oh, come on at least tell me who is your God?'

'What do you mean by that?'

'Like we have Jesus and Muslims have Allah - don't you have a God?'
I thought for a moment. Muslims and Christians believe one God (Male God) who created the world and takes an interest in the humans who inhabit it. Her mind is conditioned with that kind of belief.

According to her (or anybody who doesn't know about Hinduism), a religion needs to have one Prophet, one Holy book and one God. The mind is so conditioned and rigidly narrowed down to such a notion that anything else is not acceptable. I understood her perception and concept about faith. You can't compare Hinduism with any of the present leading religions where you have to believe in one concept of god.

I tried to explain to her: 'You can believe in one god and he can be a Hindu. You may believe in multiple deities and still you can be a Hindu. What's more - you may not believe in god at all, still you can be a Hindu. An atheist can also be a Hindu.'

This sounded very crazy to her. She couldn't imagine a religion so unorganized, still surviving for thousands of years, even after onslaught from foreign forces.

'I don't understand but it seems very interesting. Are you religious?'

What can I tell to this American girl?

I said: 'I do not go to temple regularly. I do not make any regular rituals. I have learned some of the rituals in my younger days. I still enjoy doing it sometimes..'

'Enjoy? Are you not afraid of God?'

'God is a friend. No- I am not afraid of God. Nobody has made any compulsions on me to perform these rituals regularly.'

She thought for a while and then asked: 'Have you ever thought of converting to any other religion?'

'Why should I? Even if I challenge some of the rituals and faith in Hinduism, nobody can convert me from Hinduism. Because, being a Hindu allows me to think independently and objectively, without conditioning. I remain as a Hindu never by force, but choice.' I told her that Hinduism is not a religion, but a set of beliefs and practices. It is not a religion like Christianity or Islam because it is not founded by any one person or does not have an organized controlling body like the Church or the Order, I added. There is no institution or authority..

'So, you don't believe in God?' she wanted everything in black and white.
'I didn't say that. I do not discard the divine reality. Our scripture, or Sruthis or Smrithis - Vedas and Upanishads or the Gita - say God might be there or he might not be there. But we pray to that supreme abstract authority (Para Brahma) that is the creator of this universe.'

'Why can't you believe in one personal God?'

'We have a concept - abstract - not a personal god. The concept or notion of a personal God, hiding behind the clouds of secrecy, telling us irrational stories through few men whom he sends as messengers, demanding us to worship him or punish us, does not make sense. I don't think that God is as silly as an autocratic emperor who wants others to respect him or fear him.' I told her that such notions are just fancies of less educated human imagination and fallacies, adding that generally ethnic religious practitioners in Hinduism believe in personal gods. The entry level Hinduism has over-whelming superstitions too. The philosophical side of Hinduism negates all superstitions.

'Good that you agree God might exist. You told that you pray. What is your prayer then?'

'Loka Samastha Sukino Bhavantu. Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti,'

'Funny,' she laughed, 'What does it mean?'

'May all the beings in all the worlds be happy. Om Peace, Peace, Peace.'

'Hmm ..very interesting. I want to learn more about this religion. It is so democratic, broad-minded and free' she exclaimed.

'The fact is Hinduism is a religion of the individual, for the individual and by the individual with its roots in the Vedas and the Bhagavad-Gita. It is all about an individual approaching a personal God in an individual way according to his temperament and inner evolution - it is as simple as that.'

'How does anybody convert to Hinduism?'

'Nobody can convert you to Hinduism, because it is not a religion, but a set of beliefs and practices. Everything is acceptable in Hinduism because there is no single authority or organization either to accept it or to reject it or to oppose it on behalf of Hinduism.'

I told her - if you look for meaning in life, don't look for it in religions; don't go from one cult to another or from one guru to the next.

For a real seeker, I told her, the Bible itself gives guidelines when it says ' Kingdom of God is within you.' I reminded her of Christ's teaching about the love that we have for each other. That is where you can find the meaning of life.

Loving each and every creation of the God is absolute and real. 'Isavasyam idam sarvam' Isam (the God) is present (inhabits) here everywhere - nothing exists separate from the God, because God is present everywhere. Respect every living being and non-living things as God. That's what Hinduism teaches you.

Hinduism is referred to as Sanathana Dharma, the eternal faith. It is based on the practice of Dharma, the code of life. The most important aspect of Hinduism is being truthful to oneself. Hinduism has no monopoly on ideas.- It is open to all. Hindus believe in one God (not a personal one) expressed in different forms. For them, God is timeless and formless entity.

Ancestors of today's Hindus believe in eternal truths and cosmic laws and these truths are opened to anyone who seeks them. But there is a section of Hindus who are either superstitious or turned fanatic to make this an organized religion like others. The British coin the word 'Hindu' and considered it as a religion.

I said: 'Religions have become an MLM (multi-level- marketing) industry that has been trying to expand the market share by conversion. The biggest business in today's world is Spirituality. Hinduism is no exception'
I am a Hindu primarily because it professes Non-violence - 'Ahimsa Paramo Dharma' - Non violence is the highest duty. I am a Hindu because it doesn't conditions my mind with any faith system.

A man/ woman who change 's his/her birth religion to another religion is a fake and does not value his/her morals, culture and values in life.
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