"Bitcoin Will Go To A Million Dollars"
- Thread starter dnb21
- Start date
Where did you get this understanding from?
If Bitcoin took over the world, there would probably still be FRB and QE.
That's the joke actually.
If you take illegal trade out of the equation then Bitcoin would be on very shaky ground. There would be no good reason to turn your hard earned $ into BTC, to purchase an iPhone on Ebay for example.
If by way of a miracle Ebay announced tomorrow that they were going to start accepting Bitcoin, again please provide a valid reasoning as to why you would spend your Bitcoin over spending your $.
If you are willing to accept the predicament then how would this ever be overcome?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj2s6vzErqY"]Silver, Gold & Debt Collapse - Mike Maloney (The Case for $20,000oz Gold) - YouTube[/ame]
Go to 30:35
awesome.
i'd disagree that US/Euro hyperinflation is far off on the timeline, but your point was clear and accurate that china is in a damned-if-you-do/don't type of quandary. the chinese wisely pegged the yuan to the dollar to prevent the US from fucking them over on trade. its not based on anything material. the RNB values of today mean absolutely nothing, just pegged numbers to maintain whatever objective they choose. its not a solid currency, its a phantom number controlled by a communist regime used to play chess with the US federal reserve.
Right now it's almost idiotic to spend bitcoin because you could just hold it for 2 seconds and then it's worth twice as much. The conclusion is at this exact point in time, bitcoin is considered more of a commodity than an actual currency. Most people believe that the volatility of the exchange rate will significantly decline once the current "going mainstream" phase is over ... the reason it's growing so rapidly now is because it's starting to hit the mainstream and more people are starting to talk about it, businesses are starting to accept it, etc so of course its popularity is booming.
As far as why you would want to spend bitcoin over $ there are a lot of basic fundamentals that make it superior. To give some perspective, I have invested in bitcoin and I believe it to be significantly better than the US dollar, but I still hold most of my worth in USD because this "bitcoin doomsday scenario" is a little too far-fetched for me. Anyway, the main benefits IMO:
1) No/negligible transaction fees.
2) Instant transfers. Send 100 million dollars to your friend halfway across the world at 3am, he'll receive the money instantly.
3) No more chargeback fraud/scamming/etc, meaning businesses can abolish their useless fraud departments and put the money towards more investments.
4) Untraceable (good for consumers, bad for govs).
Personally I believe bitcoin will BENEFIT from a little regulation, because many people are scared to use it when there's more work required to keep it secure, there's no way to insure it, etc. so I think if the gov decides to slap some rules on it, or even to recognize it as an actual store of value, then the exchange rate will grow even faster than it has been so far, because up to now I assume the majority of bitcoin buyers are people who work in tech or are very tech-savvy, and it doesn't appeal as much to the average man (yet).
Yeah, this is the part I'm curious to see how it unfolds. Obviously, security is a downfall for Bitcoin right now. I think there's a good chance in the coming years we'll see some really innovative, strong, and easy to implement security solutions that are far better than what we currently have.
Right now, you can't just throw up a Bitcoin related site, same as you would a standard eCommerce site that accepts PayPal / Stripe, or whatever. Hackers are relentless with Bitcoin sites, and they pounded with thousands of requests/hour, etc. It's takes quite a bit more to keep the hackers at bay, and isn't something Jane who sells candles and teddy bears online is going to want to deal with.
And so far, Bitcoin has a dismal track record. Payment processor after payment processor has been hacked into, wiped, and they subsequently go out of business.
Maybe they are falling apart because you can't have anarchism without the ecosystem. You can't have institutions start up without law, insurance etc all in place. This was the point I tried to make in another thread. Or maybe it was this thread, I dunno. Wickedfire is a blur of lame troll tags, retarded IM posts and Bitcoin threads these days.
Now, I totally believe you can have anarchism (and it will be darker and harder than people expect) but you need the ecosystem in place. Bitcoin is a second order good in a sense. You can't change the money until you have the social systems in place to do business in Bitcoin, to regulate and approve BTC institutions etc.
In fact, if you wanted to do something really radical, you'd start a Bitcoin private regulator. You'd require BTC businesses to document their security practices, to publish their books, etc. Everything would be transparent. BTC institutions would need reserves, and insurance on deposits etc. You could certify them, arbitrate disputes etc.
That said, you still need USD to pay taxes. It doesn't matter if you can hide your transactions, the taxman says you are guilty until proven innocent, and any business which doesn't report its BTC transactions transparently will have its business license pulled and be fined or shut down.
It's so early in this BTC thing. It's a speculative mania right now. There is no one, 4 years in, who can live 100% with only Bitcoin direct transactions. And there probably never will be until Bitcoin becomes legal tender for the purpose of paying tax debts.
Now, I totally believe you can have anarchism (and it will be darker and harder than people expect) but you need the ecosystem in place. Bitcoin is a second order good in a sense. You can't change the money until you have the social systems in place to do business in Bitcoin, to regulate and approve BTC institutions etc.
In fact, if you wanted to do something really radical, you'd start a Bitcoin private regulator. You'd require BTC businesses to document their security practices, to publish their books, etc. Everything would be transparent. BTC institutions would need reserves, and insurance on deposits etc. You could certify them, arbitrate disputes etc.
That said, you still need USD to pay taxes. It doesn't matter if you can hide your transactions, the taxman says you are guilty until proven innocent, and any business which doesn't report its BTC transactions transparently will have its business license pulled and be fined or shut down.
It's so early in this BTC thing. It's a speculative mania right now. There is no one, 4 years in, who can live 100% with only Bitcoin direct transactions. And there probably never will be until Bitcoin becomes legal tender for the purpose of paying tax debts.
^ Agreed. Bitcoin right now is basically the equivalent of all-out anarchy, and no matter how much someone supports the ideology and the concept, it would be ridiculous to store all of their money in bitcoin. I think this is the #1 thing preventing it from really "going mainstream." I keep my money in a US bank because there is (for the most part) a 100% guarantee that if the bank is hacked/robbed/destroyed, the money is safe. With bitcoin there's a 100% guarantee that if your wallet is hacked/robbed/destroyed, you're fucked, game over. If the governments choose NOT to regulate bitcoin, that could actually turn out to be their best method of suppressing it.
It'll be interesting to see how it develops.
It'll be interesting to see how it develops.
I think your compass is a little bit off here. It's the exchanges that get hammered, not small bizzes... Not enough money it it to do so.
Luckily there are no less than 50 exchanges now, most based away from the USSA.
I'll agree to this point, but bitcoin is bigger than anarchism. Lots of fools just want a better payment system, and even more people (half of china in fact) want gold 2.0. We true believers in it want it for anarchy, but it'll take more infrastructure than just the financial network to deliver that.
But this total ecosystem has been in the works since the cypherpunks got started. We're getting there day by day and I'm quite sure I'll live to see it all implemented.
And destroy bitcoin's fungibility? Fuckabunchathat.
Anyone who tries to destroy bitcoin's fungibility and therefore hurt bitcoin will be an easy target for everyone with black market access to illegal weapons to do some target practice on.
So 100 days while travelling the planet wasn't enough for you?
If you don't count taxes living on bitcoin in any big city is now a reality. For criminies' sake, there are even subway restaurants that take bitcoin now!
No state with a central bank will ever allow this but this fact just makes it much, much more likely that the anarchist societies get created. I'm almost happy about this in fact.
I know, I know, the common man on the street won't give a shit and can still live happily on fiat alone... But every day I see new apps and services that REQUIRE bitcoin to be used... All it will take is for one of them to really catch on, like facebook did for instance, and suddenly everyone will suddenly go out and get some bitcoin for that purpose. -Which makes the entire public educated bitcoin holders and the bitcoin economy will flourish like never before. Big stores will have to accept it just to compete.
...And agorism will be able to thrive like never before in such an environment.
Really? Would you like to see some server logs? The sites I'm responsible for would be considered small biz, and trust me, we're getting absolutely fucken hammered from all angles. And I don't mean just some 13 year old script kiddie in India, but these are pretty brutal and non-stop attacks.
I've been doing this software thing for about 13 years now, and have been responsible for some pretty good sized online operations, but not once have I had to be this security aware. I think we got everything locked down pretty tight now, but my point was, no typical merchant is going to go through all this just so they can trade in Bitcoin.
They'll maybe give Bitcoin a try, get wiped out once due a hacker, and will go back to PayPal. Again, I think we're going to see some pretty innovative (and easy to implement) security solutions coming up in the near future.
Bitcoin is not gold.
Are you a programmer? Because if you're not, you're no cypherpunk.
That word doesn't mean what you think it means. You should avoid using big words you don't understand.
Ah yes, threaten physical violence for someone engaging in a peaceful voluntary activity.
Funny how you think you're libertarian, but you think everyone else is a sheeple and it's ok to violence them. Outed yourself. Well done.
Yeah, if you don't count the main thing, then like, everything else is totally wonderful.
I am basically reading your posts just to see what sort of crazy stuff you will post next.
It's inevitable. It's only a matter of time until the sheeple realize it or we get guns and coerce them to accept the new Chinese Gold 2.0.