Buying Pre-Developed Real Estate

Kiopa_Matt

Banned
May 13, 2011
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This is one thing that's been on my mind lately.

Seems like a lot of people decide going into real-estate is a solid decision, and for whatever reason go directly for the cheap, dilapidated shit holes. They'll pick up some 60 year old piece of junk for $50k, dump tons of money, time, and resources into it, then rent or sell it, with hopes of making good profit some time down the road. I have no idea, but I do know it sounds like such an absolute nightmare that I will never attempt it.

However, the best real estate investments I've ever witnessed are when people get in during the beginning development stage. Land is purchased, permits granted, architectural design complete, maybe construction has started, maybe not. That type of thing. Whether it's a house in a new sub-division, condo in a high-rise, maybe a multi-building complex, or whatever.

For example, I knew one guy who purchased 4 condos in the same complex for about $200k each just as they were breaking ground. A few years later once construction was complete, they were selling for $600k a unit. I don't know about you, but that seems like a pretty easy $1.6 million profit to me, especially considering there's no real work involved. It was pure investment. No fucking around with faulty electrical, cracked foundation, or any of that shit.

The bad part of this is, especially depending on country you purchase in, the project sometimes simply never gets completed. They just run out of money or whatever, close shop, and instead of getting your unit(s), all you have is some steel beams and scaffolding to look at. You can try to recoup via the legal route of course, but more often than not, you spend 3 years and $50k just to find out you're not getting a penny back.

Anyway, have any of you went this route, instead of buying older properties. How has it went? Any stories to share? Any tips to find good properties that are just coming up to purchase?
 


There are 100 ways to do real estate, just like there are 100 ways to make money online.

All have risk, all have pros and cons.

It boils down to what YOU can handle and what YOU want to get in.

I know people that have done both examples of real estate you talk about, and I have known both to make AND lose money doing it.

The one thing people like about buying shit holes as you call them is, they are able to live in them and upgrade them and then sell them for profit and keep moving up the chain without paying tax on the money they make. Can't do that with 4 condos.

Some people also like to rehab themselves, just like some people like to garden or play bridge.

Some people are micro managers and control freaks.

Flip side: Some people know 0 about real estate and/OR want nothing to do with it and therefor are just looking for a long term flip on just their money only.
 
What I do is buy a semi-dilapidated shit hole that will only cost 5-10k in repairs that cash-flows from day one and within 2.5 years I make back my down-payment and repairs.

Free house in 2.5yrs and I'm picking up a new one every 4-6 months trying to trim that down.

The reason I do this is the calculable risk. The main things I have to worry about is unforeseen big-ticket items that need to be replaced (Roof, AC, etc). However, if I do good inspections up front and routine maintenance these aren't a big issue and even if one pops up, it's only another 6 months to recoup.

You're model on the other hand has no cash flow and relys on appreciation that is completely out of your control unless you are the actual developer. I don't like playing the appreciation game.
 
For example, I knew one guy who purchased 4 condos in the same complex for about $200k each just as they were breaking ground. A few years later once construction was complete, they were selling for $600k a unit. I don't know about you, but that seems like a pretty easy $1.6 million profit to me, especially considering there's no real work involved. It was pure investment. No fucking around with faulty electrical, cracked foundation, or any of that shit.

The bad part of this is, especially depending on country you purchase in, the project sometimes simply never gets completed. They just run out of money or whatever, close shop, and instead of getting your unit(s), all you have is some steel beams and scaffolding to look at. You can try to recoup via the legal route of course, but more often than not, you spend 3 years and $50k just to find out you're not getting a penny back.

a house that already exists, already exists. it cant suddenly not be finished for a variety of reasons. thats why the margin isnt as large as buying 5 condos that might never be finished. may be finished but with faults (like fucking faulty electrical). get finished but the area isnt hot spot anymore.

you just figured that larger risk equals larger return. so fuckin smart i can barely believe it.
 
do you really care for the colour of some rectangles on a board thats obsessed with cones?
 
..

However, the best real estate investments I've ever witnessed are when people get in during the beginning development stage. Land is purchased, permits granted, architectural design complete, maybe construction has started, maybe not. That type of thing. Whether it's a house in a new sub-division, condo in a high-rise, maybe a multi-building complex, or whatever.

..

There are just as many people sitting on worthless housing developments, with paved streets, side walks, and lots worth less than they paid for the dirt originally. Timing is everything.

Real Estate is all about the exit. Your investment strategy should be based on where you want your money to end up.
 
one of the best things about a shit hole is...

you should always buy the worst house in the best neighborhood. Good neighborhoods rarely go bad ( unless you are talking about 20-30+ years going by ).

With new development, you dont know if thats going to ACTUALLY be the good neighborhood. Sure you have some idea it WILL BE, but until people actually buy and move in, its a pure gamble.

With a shit hole in a nice/good area, that isnt gonna change anytime soon. Invest 5-15k in it and make 2-3x more back rather easily ( though might take time to sell, but the value isnt gonna drop )
 
Check their credit, ask their supplier how they pay, find out what kind of debt they are carrying vs. their income, find their carpentry subs and ask the owner how long they have been with the builder, how he pays , ect.

You want to know estimated completion for the project, phases ect. How the trucks will be routed after your property is done.

The majority of decent developments build equity in the first houses.

A couple people are predicting trouble for 2015 though. I personally wouldnt hang my money on someone elses real estate right now.
 
The family that owned a company I worked at bought 3 condo's that were sold before started. The market fell apart and they ended up losing around $70K a unit.
 
I was actually talking to someone that owns lots of duplex's, he 's been doing it for a while, he actually knows lots of shit about electrical, plumbing and other shit related to real estate. Lot of people tried and still try to fuck with him with quotes, over charges and shit like that, but he knows the in and out of real estate so its hard for anyone to screw with him, it also helps his whole family is into that field so he learned from ground up from family.
 
I was actually talking to someone that owns lots of duplex's, he 's been doing it for a while, he actually knows lots of shit about electrical, plumbing and other shit related to real estate. Lot of people tried and still try to fuck with him with quotes, over charges and shit like that, but he knows the in and out of real estate so its hard for anyone to screw with him, it also helps his whole family is into that field so he learned from ground up from family.
I only purchase multi-family (duplex, 4-plex) rather than single-family. And I've been fucked several times by contractors. Finding a good contractor is like finding a good designer.
You're going to sacrifice on one of the three: quality, time, or coin.
 
What you are talking about is called speculation. You are speculating the price will go up once they are finished.

The person who buys a crappy house, fixes it up and rents it is not really speculating. They know what rent should be. They know what the fix up is. They can easily calculate their ROI.

If you are comfortable with 8-10% annually with some upside potential there are many passive funds that take investors on in private placements. You could pick development, multi-family, mobile home parks, etc.

If you want to make 100%+ on your money you either will be taking huge risks or have to be really active in your investments.
 
What I do is buy a semi-dilapidated shit hole that will only cost 5-10k in repairs that cash-flows from day one and within 2.5 years I make back my down-payment and repairs.

Free house in 2.5yrs and I'm picking up a new one every 4-6 months trying to trim that down.

The reason I do this is the calculable risk. The main things I have to worry about is unforeseen big-ticket items that need to be replaced (Roof, AC, etc). However, if I do good inspections up front and routine maintenance these aren't a big issue and even if one pops up, it's only another 6 months to recoup.

You're model on the other hand has no cash flow and relys on appreciation that is completely out of your control unless you are the actual developer. I don't like playing the appreciation game.

Smart man. most people think of appreciation and only appreciation in the real estate game.

Cash flows are where it's at. You can survive price swings (which nobody can control) if you buy places that are producing a good healthy cash flow (which you CAN control)

Here's a great article. I recommend everyone with 10 mins to spare (all of you) read it

The Common Sense Way to Invest in Rental Real Estate - stansberry
 
One of the better sayings in the RE industry about development is : You can make money in wheelbarrow loads, but lose it in dumptruck fulls.

I know a few that have made significant sums of money from speculation and development like you're saying, and I also know a few who have lost everything over it (One was around a $10mm enterprise) over deals gone bad.

Whatever you do, put hundreds, if not thousands of hours in research into your method, then another hundred/thousand hours in your SPECIFIC markets.

Every market is different, and it's impossible for anyone to say what's going to work in your area, because it might work, it might not work. Alot of people make alot of money in speculation, but in areas like LV, there were literally thousands of speculators who each lost hundreds of thousands of dollars overnight. The market is cyclical, and every market is essentially in its own cycle. So you HAVE to be careful.

My market is in rehabilition and long-term cashflow. After we rent our our current deals, we will be up to around 18.6% COC-ROI on a yearly basis. We have also experienced an equity gain of over 80% on our initial investment. On top of this we're also gaining a solid 7.3% in expected equity increase per year. The money and equity we are building is so good, that our lender is now allowing us to go out and purchase 2-3 more properties a month to add to our portfolio. And I specialize in those specific dumps you don't want to touch.

Long-term, pre-developed, solid cashflowing deals are great, but I wouldn't touch them with the kind of money I'm making in so-called dumps. One of my business partners was looking at getting in a $70mm 1050 rental unit deal. Un-leveraged they were making a whopping 8% a year. I don't know about you, but that isn't enough to make me get out of bed in the morning, yet some people live for it.

I also do want to warn you and everyone, that while you guys sling berries and bizops to single moms, there are guys that sling Toronto/Mami/LA/Vancouver condo development deals to you. And instead of a $71.99 rebill, they're getting lots of wide-eyed pseudo-rich people for $200k, $300k, $500k a pop they'll never get back and laughing all the way to the bank.
 
Smart man. most people think of appreciation and only appreciation in the real estate game.

Cash flows are where it's at. You can survive price swings (which nobody can control) if you buy places that are producing a good healthy cash flow (which you CAN control)

Here's a great article. I recommend everyone with 10 mins to spare (all of you) read it

The Common Sense Way to Invest in Rental Real Estate - stansberry

If you TRULY understand cashflow like they are talking about there, you'll do just fine.

I still own two properties I bought in 2007 with alt-A finance (0% down, subprime loans). One property I put a princely sum of $3500 in after purchase and rehab. My 7 year yield has been $26,208. On this specific property I bought it at the absolute height of the market. So much for a crash, right?
 
What you are talking about is called speculation. You are speculating the price will go up once they are finished.

This is what you're thinking of doing, you're going to roll the dice and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. I have lost BIG TIME playing that game.

I decided to learn the market so I wouldn't take it hard in the ass again. I've been a real estate agent for 15 years and also a real estate appraiser for about 10 years. I know my market like no one else. To this day I have people try and tell me what properties are worth and 95% of them have no clue including real estate agents. If you want to play this game, I suggest you take some appraiser classes on how to value real estate. Don't ever take someone's opinion as fact.

I suggest playing the shit hole game, you'll know exactly what something will be worth in the end at today's value. Get an inspection or a contractor to walk through the property with you to see what it will cost to fix it up. Then make an offer based on those facts. Many people make good money playing that game.