Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less

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Wrong on all counts.

The fuel economy of the Tahoe dropped 27 percent when running on E85 compared with gasoline, from an already low 14 mpg overall to 10 mpg (rounded to the nearest mpg). This is the lowest fuel mileage we’ve gotten from any vehicle in recent years.

...

When we calculated the Tahoe’s driving range, we found that it decreased to about 300 miles on a full tank of E85 compared with about 440 on gasoline. So you have to fill up more often with E85.

You could expect a similar decrease in gas mileage in any current FFV. That’s because ethanol has a lower energy content than gasoline: 75,670 British thermal units per gallon instead of 115,400, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. So you have to burn more fuel to generate the same amount of energy. In addition, FFV engines are designed to run more efficiently on gasoline. E85 fuel economy could approach that of gasoline if manufacturers optimized engines for that fuel.

According to a 2005 report issued by the Agriculture Department, corn ethanol costs an average of $2.53 to produce, or several times what it costs to produce a gallon of gasoline. Without the subsidies, costs would be higher still. A study last fall from the International Institute for Sustainable Development found that ethanol subsidies amount to $1.05-$1.38 per gallon, or 42 percent to 55 percent of ethanol's wholesale market price.

According to a group of academics from UC Berkeley who published in Science magazine last year, 5 percent to 26 percent of the energy content of ethanol is "renewable." The balance of ethanol's energy actually comes from the staggering amount of coal, natural gas and nuclear power necessary to produce corn and process it into ethanol.

Petroleum subsidies are something less than $1 billion a year – six to eight times less than ethanol subsidies – and work out to about 0.3 cents per gallon.

What's causing grocery bills to rise? Some blame policies that have made it especially profitable for farmers to divert their crops into corn for the production of ethanol. "The ethanol industry is hogging more and more of the corn supply, and that is squeezing ranchers and dairy farmers," says Daniel Griswold, director of the Center for Trade Policy Studies at the Cato Institute, a Washington, D.C., think tank.

All sources cited:

Ethanol Makes Gasoline Costlier, Dirtier

Subsidies and High Crop Prices - US News and World Report

Ethanol Subsidies, State and Federal

ConsumerReports.org - Ethanol 10/06: E85, alternative fuels, flexible-fuel vehicles
 


Here's the scary part of all of this:
The Saudis' cost for producing a barrel of oil is $2. At the current price of $140/barrel they are turning around and effectively buying discounted stocks of American companies such as Citigroup for under 26 cents a share.

How much longer can this lopsided trade keep going before we've given our whole country away?

Damn corruption in politics will cause our lives as we know it to change for the worse, much sooner than later that's for sure.

And as dense as I thought you were initially on this issue, here you spit absolute brilliance.


050426_BUSH-ABDULLAH_ex.jpg
 
We're on our way to becoming 1990's Russia. For the most part, 100 million Americans need to drive to work to earn a living. Take that to $6-7 a gallon and you'll be finding folks who use welfare because working is too expensive. After a while, we'll really have a problem on our hands: Health, education, and social services will seriously suffer. Just sayin. Look at those in the W. Virginia backwoods, that's the rest of the country if we don't alleviate this gas price mess.

I recognize that there is a serious issue with high fuel prices - and getting those prices under control is necessary. But drilling doesn't guarantee that those prices will come down. We need energy independence as well as energy diversity.

I was commuting 100 miles a day just before fuel passed $3/gallon. Sold my place and moved to town - so I hear you on the fact that it becomes more expensive to go to work than it does to stay home. But fact is, it was a decision to commute that far. There were other jobs, and in an effort to alleviate the commute, I moved.
 
And as dense as I thought you were initially on this issue, here you spit absolute brilliance.

For the life of me, I have no clue why you are hell bent on flaming me here. Granted, I have conservative views and you obviously are more on the liberal side but one thing we both obviously agree on is the need for energy independence. It's just the methods we may disagree on.

And yes, that picture of Bush holding hands with King Abdullah makes my stomach turn like you won't believe. Not as a conservative, but as an American with great concern where things are headed.
 
Wrong on all counts.



Could you be any more liberal? How does Bill O'Reilly's cock feel in your mouth?

You know they're teaching 5th graders how to qualify Internet sources now, perhaps you could do the same.

Laughable.
 
Could you be any more liberal? How does Bill O'Reilly's cock feel in your mouth?

You know they're teaching 5th graders how to qualify Internet sources now, perhaps you could do the same.

Laughable.

:rolleyes: Right. Nice response to getting fuck owned by real sources rather than rhetoric and drivel. Do you even know who the CATO institute is? Also hey, Consumer Reports, totally not reliable compared to the sourceless credibility that is bb_wolfe :bowdown:

I'm Libertarian, by the way.
 
:rolleyes: Right. Nice response to getting fuck owned by real sources rather than rhetoric and drivel. Do you even know who the CATO institute is? Also hey, Consumer Reports, totally not reliable compared to the sourceless credibility that is bb_wolfe :bowdown:

I'm Libertarian, by the way.

Consumer reports has been irrelevant for years, you know this.

But whatever. I invest in Ethanol and will continue to use it, as will millions of others.

The simple fact that Ethanol use is growing like wildfire, despite your highly liberal 'facts', disproves your views. A billion dollar industry sort of disproves your idea that Ethanol is a worthless product.

I suppose you're still jaded about the horse and buggy industry going down the shitter, eh?
 
glurrrfff liberal hurrrrr

still no facts or sources to back up Bush's cock in your mouth there, friend. plus, I gave the numbers about ethanol having a lower energy density than gasoline, that's a chemical fact. what are you going to say, liberals made up chemistry to piss you off?

plus since when is wanting a free market instead of subsidized shit liberal?
 
still no facts or sources to back up Bush's cock in your mouth there, friend. plus, I gave the numbers about ethanol having less energy within it than gasoline, that's a chemical fact. what are you going to say, liberals made up chemistry to piss you off?

plus since when is wanting a free market instead of subsidized shit liberal?



I forgot that since it's on the Internet, it's a fact. (90% of facts are made up, 50% of the time - love that commercial.)

And 'having less energy'? WTF? I think you mean to talk about how the octane ratings and combustion variables are different.

Just stop, you're beat. EOT. Ethanol is here to stay, but keep screeching if you wish, I won't be listening.
 
And 'having less energy'? WTF? I think you mean to talk about how the octane ratings and combustion variables are different.

Just stop, you're beat. EOT. Ethanol is here to stay, but keep screeching if you wish, I won't be listening.

lol you're a fucking moron.

look up the energy density in ethanol and the energy density in gasoline. as a matter of fact, here you go:

picture3vj1.png

oh, and MJ = Megajoules, a unit of energy

which converts, as I said in a quote earlier, to:
Ethanol: 75,670 BTU/Gal
Gasoline: 115,400 BTU/Gal

it's not octane rating at all you dipshit. it's how much unit energy per unit volume can be obtained from the chemical. you have NO idea what you're talking about, and what you're getting into.

edit: should be noted that higher octane fuels have lower energy densities. it may be cleaner for your car but you get worse mileage in general.
 
I really wish more people were honestly. The dual party system we have is there for nothing other than sticking it to the ever diminishing middle class.... but hey, what the hell do I know right? *as I go off to file my quarterly taxes*



Don't get me wrong, I agree the 2-party system sucks and am not bashing him for being a libertarian per-se, hell, I was registered reform until that party collapsed.

I just think his idea is a little elitist and skewed by what he's read, not what he knows.
 
For the life of me, I have no clue why you are hell bent on flaming me here. Granted, I have conservative views and you obviously are more on the liberal side but one thing we both obviously agree on is the need for energy independence. It's just the methods we may disagree on.

And yes, that picture of Bush holding hands with King Abdullah makes my stomach turn like you won't believe. Not as a conservative, but as an American with great concern where things are headed.

Ah, I didn't think I was flaming, just using the wickedfire vernacular. :cool:

I jumped to some conclusions, threw out a fair bit of my own hyperbole, and generally had a pretty good time!

+1 for you.
 
Who'da thunk that posting a link to a "douchey petition" would turn into such a hot topic!



No joke. Everyone in this thread is someone I'd love to buy a few rounds for at ASE. I'll even pay for the ER visit once we get really disagreeable!
 
Could you be any more liberal? How does Bill O'Reilly's cock feel in your mouth?

still trying to make sense of this too since o'reilly whines about liberals and hates them with a passion

No joke. Everyone in this thread is someone I'd love to buy a few rounds for at ASE. I'll even pay for the ER visit once we get really disagreeable!

Too broke to go :anon.sml: Too new to affiliate stuff to have enough built up for that
 
still trying to make sense of this too since o'reilly whines about liberals and hates them with a passion



Too broke to go :anon.sml: Too new to affiliate stuff to have enough built up for that



You're not going to like this: I'm going to ASE with the dividend check I received from a $7500 investment in an ethanol plant in Groton, SD back in 2006.

How fucking ironic is that.
 
You're not going to like this: I'm going to ASE with the dividend check I received from a $7500 investment in an ethanol plant in Groton, SD back in 2006.

How fucking ironic is that.

on a petroleum powered jet no less :rasta:
 
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