Epic highway accident caught on camera

mituozo,

Would you play the same lottery numbers as the ones that were just won by someone else?

If your son's name was Brad Pitt, would you even THINK he has a chance in Hollywood?

etc etc.

and,

Is pretty damn ambigous too. My lungs were working a minute ago, there's a chance they'll be working again in another minute. knock on wood.


I'll take it another step with you guys.

THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER CRASH EXACTLY LIKE THAT ONE, WITH THE SAME NUMBER OF CREW NUMBERS, THE SAME MODEL AIRPLANE, THE SAME BRIDGE, THE SAME TIME, THE SAME NUMBER OF SURVIVORS, WITH THE SAME NUMBER OF BIRDS FLYING OVER AHEAD AT THE TIME OF THE CRASH

Argue that one. But according to your axiom, it doesnt matter if it already happened?

The probability would be the same for lottery numbers.

Simple example is that to say two heads will come up in a row flipping a coin twice is 25%.

But once you've flipped a coin and it comes up heads it's not then a 25% chance another will come up, it resets back to 50%.

In the case of the airline crash it would be correct to say the chances of two happening close to each other would be very rare. But once one happens the chance of a second one that is similar resets as well.

Now in this case due to this crash happening airlines in that area (and probably other areas) will be more vigilant which could prevent it from happening.

If you've ever read Science if Persuasion you'll remember the bit where Cialdini talks about strings of airplane crashes happening during suicides.

So the idea that if a crash just happened your more safe can sometimes be the opposite of what's true as they can happen in clusters.
 


I once flicked a cigarette butt in the air toward a pile of gravel. I had a hard time believing when I saw it landed on a small rock. Butt to the ground, and the amber in the air, perfectly erect. If I had tried to place it that way, I'd have a hard time. How the hell it landed like that way, on a windy day, after flipping it some distance in the air and with no intention of it landing that way...

Does that count a gay-webmaster-miracle-extremely-unlikely-event-thingy?

Please stop smoking, it is very bad for you.
 
I believe what mr productionhead is trying to say is that although every spin of the roulette wheel is independent of the last, he has never heard of 100 consecutive red spins. Nor has he heard of two major commercial airplanes crashing in the same month.

Just because he hasn't heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen:

2003

January 8 – Air Midwest Flight 5481, a Beechcraft 1900, crashes on takeoff from Charlotte, North Carolina in the United States; all 19 passengers and 2 pilots are killed.

January 8 – Turkish Airlines Flight 634, an Avro RJ100, crashes during its final approach to land at Diyarbakır Airport, Turkey in extensive fog. All of the 5 crew and 70 of the 75 passengers are killed, 5 passengers survive with heavy injuries.

January 9 – TANS Perú Flight 222, a Fokker F28, crashes while on approach to Chachapoyas Airport; all 46 on board die.


2005

August 2 – Air France Flight 358, an Airbus A340-300, skids off a runway in Toronto, Ontario, while landing and catches fire; all 309 on board escape without fatalities or serious injuries, but the aircraft is completely destroyed by the fire.

August 6 – Tuninter Flight 1153, an ATR 72, ditches into the sea near Palermo, Sicily with 35 passengers and 4 crew members on board; 14 passengers and 2 crew members die.

August 10 – Copterline Flight 103, a Sikorsky S-76 helicopter crashes off Tallinn, Estonia, killing all 14 on board.

August 14 – Helios Airways Flight 522, a Boeing 737-300, crashes near Kalamos, Greece with 115 passengers and 6 crew members on board; there are no survivors.

August 16 – West Caribbean Airways Flight 708, a McDonnell Douglas MD-82, crashes in western Venezuela. All on board, 152 passengers and 8 crew members, die.

August 23 – TANS Perú Flight 204, a Boeing 737-200, crashes near Pucallpa, Peru. Forty of the 92 passengers on board, as well as four of the six crew members, perish.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_commercial_aircraft
 
Let us not forget that major airline failures resonate throughout the reactive airline industry and often cause reassessments of current protocol which vary in their extent and latitudinous effect depending on the nature of the accident, thereby also diminishing the odds of another similar accident occurring in the near future.

Yup unless another one happens before they do something about it.
 
Why don't roulette tables let players bet on streaks?

It would seem like a really easy way to take advantage of this cognitive bias.

Plenty of people would lay down a dollar at some point on the streak line...
 
mituozo,

Would you play the same lottery numbers as the ones that were just won by someone else?

Yes. When I have played the lottery for the lols, I bet on 6 numbers in one 10 number set, all of them over 31 to avoid the players who pick numbers based on birthdays, so that if I win I statistically have the best chance of winning the best share of the winnings.

That's because people don't bet on 6 numbers within the same 10 gap, again thinking it's unlikely that 6 numbers within the 40's or something is any less likely to come up than 6 other random numbers.

Whether those numbers have ever one before is irrelevant in that decision.

If your son's name was Brad Pitt, would you even THINK he has a chance in Hollywood?

No idea what you're talking about with that one.

Is pretty damn ambigous too. My lungs were working a minute ago, there's a chance they'll be working again in another minute. knock on wood.

Agreed, it only works for events which are independent. Two plane crashes are independent for the most part, unless it's a bad runway, or a particular fault that exists across 10 aircraft etc that causes the crash.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_(probability_theory)

Your lungs working now and in 10 minutes are not independent events. Your lungs working in 10 minutes time is dependent on them working now.


THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER CRASH EXACTLY LIKE THAT ONE, WITH THE SAME NUMBER OF CREW NUMBERS, THE SAME MODEL AIRPLANE, THE SAME BRIDGE, THE SAME TIME, THE SAME NUMBER OF SURVIVORS, WITH THE SAME NUMBER OF BIRDS FLYING OVER AHEAD AT THE TIME OF THE CRASH

Argue that one. But according to your axiom, it doesnt matter if it already happened?

The chances of that happening as you've stated there are close to zero, but not because it's already happened.

They're close to zero because the probability of that happening even in the first place was miniscule.

The fact it's already happened however does not change the chance of it happening within the next 30 days again, unless the two events are in some way dependent. (E.g. it was a fault across all of that particular model of plane, or the runway isn't suitable for that type of plane, etc)

Let us not forget that major airline failures resonate throughout the reactive airline industry and often cause reassessments of current protocol which vary in their extent and latitudinous effect depending on the nature of the accident, thereby also diminishing the odds of another similar accident occurring in the near future.

The airline industry takes a heck of a long time to do anything. First you'll have the equivalent of the NTSB in the country doing their investigation to confirm the cause of the crash (if it's particularly obvious that it's a plane fault, they might ground all of that particular model of plane during the investigation period), they'll then issue a notice if they believe that it was caused by a plane malfunction/bad maintenance and advise airlines to do something. The airlines will then do something over several months-years to rectify the problem.

The airlines react very slowly, because they can't just ground their fleets and do maintenance works/checks on them without going bankrupt.

With regards to roulette, it's the famous case in monte carlo that pretty much defines the gambler's fallacy:

On August 18, 1913, at the casino in Monte Carlo, black came up a record twenty-six times in succession [in roulette]. … [There] was a near-panicky rush to bet on red, beginning about the time black had come up a phenomenal fifteen times. In application of the maturity [of the chances] doctrine, players doubled and tripled their stakes, this doctrine leading them to believe after black came up the twentieth time that there was not a chance in a million of another repeat. In the end the unusual run enriched the Casino by some millions of francs.

After a black comes up, there's a 50% chance a black will come up, and a 50% chance a red will come up. A black coming up previously has no bearing on whether there'll be another black come up in the next spin.

A plane crashes somewhere in the world, and the chance of another one crashing tomorrow is exactly the same (ignoring differences in flight volumes, etc). Just because one crashed today doesn't mean one can't crash tomorrow because it's a rare event. Whilst the combined probability of two plane crashes in one month is very low, once one of the crashes has already occurred the probability of the second crash is exactly the same as it is for the first crash before that one happened, unless there is some kind of serious fault in that model of plane which means that all of them are liable to crash or something within the next week.

Which of the following do you disagree with?

The chance of a major airline plane crashing somewhere in the world in one month is low, lets go with a completely made up 5%.

The chance of 2 planes crashing in any 30 days, given our 5% chance of a major airline plane crashing anywhere in the world in one month assumption is 0.05x0.05 or 0.25% (5% x 5%).

We've agreed the chance of a plane crashing anytime in a 30 day window is 5%, so the chance of a second plane crashing after the first plane in the next 30 days is also 5%. This means that a plane crashing in next 30 days is just as likely as it was before the first crash.

Whilst the chance of two planes crashing in a 30 day window is much smaller than the chance of one plane crashing in 30 days before a plane has crashed, once the first plane has crashed, the chance of a plane crashing is exactly the same as it was before the crash, i.e. 5%.

I'm not sure what there is to not get about that?

Unless you're arguing that worldwide plane crashes are not independent events but are all dependent events. (i.e. one plane crash happening in Miami means a plane crash in Sydney is more or less likely.. because they are in some way linked, all planes have fault engines, all runways are built badly, or that all the airlines will somehow fix all the problems with existing planes in the next 30 days because of this crash etc)
 
Yes. When I have played the lottery for the lols, I bet on 6 numbers in one 10 number set, all of them over 31 to avoid the players who pick numbers based on birthdays, so that if I win I statistically have the best chance of winning the best share of the winnings.

That's because people don't bet on 6 numbers within the same 10 gap, again thinking it's unlikely that 6 numbers within the 40's or something is any less likely to come up than 6 other random numbers.

Whether those numbers have ever one before is irrelevant in that decision.



No idea what you're talking about with that one.



Agreed, it only works for events which are independent. Two plane crashes are independent for the most part, unless it's a bad runway, or a particular fault that exists across 10 aircraft etc that causes the crash.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_(probability_theory)

Your lungs working now and in 10 minutes are not independent events. Your lungs working in 10 minutes time is dependent on them working now.




The chances of that happening as you've stated there are close to zero, but not because it's already happened.

They're close to zero because the probability of that happening even in the first place was miniscule.

The fact it's already happened however does not change the chance of it happening within the next 30 days again, unless the two events are in some way dependent. (E.g. it was a fault across all of that particular model of plane, or the runway isn't suitable for that type of plane, etc)



The airline industry takes a heck of a long time to do anything. First you'll have the equivalent of the NTSB in the country doing their investigation to confirm the cause of the crash (if it's particularly obvious that it's a plane fault, they might ground all of that particular model of plane during the investigation period), they'll then issue a notice if they believe that it was caused by a plane malfunction/bad maintenance and advise airlines to do something. The airlines will then do something over several months-years to rectify the problem.

The airlines react very slowly, because they can't just ground their fleets and do maintenance works/checks on them without going bankrupt.

With regards to roulette, it's the famous case in monte carlo that pretty much defines the gambler's fallacy:



After a black comes up, there's a 50% chance a black will come up, and a 50% chance a red will come up. A black coming up previously has no bearing on whether there'll be another black come up in the next spin.

A plane crashes somewhere in the world, and the chance of another one crashing tomorrow is exactly the same (ignoring differences in flight volumes, etc). Just because one crashed today doesn't mean one can't crash tomorrow because it's a rare event. Whilst the combined probability of two plane crashes in one month is very low, once one of the crashes has already occurred the probability of the second crash is exactly the same as it is for the first crash before that one happened, unless there is some kind of serious fault in that model of plane which means that all of them are liable to crash or something within the next week.

Which of the following do you disagree with?

The chance of a major airline plane crashing somewhere in the world in one month is low, lets go with a completely made up 5%.

The chance of 2 planes crashing in any 30 days, given our 5% chance of a major airline plane crashing anywhere in the world in one month assumption is 0.05x0.05 or 0.25% (5% x 5%).

We've agreed the chance of a plane crashing anytime in a 30 day window is 5%, so the chance of a second plane crashing after the first plane in the next 30 days is also 5%. This means that a plane crashing in next 30 days is just as likely as it was before the first crash.

Whilst the chance of two planes crashing in a 30 day window is much smaller than the chance of one plane crashing in 30 days before a plane has crashed, once the first plane has crashed, the chance of a plane crashing is exactly the same as it was before the crash, i.e. 5%.

I'm not sure what there is to not get about that?

Unless you're arguing that worldwide plane crashes are not independent events but are all dependent events. (i.e. one plane crash happening in Miami means a plane crash in Sydney is more or less likely.. because they are in some way linked, all planes have fault engines, all runways are built badly, or that all the airlines will somehow fix all the problems with existing planes in the next 30 days because of this crash etc)

Statistical mind
 
Yes. When I have played the lottery for the lols, I bet on 6 numbers in one 10 number set, all of them over 31 to avoid the players who pick numbers based on birthdays, so that if I win I statistically have the best chance of winning the best share of the winnings.

That's because people don't bet on 6 numbers within the same 10 gap, again thinking it's unlikely that 6 numbers within the 40's or something is any less likely to come up than 6 other random numbers.

Most people think they're pretty clever


Back to airplanes. Let's stop living in the moment for a second. Imagine it is the year 2145 and you are studying ancient plane crash statistics of the 1900s-2000s with your school mates in shiny silver future outfits. You could pick any given incident and make a wager with one of your friends, $25,000 (Obamanian dollars, equivalent of about 5 bucks) that there is not another commercial plane crash within the next 30 days on record. Of course, the odds would be in your favor, and you would probably soon be on your way to buy an oxygen capsule with your winnings.

productionhead is simply way ahead of those of you trapped within the confines of the "box" that is the present, where you all try to alleviate yourselves of the burden of true enlightenment by traveling the path of least resistance, taking comfort in the propaganda that the laws of the universe can be understood by mere men.
 
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Most people think they're pretty clever


Back to airplanes. Let's stop living in the moment for a second. Imagine it is the year 2145 and you are studying ancient plane crash statistics of the 1900s-2000s with your school mates in shiny silver future outfits. You could pick any given incident and make a wager with one of your friends, $25,000 (Obamanian dollars, equivalent of about 5 bucks) that there is not another commercial plane crash within the next 30 days on record. Of course, the odds would be in your favor, and you would probably soon be on your way to buy an oxygen capsule with your winnings.

productionhead is simply way ahead of those of you trapped within the confines of the "box" that is the present, where you all try to alleviate yourselves of the burden of true enlightenment by traveling the path of least resistance, taking comfort in the propaganda that the laws of the universe can be understood by mere men.

A thunderclap under the clear blue sky
All beings on earth open their eyes;
Everything under heaven bows together;
Mount Sumeru leaps up and dances.