Ever fire your entire staff? I just did.

subigo

subigo

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zensix.com
Alternate title for this thread: What's your opinion on foreign tech support workers?

This morning I had three employees all together, today I have none. After doing an audit of my servers I found that two of the guys had been creating free accounts for their friends. You're fired. You too.

And then about an hour ago my main support guy (some of you have probably talked to him in the past, Chris) told me he needed to take off from December 1st until the middle of February, so I told him not to bother coming back... or at least not for what I pay him now.

So I guess I will be doing everything by myself starting on the 1st, which sucks. I've been through a good 25 employees in the past 15 months and it always turns out the same way... they're either lazy, stupid, or shady.

I've refused to use anything other than U.S. workers until now, but the prospect of never sleeping has me thinking about outsourcing. So that's my question... How many of you only go with web hosts with U.S. based support? And more importantly, how many of you would leave a host if they switched?
 


For me it's the quality of the support, not where. I've had a nigerian (i think) support guy from Vonage who cleared the issue up very quickly for me, same with Three phone network.

However, HSBC outsource to india, and they're an absolute pain in the arse.

If you do go over seas, make sure it's to a reputable and clever team, not the cheaper option which piss clients off.

Btw, personally I think you made the wrong call on the last guy (Chris). If he hadn't done anything shady or wrong, but just requesting time off you should have let him and waited for him to come back. Good staff aren't very easy to come by, and I bet it's even harder in the hosting industry.
 
subigo said:
Alternate title for this thread: What's your opinion on foreign tech support workers?

This morning I had three employees all together, today I have none. After doing an audit of my servers I found that two of the guys had been creating free accounts for their friends. You're fired. You too.

And then about an hour ago my main support guy (some of you have probably talked to him in the past, Chris) told me he needed to take off from December 1st until the middle of February, so I told him not to bother coming back... or at least not for what I pay him now.

So I guess I will be doing everything by myself starting on the 1st, which sucks. I've been through a good 25 employees in the past 15 months and it always turns out the same way... they're either lazy, stupid, or shady.

I've refused to use anything other than U.S. workers until now, but the prospect of never sleeping has me thinking about outsourcing. So that's my question... How many of you only go with web hosts with U.S. based support? And more importantly, how many of you would leave a host if they switched?
Click to expand...

i signed up for justhost on a really cheap deal almost a year ago. the fact that all of the customer service reps are incompetent foreigners, i will not be sticking with them once the plan is over
 
I would prefer local guys if I were in your shoes honestly. Look at all the 'alleged' horror stories of stolen databases and such by people who have accounts at Hostgator for example.

Another issue I have is the communication issues. I don't care who they are, they have to be fluent in English or I might have to ask for someone else. It's all about the customer here and you have to think about it while putting yourself in your customer's position: Would you stay with Zensix if they made such changes?
 
I don't really give a shit who responds to my support tickets or where they live, as long as they know what they're doing and can communicate effectively.
 
Especially on the managed side of hosting I think it's imperative that your customer service people can communicate clearly.

I'd imagine I'd be kind of weirded out to see a support ticked get answered in really broken english.

Although as long as the supports good, and people give it a good review I guess it doesn't really matter. Sucks to hear about Chris, he was the shit.
 
Sohan said:
Btw, personally I think you made the wrong call on the last guy (Chris). If he hadn't done anything shady or wrong, but just requesting time off you should have let him and waited for him to come back. Good staff aren't very easy to come by, and I bet it's even harder in the hosting industry.
Click to expand...

The problem is that he was my main level one support guy (sales and support) and I just started to really advertise in a bunch of places (like reddit sponsored links). Chris is one of the main reasons I started advertising... He needed more money for Christmas and told him I could bring in more clients if he could handle it. I wouldn't have even bothered with all this advertising if it wasn't for him.

And then he tells me today that he needs 10 weeks off? And what does he need these 10 weeks for? A trip to Mexico of course. Maybe it's just me, but a one week notice, the day after I launch a bunch of ad campaigns for his benefit, isn't cool. Especially when he knows that it's going to leave me working 24 hour days until I find (and train) more people.
 
Well, here's my take on the situation and since we're in the same industry, I feel we can relate easily.

I have a guy, he speaks English pretty well, but he is a native Spanish speaker. This same guy is quad-lingual. This is great since he not only speaks English, but other languages as well. Now, would I turn down the opportunity because he is foreign? Nope.

Ok, I understand that some non-usa peeps may provide a bad rep and make you not want to hire anyone who isn't an American, but are you going to deny someone employment because they live in the UK? Probably not, because they speak good English.

When it comes down to it, during the interview process, you can pretty much tell if they will be more trouble than help.

As far as employment, we do go through a number of people. Why? Because we demand the highest quality and if you're lazy/not helpful, you're not going to work out or fit in well on our team.

It boils down to knowledge and helpfulness, not nationality.\

As far as 24 hour days, you can only do so many hours before you crash. Sure, it sucks, but this is business. The web hosting industry is the one that never sleeps.

This is why you don't rely on one person to help you succeed in business and expand for their benefit. After all, you will be benefiting since you own the company right?
 
<insert>emp mgmt101 - how to hire and train, and hang onto; happy, productive, and loyal employees </insert>
 
If you're looking at outsourcing, I'd recommend you find another country/region that has English as a defacto language, but just has a shitty economy.
HongKong still has more than enough people from the Empire days, so English is ready to go there, plus you've got only slightly higher than regular Chinese wages. Win-Win.

With that said, I'd still recommend keeping local hires on hand, and just screening them better.
Shady employees get weeded out, but lazy employees means you need to do a better job at motivating them. People will do an insane amount of work for peanuts if they have a sense of loyalty, ownership, or that they owe some kind of debt.
 
I have special interest in this one ;) so I'd say be sure they know English extremely well in case the customer doesn't know the exact lingo for what they need.

Also one of the things that impressed me about your hosting was how your guys would think creatively of a solution to "X" problem instead of most hosts that only do what we ask, but not more. Some foreign cultures avoid sharing creative out-of-the-box solutions due to some kind of "saving face" cultural thing - I guess to be polite. If you go overseas, be sure to brief them fully on Americans' expectation of support staff and acceptance of fresh ideas.
 
Good news, Chris is only taking two weeks off. Thank God. He won't be working as much until February, but I guess he'll have Internet access in Mexico, so he'll work part time.

So don't worry, I won't be outsourcing support on the customer service side at all... Now the admin side, that's a different story...

I thought I was going to give myself a heart attack I was so pissed off.

Edit: There's also a good chance I'll stop taking new clients all together starting December 1st. Then I'll open back up in February when Chris comes back full-time. Unless of course I find a suitable worker before then.
 
Good, I like Chris.

I feel for you though Subigo, not cool to leave you high and dry. But this is what happens with hired help. The best solution, IMO, is to make people a partner and/or give revenue share, but then you have to split the moniez. That's why you should just marry your partner.

Lucky for you, Eric, it's still legal in like one or two states.
 
If it's a full time support gig, yea, you're in a tough spot. College interns would work assuming you have them on a tight leash.

I'm in the same boat. Totally overloaded with support and it's almost impossible to hire someone good and reliable, even for part time.

I think we should sell both our products and start an affiliate community in Amsterdam. I know a dozen guys who would be on the first flight if we did.
 
subigo said:
So that's my question... How many of you only go with web hosts with U.S. based support? And more importantly, how many of you would leave a host if they switched?
Click to expand...

Would make no difference at all to me. As a rule of thumb, contacting the web hosting provider is the absolute last thing I do when I run into problems. It is a last resort for me, because I'm usually worried that they will fuck shit up.
 
Fuck that, I'd've (good contraction) fired his ass too. 1 week for 10 weeks ... If it weren't for how important he is to you, and the other guys leaving, I'd've (again) still considered it when he came back and said 2 weeks.

I'm no hard ass but shit, you've got a business to run.
 
Hmm..
Getting good developers and sysadmins is tough as shit.

If you have a really good guy, you can cut him some slack, but the shit he did would deserve some talking to - but really, fire him for that? I don't think that's necessary.

On the other hand - devs and sysadmins hang around their own folks more often than not. Ask him if he can recommend someone for the company.

::emp::
 
HarveyJ said:
If you're looking at outsourcing, I'd recommend you find another country/region that has English as a defacto language, but just has a shitty economy.
HongKong still has more than enough people from the Empire days, so English is ready to go there, plus you've got only slightly higher than regular Chinese wages. Win-Win.

With that said, I'd still recommend keeping local hires on hand, and just screening them better.
Shady employees get weeded out, but lazy employees means you need to do a better job at motivating them. People will do an insane amount of work for peanuts if they have a sense of loyalty, ownership, or that they owe some kind of debt.
Click to expand...

Hiring workers in Hong Kong that are fluent in English costs about the same as hiring a blue-collar in the US and that is 5x more expensive than hiring someone in China's most expensive city, Shanghai. If I remember correctly, Macdonald workers there were earning around $1000 USD a month.

It is damn hard to hire someone that is helpful.
 
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