How long would you live in Thailand for?

rusvik said:
I just don't like people dying during ordinary events. What I particularly don't like is the fact that Thailand makes a lot of people disregard common sense because it suck you in. You see a Thai dumbass racing 100 kmh on a small scooter round hairpin bends without a helmet and you think that's safe too. Or you see Thais cramming themselves in small clubs with no apparant way out and think that's safe. Or you think brutal mob violence is just a question of not being a smart ass.

Point is, Thailand has massive road fatalities every year, people get shot, stabbed, beaten to death in nightclubs on the regular etc.

It's the same really, for many Thailand just seem like a fairytale where normal rules don't apply and that's where it gets dangerous.
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Agree 100% with what you're saying. I knew one person who died in Santika and another person who was severely injured. So, I get it.

And like I said from the start, it's how it sucks you in. It's the way you learn to deal with mediocrity in every aspect of your life.

How about seeing a motorbike loaded with two parents and three kids ripping down the Sukhumvit in rush hour? Or worse, getting on a motorcycle taxi where the guy has three empty Leo bottles sitting around him as he drives down the sidewalk dodging pedestrians with you hanging on for dear life on the back.

At first it's exciting. Great stories to tell your friends back home about your motorcycle taxi driver laying down his bike and passing out and making you walk the rest of the way. But after awhile, it's not fun anymore. It's just dangerous.

I was just reading in the Bangkok Post that they are making it illegal to drink alcohol inside a vehicle. WTF?!!? Thailand has one of the highest road fatality rates per capita anywhere in the world and it finally dawned on the minister of transportation that not drinking booze in the car might cut down on that a bit?

The best part of the story is I mentioned it to a Thai friend of mine the other day and she responded, "What? We always drink in the car when we drive back to my village from Bangkok. It's too boring to drive 4 or 5 hours if you're not drinking."
 


If you're honestly thinking about moving to Thailand then I want you to do three things.

1). Learn something about the culture and the language
2). Experience the different areas of Thailand (do you prefer mountain side scenery like Chiang Mai - or a hippie in the hills vibe of Pia? Or would you prefer to dive all day in Koh Tao? What about party and diving in Phi Phi? Maybe you like the big cities with a little more western culture like Bangkok? Want to fuck bar girls all day - Patong is for you!)
3). Don't listen to what others on this forum have to say - everybody is different and everybody wants different things. Go and visit and see if you like it and could see yourself living there.

Honestly you can live a great life in Thailand, but if you want to live a western style life, eat western food and talk to western people all day then it's not for you.

Personally I prefer to just travel all over the place instead.
 
Thailand is imo best if you're the sort of person who can be happy with a simple life on an island or in the mountains. Perfect if your idea of happiness is being a scuba instructor or you love taking long hikes in the mountains.

It's also allright if you're a boozehound, since you can party 7 days a week for relatively little.

If you need aesthetic, cultural or intellectual stimulation, then I would reconsider.
 
Is it unrealistic to live in a "westernized area" to be around likeminded people (for the intellectual stimulation) that is relatively close to places with "things to do" (physical hobbies + night stuff)?
 
Delta223 said:
Is it unrealistic to live in a "westernized area" to be around likeminded people (for the intellectual stimulation) that is relatively close to places with "things to do" (physical hobbies + night stuff)?
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It's difficult but not impossible.

They do have some outlets like the British Chamber of Commerce hosts some networking events (even if you aren't British). The US embassy always has a big party for the 4th of July. The Bangkok Trader hosts a monthly networking event.

So, you can meet decent, well-educated expats in Thailand but you do have to put in a little effort.
 
rusvik said:
Thailand is imo best if you're the sort of person who can be happy with a simple life on an island or in the mountains. Perfect if your idea of happiness is being a scuba instructor or you love taking long hikes in the mountains.

It's also allright if you're a boozehound, since you can party 7 days a week for relatively little.

If you need aesthetic, cultural or intellectual stimulation, then I would reconsider.
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If I do end up back there, that is exactly my plan. Do my stuff online and be way far away from the rat race in the tourists areas. Somewhere where there are no massage shops on every corner with girls running after you, "massage, sir, massage" or Indians/Pakistanis trying to sell you suits every 10 yards."
 
I'm going to do the exact opposite and hole up in Suk 11 for a month or two. Looking at The Prime 11 which is hugely overpriced (20-25K for a 40 sqm 1 bedroom), but has the advantage of being exactly opposite Bed and just near Q-Bar. Will be pulling tourist chicks and thai whores to endless after parties :D
 
rusvik said:
I'm going to do the exact opposite and hole up in Suk 11 for a month or two. Looking at The Prime 11 which is hugely overpriced (20-25K for a 40 sqm 1 bedroom), but has the advantage of being exactly opposite Bed and just near Q-Bar. Will be pulling tourist chicks and thai whores to endless after parties :D
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My favorite hotel is the President Solitaire just around the bend after the 7-11 and the Jai Dee Mansion. It's been awhile since I've stayed there but they used to give you a pass for either QBar or Bed (I forget which one) that got you in with no cover charge.
 
usernameistaken said:
Suk 11... yeah thats where the intellectual and smart expats stays.. nice try fellas :D
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Well, if you have something to share, share it.

As far as where to stay if you're not renting an apartment, you could do a lot worse than Soi 11. And like rusvik said, Soi 11 is really sort of a different experience than the rest of lower Suk.

I know many of the business owners on Soi 11 and they're really making an effort to turn soi 11 into a destination unto itself. It's one of the few places I know in Bangkok where Thai and farang business owners work together to improve the area for the benefit of everyone.

And you might be missing the point a bit. I like Suk 11 because it's central. It's one stop from Ploen Chit which is the embassy district and two stops away from Emporium on the BTS line. If you want to meet up with someone in Bangkok, chances are you're only one or two BTS stops away from a central location where people want to meet. Plus you're only one stop away from the main BTS/MRT interchange at Asok.

And if it makes you feel any better, I used to live a block away from the US ambassador's residence and after the red shirt protests I moved about a mile from where Thailand's then PM Abhisit lived (nothing to do with politics, I just wanted to get away from Ratchaprasong after having endured several months of being frisked every night by red shirt thugs who barricaded my neighborhood protesting the government).

Are those neighborhoods more acceptable to you?
 
Your missing my point. People here talk like they have $2 to their name and look for a proper place to stay but end up renting a 25k place in soi11. Thats like talking about a lambo, but buying a used toyota with 24" rims. It just laughable.
Suk 11 is littered with low budget- and sex tourists every night. The only good place in that street is St Moritz, but even that is one of the lower end gentlemen clubs.
There is not a single decent restaurant or nightclub on soi11. Bed supperclub and Qbar are total farang places which most people wont frequent.
Seriously, who wants to live on a street thats overrun with all kinds of scum all the time?
I applaud you that you probably lived on wireless rd and soi 31 if that makes you feel better. Didn't try to piss on your parade, but theres a ton of better areas than suk11 in bangkok. Anyway, to each there own.
 
thefarang said:
I lived there for a few years.

The problem with Thailand is that it sucks you in. Going back to the "real world" gets increasingly difficult the longer you stay unless you find a way to avoid all of the pitfalls of living in a place where people show up at 10pm for a 7pm meeting and blame it on traffic (and then 10 minutes later they slip and admit they took the BTS skytrain).

Besides the women and everything, the real danger is settling for mediocrity. That really started getting to me while I was there. You go to a dive bar that's the size of my living room and have to put up with poor service, demands to buy the staff drinks, etc and the beer isn't any cheaper than it is in a proper sports bar back home.

Or you go to a nice restaurant (with western food) and the staff are horrible. The food is so-so and when the bill comes it's nearly as much as eating at a nice restaurant in the US.

Both the expats and the Thais who hang around westerners are heavily weighted with con-men/women, thieves, liars, and sociopaths. So you tend to accept that friends will f**K you over. Again, you just accept mediocrity in your day to day relationships because the other choice is locking yourself in your room and never going anywhere.

Seriously, I had a good friend who I had known for several years go off the deep end there. He ran out of money and stole some girl's life savings. That was after borrowing money from everyone he could until word got around to how deep in a hole he was. He eventually got deported for overstaying his visa.

Or another friend of mine just recently took a dive out of his apartment building window. He literally only had 20 baht left to his name. In fact, a friend of mine saw him at a food stall ordering noodles about an hour before he jumped and he was short 15 baht that she lent to him.

It just nibbles at you bit by bit until you just start seeing this stuff as normal. You don't even notice it until you get back on a plane and land someplace where common sense and common courtesy mean the same thing you faintly remember them meaning.

But, I still love the place. I just can't take it full-time anymore. It's too much of a grind. It's too depressing.

And no, I'm not just bashing them because I'm a stupid American who expects everyone to be like us. I've lived all over the world. My last passport was starting to look like a phone book it had so many page inserts in there. :-)
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Couldn't have put it better myself. I have lived there off and on for the past decade. Longest stretch was three years.

It just drags you down into a ditch in the end. Granted the chicks are great and the weather is nice but you just never seem to get ahead due to so many distractions.

You have to be a really strong willed person to make it work and even then it ends up feeling hollow and somewhat of a second rate choice.

I am now back in the UK and will only venture back there for long holidays. Trying to work out there with all the power cuts, internet blackouts and other crap just makes it not worth it.

Plus it's no longer as cheap as it used to be, back in 2005 you got 72 Baht to the £ but now you are lucky to get 48 Baht to the £. Add to that the extortionate 150 Baht per withdrawal from a UK account from the ATM's there and you end up wasting heaps.

I'm happier being back in the real world. It just never seems real over there and you are always one step away from bottoming out.

The amount of people I have seen go over there and blow all their cash and get stuck with next to fuck all left to there name is staggering.

Plus you will always be nothing more than a third class citizen. Thai's are pretty racist towards us Farangs. We are good for our cash and that's about it.
 
Delta223 said:
Is it unrealistic to live in a "westernized area" to be around likeminded people (for the intellectual stimulation) that is relatively close to places with "things to do" (physical hobbies + night stuff)?
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Problem with the Westerner areas is they contain a high proportion of losers. Many of the Westerners go there for the endless drinking, drugs, cheap & abundant whores, and no-holds-barred nightlife. Then many of the Thais in these areas are the stupid, lowlife, lazy cunts of society who instead of making an honest living, would prefer to cheat, con, and rob foreigners. That's why they move to those areas. They'll give you lots of sob stories about how they're oh-so-hard-done-by, but don't listen to them, as it's all bullshit that translates into, "I'm a lazy piece of shit who wants everything handed to me". I live in the middle of the swamp called Issan (planning to move shortly though), and trust me, they're just fine. No sympathy needed.

I don't know, what do you want? A never-ending party filled with beautiful women, which after a while dilutes your mind to the point you don't know what's real and what's not? If so, the tourist areas are for you! Definitely worth doing at least once in your life, but wouldn't live there.

Want to settle down, and live more of a normal life? Same as you do now probably. Work, go clubbing every once in a while, go out for dinner with friends, etc.? If so, just travel around Thailand a bunch, and pick a city you like, any city. Pretty near every city has a sizable Westerner population, and the majority have expat areas with some restaurants, bars, etc. There's 7/11s, McDonalds, and Starbucks literally everywhere, if that's what you mean by "westernized".

Pick a city you like, grab a house in a typical Thai neighborhood, settle in, and start learning Thai. Not a tourist or expat area, but a place where normal people are living their normal lives -- raising their families, working hard to advance their careers, and trying to enjoy life while they're at it. And don't worry, if you can afford a small apartment in the expat area of Bangkok, you can afford a nice 4bdrm house in a Thai neighborhood. You'll get to know your neighbors whether you want to or not, as people around here still know & talk to their neighbors (one of the many reasons I enjoy it here).

Then for Westerner friends, it'll probably be tough at first. There's lots of great expats throughout the country that have made Thailand their home, settled down with a wife and kids, etc. You're not going to find these people in the expat areas or girlie bars though. It's more through a friend of a friend, maybe meet online, maybe at a Thai language school (don't know -- never been), etc. There are good people around to hang out with though, have over for a BBQ, they invite you over for a BBQ, etc.
 
usernameistaken said:
Your missing my point. People here talk like they have $2 to their name and look for a proper place to stay but end up renting a 25k place in soi11. Thats like talking about a lambo, but buying a used toyota with 24" rims. It just laughable.
Suk 11 is littered with low budget- and sex tourists every night. The only good place in that street is St Moritz, but even that is one of the lower end gentlemen clubs.
There is not a single decent restaurant or nightclub on soi11. Bed supperclub and Qbar are total farang places which most people wont frequent.
Seriously, who wants to live on a street thats overrun with all kinds of scum all the time?
I applaud you that you probably lived on wireless rd and soi 31 if that makes you feel better. Didn't try to piss on your parade, but theres a ton of better areas than suk11 in bangkok. Anyway, to each there own.
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Better, depending on what you're looking for. :-)

I don't think it's like talking about a Lambo and then buying a Toyota. The two issues being discussed are totally different and can be discussed without any contradiction. It's more like, a car dealer who is knowledgeable about minivans and is capable of discussing sports cars.

Especially when it comes to Thailand where you have to navigate several different worlds all of the time. Just because you stay at the Oriental doesn't mean you can't also discuss living in a shack up in Isaan.

Someone asked a question about meeting intellectually stimulating people but rusvik's objectives are completely different.

That's one of the beauties (to me) of Thailand. It has so many varied experiences.

BTW, I also disagree with you on Soi 11. I think Charlie Brown's has the best Mexican in Bangkok. Zanzibar also has some good food. The Aussie Pub's grub and steaks aren't too bad either. And the Limonello joint a little off of the main soi is decent Italian.

I consider Soi 11 to be a good value. Obviously value is subjective but, for the price I feel like I'm getting more on Soi 11 than most other places in Bangkok. Yes, I could stay at the Mandarin or the Oriental or on Sathorn but for what you pay vs. what you get, I prefer Soi 11.
 
redbyte said:
Plus you will always be nothing more than a third class citizen. Thai's are pretty racist towards us Farangs. We are good for our cash and that's about it.
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This is part of what I was talking about with the delayed or reverse culture shock. When you get to Thailand everybody smiles, everybody fawns over you. You think Thai people think farangs are like gods.

But eventually, you realize they despise us. All of that smiling and shit is because they want your money.

And it's worse if you learn Thai. Because then you can hear how much they loathe you right from their mouths.

My Thai is good enough to get you around town (can order in restaurants, ask for directions, have a basic conversation, etc) but I have several friends who speak it almost fluently. It's difficult to fathom how much crap Thais say about you all the time because they don't think farangs can speak Thai.

My buddy and I were at some bar one night and we were talking to two of the waitresses there. The manager comes over and in Thai tells them to get us to buy more drinks but to not go with us or give us their phone numbers. She said, to just trick us and make us buy more drinks. The most amazing part about it was my friend was speaking in Thai to the girls when the manager came up and interrupted them. She heard him speaking Thai but she's so monumentally stupid she didn't think he would understand.

Another time I was with a girl in a taxi and the taxi driver was trying to pull some bullshit to up the fare. The girl I was with started yelling at him in Thai that he was going the wrong way and not to rip us off. He replied, "Sister, let your brother make some money from the stupid foreigner."

I was in my local bar one night and some guy comes in with a girl that had obviously been on stage riding the chrome pole a few hours earlier. I'm chatting with a friend and we're both talking to the bartender and I decide to buy a round for the three of us. The gogo dancer hears "buy a round" and comes racing across the bar saying, "Me too? Buy me drink too?" I tell her "No, I don't know you and you're already with a guy. Have him buy you a drink."

She walks away in a huff (you know the Thai overly-dramatic huff) and tells the bartender, in Thai, "Fucking cheap farang."

In Thai, I shoot back at her, "Don't think the farang can't speak Thai. I speak it very well. I didn't buy you a drink because you've already sold your body to someone for the night. Go ask your owner for a drink."

She shrank up like testicals in cold water. She slammed back her drink, grabbed her john, and walked out. Even before the door had closed, I got a standing ovation from the Thais who worked there for speaking Thai so well :-)
 
Kiopa_Matt said:
Problem with the Westerner areas is they contain a high proportion of losers. Many of the Westerners go there for the endless drinking, drugs, cheap & abundant whores, and no-holds-barred nightlife. Then many of the Thais in these areas are the stupid, lowlife, lazy cunts of society who instead of making an honest living, would prefer to cheat, con, and rob foreigners. That's why they move to those areas. They'll give you lots of sob stories about how they're oh-so-hard-done-by, but don't listen to them, as it's all bullshit that translates into, "I'm a lazy piece of shit who wants everything handed to me". I live in the middle of the swamp called Issan (planning to move shortly though), and trust me, they're just fine. No sympathy needed.

I don't know, what do you want? A never-ending party filled with beautiful women, which after a while dilutes your mind to the point you don't know what's real and what's not? If so, the tourist areas are for you! Definitely worth doing at least once in your life, but wouldn't live there.

Want to settle down, and live more of a normal life? Same as you do now probably. Work, go clubbing every once in a while, go out for dinner with friends, etc.? If so, just travel around Thailand a bunch, and pick a city you like, any city. Pretty near every city has a sizable Westerner population, and the majority have expat areas with some restaurants, bars, etc. There's 7/11s, McDonalds, and Starbucks literally everywhere, if that's what you mean by "westernized".

Pick a city you like, grab a house in a typical Thai neighborhood, settle in, and start learning Thai. Not a tourist or expat area, but a place where normal people are living their normal lives -- raising their families, working hard to advance their careers, and trying to enjoy life while they're at it. And don't worry, if you can afford a small apartment in the expat area of Bangkok, you can afford a nice 4bdrm house in a Thai neighborhood. You'll get to know your neighbors whether you want to or not, as people around here still know & talk to their neighbors (one of the many reasons I enjoy it here).

Then for Westerner friends, it'll probably be tough at first. There's lots of great expats throughout the country that have made Thailand their home, settled down with a wife and kids, etc. You're not going to find these people in the expat areas or girlie bars though. It's more through a friend of a friend, maybe meet online, maybe at a Thai language school (don't know -- never been), etc. There are good people around to hang out with though, have over for a BBQ, they invite you over for a BBQ, etc.
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I agree with a lot of what you're saying because that is the dilemma. If you need English language to get by, that makes it difficult (if not impossible) to move to Thailand and head straight out into the suburbs. So, you probably have to spend a certain amount of time living in the farang ghettos until you have figured out the language well enough to survive and meet enough people to learn where the western suburbs are.

However, another problem, which I'm sure you probably see where you're at in Isaan, is that a lot of the bar girls end up going back to their villages and it's getting harder and harder to avoid the money grubbing lazy cunts.

I used to head out into the country now and again and it's amazing how many places you can roll into these days and the tattooed up girls start pouring out of every crack and corner.
 
usernameistaken said:
Your missing my point. People here talk like they have $2 to their name and look for a proper place to stay but end up renting a 25k place in soi11. Thats like talking about a lambo, but buying a used toyota with 24" rims. It just laughable.
Suk 11 is littered with low budget- and sex tourists every night. The only good place in that street is St Moritz, but even that is one of the lower end gentlemen clubs.
There is not a single decent restaurant or nightclub on soi11. Bed supperclub and Qbar are total farang places which most people wont frequent.
Seriously, who wants to live on a street thats overrun with all kinds of scum all the time?
I applaud you that you probably lived on wireless rd and soi 31 if that makes you feel better. Didn't try to piss on your parade, but theres a ton of better areas than suk11 in bangkok. Anyway, to each there own.
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Nobody is talking about living permanently in Suk 11. If I were to live for a longer period again in Bangkok, I'd go for Lang Suan, Thong Lor or Phrom Phong around Suk 51-55.
 
thefarang said:
However, another problem, which I'm sure you probably see where you're at in Isaan, is that a lot of the bar girls end up going back to their villages and it's getting harder and harder to avoid the money grubbing lazy cunts.

I used to head out into the country now and again and it's amazing how many places you can roll into these days and the tattooed up girls start pouring out of every crack and corner.
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Ummm, I don't really notice it too much to be honest. I never goto the villages anymore though, as they piss me off. Mothers dragging their kids over to gawk at the white guy, everyone gathers around hoping for a free party on your bill, all the while talking shit about you right in front of you, because they think you don't understand, have no shortage of sob stories, ask for your help but are totally disrespectful when you provide it, they have absolutely no decision making capability whatsoever, etc. Fuck 'em. Just keep the rice and chicken coming, as that's all they're good for.

But yeah, there are lots of lazy cunts with a victim mentality around, and I'm not sure why. I'm guessing Thaksin and the red-shirts instilled an entitlement mindset into everyone up here? (btw... Americans, you think Obama is good at that? He has nothing on Thaksin). You do have to learn how to be firm (with a smile of course), but once you learn the ropes, and learn how to conduct yourself (again, with a smile), then it's fine, and you'll never have any issues whatsoever. Or at least I don't. Then again, doesn't hurt to have a few Thais who'll watch your back for you too. From my experience, lots of Thais will gladly up their price by 20%+ (eg. electrician, food stall, whatever) for a foreigner, but will never spite another Thai in doing it.

All depends who you surround yourself with. There's loads of great, hard working people around, who really don't give a flying fuck about how much you make, and will never ask you for anything. For example, take my neighborhood. By no means rich, but everyone has a nice house, couple vehicles, many are putting a kid or two through uni, going on vacations, one lady just went to the UK, another guy is heading to New York shortly, etc. And these aren't rich Thais. Just typical middle class.

If you want to meet good people, don't hang out in the farang ghettos, or with poverty stricken peasants, that's all. There's a small farang ghetto here with some girlie bars, but you'll never see myself or anyone worth befriending there. That's why it can be hard to find decent expat friends, because you'll never see us in the expat areas. If we go for a few beers, it'll be at one of the local neighborhood drinking holes. If we go out for dinner, it'll be at a decent Thai restaurant, and definitely not an expat restaurant where you're charged triple for mediocre food and half-assed service. If we go for a night out, it's either a house party, or a larger Thai club with live music, but definitely not in the farang ghetto.

Whew, long enough... I could talk forever about this subject. :)

Oh, and one comment about the racism thing. That goes both ways, eh guys? Just look at this thread for an example. If you talked about me like that, I'd think you're a total cunt too. And you guys are talking about the expat areas, where there's loads of tourists who show up, and treat Thais like sub-human pieces of meat that can be bought and sold, so how do you expect them to react?

I can safely say I don't generally experience any racism whatsoever. Sure when I first moved here eyebrows were raised, but once we all got to know each other, it was fine. Same as if you're in a white community, and some immigrant from Jamaica moves in. Granted I'm not treated like a Thai, because well, I'm not Thai (and don't want to be), but I am treated like a very welcomed immigrant, which is the best I can hope for. I'm definitely not treated badly due to my white skin, that's for sure. If I was, I'd leave.
 
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