How to destroy asshats named Caleb...

[geekcognito]

Here's a nice little article that blows your hypothesis out of the water. Hell, read the first line:

WHAT CAUSES MUSCLE SORENESS?

"Your muscles should feel sore on some days after you exercise. If you go out and jog the same two miles at the same pace, day after day, you will never become faster, stronger or have greater endurance. If you stop lifting weights when your muscles start to burn, you won't feel sore on the next day and you will not become stronger. All improvement in any muscle function comes from stressing and recovering. On one day, you go out and exercise hard enough to make your muscles burn during exercise. The burning is a sign that you are damaging your muscles. On the next day, your muscles feel sore because they are damaged and need time to recover. Scientist call this DOMS, delayed onset muscle soreness."

Delayed muscle soreness after exercise: What causes it? - MayoClinic.com

"The exact cause of muscle soreness isn't clear. It may be due to the build up of energy waste products in the muscle. It may also be due to microscopic tears in muscle fibers. If your discomfort is mild, you can continue your exercise program. However, if you have substantial pain with exertion, stop exercising immediately and consult your doctor."



Being TOO sore is never good. But a little soreness after an invigorating workout is certainly not damaging.

By your logic, a muscle can never grow. Which is just plain false.

 

[Laura]

try this one. should give you an idea, because it needs more info than you gave. especially your age and your frame is important.

I just checked that out, and I am underweight for a 'medium frame.' According to their wrist test, I would be considered a 'small frame,' but it seems like 5'11' and 'small' don't really go together well.


Skinny guys shouldn't care about bulking up if it's only for women. There are plenty of girls out there that want a skinny guy (or not). Worry about how you treat women and stuff like that - I can't tell you how much more important that is.

K, this thread is making me feel like a lazy butt today...

Laura :anon.sml:

 

[cyberworkspace]

cyberworkspace, I'm not going to get into some kind of forum argument flame-war with you, but you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Real pain from working out happens when someone overtrains or trains with improper form. Being "sore" is just the introduction of lactic acid into the muscle, a normal bodily function.

Now please don't embarrass yourself with saying that **ALL** types of soreness in the muscles in harmful. The entire medical, sports, and fitness industries disagree with you.

But anyway, it's not worth arguing over. Do what you want to your body. Just keep your misguided information to yourself and don't spread your own misconceptions as fact.

lactic acid ... HAHAHA ... jeez, you are so 90s

lactic acid does even not exist as an acid in the body what you are referring to is lactate. and the myth you are referring to is is, that lactate is causing muscle fatigue by acidifying the blood.

really dude. i don't want to flamewar with you either but you really lack the most fundamental biological knowledge required to have any opinion about body functions at all ... lactic acid good grace. it is called MICROTRAUMA... and as the name suggests it is a bad thing.

 

[geekcognito]

By that site, I'm almost 40 lbs OVERWEIGHT. But that's no surprise. Going by weight/height alone is hardly an accurate indicator. There is never a substitution for an accurate BMI (body mass index). I'm sitting right at about 7 to 9% body fat right now so I can hardly describe myself as "fat."

 

[Laura]

nope. i am sorry, but i am not. every kind of muscle sore is bad for you.

Honestly, this is SO strange to me. I can't imagine not being sore after a good workout. I can't say that I have ever worked out with someone who didn't get sore - and that includes professionals.

Is this anecdotal? Or do you have some corroborating stuff on this? It just seems so odd.

Laura

 

[geekcognito]

lactic acid ... HAHAHA ... jeez, you are so 90s

lactic acid does even not exist as an acid in the body what you are referring to is lactate. and the myth you are referring to is is, that lactate is causing muscle fatigue by acidifying the blood.

really dude. i don't want to flamewar with you either but you really lack the most fundamental biological knowledge required to have any opinion about body functions at all ... lactic acid good grace. it is called MICROTRAUMA... and as the name suggests it is a bad thing.

Jesus, man. Do a quick google search before you put your foot in your mouth.

Lactic Acid Is Not Muscles' Foe, It's Fuel - New York Times

Lactic acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Molecule of the Week - Lactic Acid

"Lactic acid produces the sour taste in that old eggnog, but it also forms when glucose is metabolized during anaerobic exercise such as a brief, intense snowball fight."


At least your rep matches your intelligence.

 

[geekcognito]

Honestly, this is SO strange to me. I can't imagine not being sore after a good workout. I can't say that I have ever worked out with someone who didn't get sore - and that includes professionals.

Is this anecdotal? Or do you have some corroborating stuff on this? It just seems so odd.

Laura

Everything he's said is completely false. I posted some articles that completely debunk his lies. You can find so much more credible information from credible sites if you do a quick search.

 

[drugoon]

the burning muscles sensation (especially the day after) is one of the basic concepts. The pain that is caused by over training is something else. Again there is something I often saw on starters: they over train or they don't train enough. Over training one day on the gym is a good thing but going to gym without proper recovery can bring one down.

Pro bb can be an extreme sport. I like amateur competitions as well for example (there are harder tests for illegal substances I think) and since there is less money involved people don't abuse as much. Regarding getting fat while building mass that differs from one bodybuilder to another imo. I know champions that look "sharp" all the year and other that get more fat... it depends on how they like to look I guess as well as their metabolism

 

[geekcognito]

Pro bb can be an extreme sport. I like amateur competitions as well for example (there are harder tests for illegal substances I think) and since there is less money involved people don't abuse as much. Regarding getting fat while building mass that differs from one bodybuilder to another imo. I know champions that look "sharp" all the year and other that get more fat... it depends on how they like to look I guess as well as their metabolism

True, but I was referring to the more "hardcore" guys that people frequently see on the cover of "Muscle magazines."

 

[cyberworkspace]

thanks for posting the wikipedia article, which totally proves my point you obviously have just read the introductional part and missed out on the section "exercise and lactate" "...and secondly, the acidic form of lactate, lactic acid, cannot be formed under normal circumstances in human tissues."

but i give up. you won. i am not arguing anymore, your overwhelming knowledge has convinced me no need to discuss this matter any further.

 

[geekcognito]

thanks for posting the wikipedia article, which totally proves my point you obviously have just read the introductional part and missed out on the section "exercise and lactate" "...and secondly, the acidic form of lactate, lactic acid, cannot be formed under normal circumstances in human tissues."

Er...yeah. The same article that says this:

"During intense exercise, such as sprinting type activities, when the rate of demand for energy is high, lactate is produced faster than the ability of the tissues to remove it and lactate concentration begins to rise. This is a beneficial process since the regeneration of NAD+ ensures that energy production is maintained and exercise can continue."

And yeah, it's probably best for you to go ahead and leave it alone. According to you, lactic acid doesn't even exist and it's impossible to even grow muscle to begin with.

I'm not posting in this thread to "win" an argument. I'm just making sure that the misinformation that you're posting is being properly debunked.

 

[cyberworkspace]

Honestly, this is SO strange to me. I can't imagine not being sore after a good workout. I can't say that I have ever worked out with someone who didn't get sore - and that includes professionals.

Is this anecdotal? Or do you have some corroborating stuff on this? It just seems so odd.

Laura

if you have any chance to get into a good program with nautilus, you can experience what i mean. is there any medx training center in your city? i have no idea how they would be called in the states, as the franchise i am working with is european only. but as they are american made machines, you must have some training facility that utilizes this training methodology.

just so that this does not get into a language problem: by sore you mean some type of pain wáfterwards, right ? and not just feeling fatigues and powered out?

sore, like feeling a little pain the next day when you move your limbs? well, yes. you can do heavy heavy training without ever having to experience this kind of pain again.

 

[cyberworkspace]

Er...yeah. The same article that says this:

"During intense exercise, such as sprinting type activities, when the rate of demand for energy is high, lactate is produced faster than the ability of the tissues to remove it and lactate concentration begins to rise. This is a beneficial process since the regeneration of NAD+ ensures that energy production is maintained and exercise can continue."

And yeah, it's probably best for you to go ahead and leave it alone. According to you, lactic acid doesn't even exist and it's impossible to even grow muscle to begin with.

I'm not posting in this thread to "win" an argument. I'm just making sure that the misinformation that you're posting is being properly debunked.

don't quote me wrong. i said "lactic acid does not exists in the body".
lactate is NOT lactic acid.

so, please don't start lying.

 

[geekcognito]

don't quote me wrong. i said "lactic acid does not exists in the body".
lactate is NOT lactic acid.

so, please don't start lying.

Goddamn, you're stupid. Did your parents have any kids that lived?

"In animals, L-lactate is constantly produced from pyruvate via the enzymelactate dehydrogenase (LDH) in a process of fermentation during normal metabolism and exercise. It does not increase in concentration until the rate of lactate production exceeds the rate of lactate removal which is governed by a number of factors including: monocarboxylate transporters, concentration and isoform of LDH and oxidative capacity of tissues. The concentration of blood lactate is usually 1-2 mmol/L at rest, but can rise to over 20 mmol/L during intense exertion."


Give it a rest already.

 

[dealasite]

Jon, if you want to gain muscle mass the natural way, go get some protein powder. Intake 1 gram of protein for every pound of body weight daily. (i.e. If you weigh 150lbs, intake 150 grams/day). This is way above the RDA amounts, but works well if you're weight training at least 4 hours/week.

You can't live off protein alone, so make sure you're eating a good diet and getting plenty of calories (and rest). For gaining mass, I'd recommend a diet of 40% carbs, 40% protein, 20% fat. Hire a personal trainer and they will custom make a plan for you.

As for soreness being bad, that's a crock. I've been exercising/training for several years now and being a little sore means you're making progress.

 

[Laura]

if you have any chance to get into a good program with nautilus, you can experience what i mean. is there any medx training center in your city? i have no idea how they would be called in the states, as the franchise i am working with is european only. but as they are american made machines, you must have some training facility that utilizes this training methodology.

just so that this does not get into a language problem: by sore you mean some type of pain wáfterwards, right ? and not just feeling fatigues and powered out?

sore, like feeling a little pain the next day when you move your limbs? well, yes. you can do heavy heavy training without ever having to experience this kind of pain again.

I don't mean like aching joints or anything - I just mean sore muscles. The kind of soreness that has occured for the couple of days after each good workout my entire life. I just can't imagine a good ass kicking without that soreness... I would miss it too much...

I have trained on Nautilus before. I really can't stand going to the gym, though. I'm much more of a you-can-work-out-anywhere kind of girl. I prefer to run or walk. Nothing too crazy, it's just that when you have only 30 minutes to do something, you have to make the most of it!

Laura

 

[geekcognito]

I don't mean like aching joints or anything - I just mean sore muscles. The kind of soreness that has occured for the couple of days after each good workout my entire life. I just can't imagine a good ass kicking without that soreness...

Laura

That's exactly what I'm talking about. It's totally natural to have some soreness in your muscles after an invigorating workout. I have no idea what this guy is talking about. It seems like no matter how many credible references I put up, he refuses to actually read them and realize he's wrong. But whatever. I'm not here to argue with anyone, just make sure that his stupidity isn't taken seriously.

 

[cyberworkspace]

Goddamn, you're stupid. Did your parents have any kids that lived?

"In animals, L-lactate is constantly produced from pyruvate via the enzymelactate dehydrogenase (LDH) in a process of fermentation during normal metabolism and exercise. It does not increase in concentration until the rate of lactate production exceeds the rate of lactate removal which is governed by a number of factors including: monocarboxylate transporters, concentration and isoform of LDH and oxidative capacity of tissues. The concentration of blood lactate is usually 1-2 mmol/L at rest, but can rise to over 20 mmol/L during intense exertion."

Give it a rest already.

hmm. funny. all you are writing about, is lactate.

have you some article containing info about lactic acid? remember? this was about the effects of lactic acid, not lactate

once more for you ignoramus: lactic acid is not produced in the human body. google for some guy named robergs, if you don't believe me. you will probably not understand a single word he is writing about, but at least give it a try. i am not getting paid to teach you prinicples in biochemistry

 

[geekcognito]

hmm. funny. all you are writing about, is lactate.

have you some article containing info about lactic acid? remember? this was about the effects of lactic acid, not lactate

once more for you ignoramus: lactic acid is not produced in the human body. google for some guy named robergs, if you don't believe me. you will probably not understand a single word he is writing about, but at least give it a try. i am not getting paid to teach you prinicples in biochemistry

Here you go, shitforbrains. I posted this article in an earlier post. you just chose to ignore it:

Lactic Acid Is Not Muscles' Foe, It's Fuel - New York Times

"Lactic acid is actually a fuel, not a caustic waste product. Muscles make it deliberately, producing it from glucose, and they burn it to obtain energy. The reason trained athletes can perform so hard and so long is because their intense training causes their muscles to adapt so they more readily and efficiently absorb lactic acid."

Now go get your fucking shine box.

 

[cyberworkspace]

I don't mean like aching joints or anything - I just mean sore muscles. The kind of soreness that has occured for the couple of days after each good workout my entire life. I just can't imagine a good ass kicking without that soreness... I would miss it too much...

I have trained on Nautilus before. I really can't stand going to the gym, though. I'm much more of a you-can-work-out-anywhere kind of girl. I prefer to run or walk. Nothing too crazy, it's just that when you have only 30 minutes to do something, you have to make the most of it!

Laura

yeah, then we mean the same when we talk about sore muscles no, i haven't had this for the last three years and i am working out good twice a week, sometimes three.

i have had it in the beginning of course, because i wanted to really get things moving and constantly overworked myself, with the result of not being able to train properly the next time i was due to train.

but i overcame this, as i was starting to experience far more better results once i realised, that you not only need to be disciplined when it comes to reaching your training limits, but also when it comes to staying within the limits.

so, the nautilus method has definitely helped me a lot. i go for training, work out (in fact so much i can barely walk afterwards) and half an hour to an hour later i am tired but absolutely painless. and so i am the next day, the day after until i start to train again. the secret lies in slow movements, the 90 seconds / 10 repeats rule.

actually, i have even no idea, whether it is called the nautilus method but i call it that way because i have been teached oin nautilus medx machines

i will never ever go back to the methods i used once, because hurting muscles after training is definitely a thing of the past and so yesterday