How to find decent VA's on oDesk

Louey37

Louey37

New member
May 31, 2011
906
10
0
I just wrote this out for a mate, thought you guys might find something useful in it.

NOTE: I'm not claiming to be an expert or anything, this is just what I do and it works for me. If you have something else that works for you, feel free to share it.

NOTE2: I use oDesk because they have a system that takes screen shots of the workers computer at random intervals every 15 minutes and records how much mouse movement and keyboard activity there's been so you can see if how much work they've actually been doing.

------------------

Q: How much is a good hourly rate and how long did it take you to find them? And how do you find someone that's good?

A: You can get a solid VA from the Phillipines for around $3 an hour. Mine took me a little while to find because I wanted something specific but it's worth it.

I highly recommend getting a couple of VA's to focus on different tasks. By doing this, it means you can get someone who's good at one thing specialised rather than getting someone who's kind of good at everything. And seeing as you're only paying them for the hours they work, not the hours they're online, it's not going to cost you any more.

In terms of the hiring process, there are a couple of things I've learned that make it easier. The first couple of job posting I submitted got flooded with spam applications so this how I make sure I get the right people now.

1. Always make the job posting private. If you don't, you get hit with HUNDREDS of spammy applications. If you do decide to make a public posting, make sure you specify that the applicant must include the word --Tennis-- (or soe other generic word) at the top of their application. That way you'll be able to sort the spam from the ones who've actually read the application without having to open every one.

2. When you're searching for contractors to invite to apply for your job, always use the criteria on the right hand side of the search page to narrow down your choices. There are so many contractors on there, you can afford to select the cream of the crop. I always select:
a. Must have 4.5-5 star rating
b. Hourly rate must be between $0 - $5 ($3 an hour is a decent wage in the Philippines)
c. Must be have 100+ hours
d. Must be in the top 10% in relevant tests (not always necessary but helpful)
e. Must be from east Asia (for the Philippines - they get taught in English so you're usually much less likely to have language barriers)

3. Ask for fixed price quotes for anything that can be done fixed price (like article writing)

4. Always insist on a skype interview where you talk to them. You want to make sure they can understand questions very well and reply in English without too many issues

5. Ask for samples

6. Make sure my job posting contains a set of instructions (write 'fish' at the top of your application, address all these points in sequential order) so that I can see how well they follow instructions. If they can't follow simple instructions in teh application then theres a good chance they're going to be a hassle down the road).

7. Look for contractors that have lots of jobs with the same employer (you can see this on their profile). If they're doing lots of little jobs with different employers then it means they're not getting invited back. If they're doing just a few jobs with BIG employers, then there's a good chance they're worth holding onto. (NOTE: Check out the employer to see what their credentials are like. If they've spent over $5k on oDesk then there's a good chance they know what they're talking about.)

8. Look for contractors that only have a few competencies listed on their profile. If they 'specialise' in HEAPS of different areas, there's a good chance they don't specialise in any of them.

9. See if the jobs they've been doing are actually in the area they specialise in. If they're a WordPress programmer and all they've been able to do is data entry, then there's a good chance they aren't any good.

10. Automatically disregard ANYONE who's application seems generic and not written to suit your job posting (ie. Starts with the introduction "Dear Hiring Manager..."). If they can't take the time to write a proper application then they obviously haven't read it and probably aren't perfectly suited.

That's about all I can think of for now. If I come up with anything else or you have any more questions, just let me know.

I can't access any of my old job applications at the moment so I can't post them here but as soon as I can, I'll put one up for you to see what I write.
 


Great post. Based on my experience there are a few things Id add to the mix.

- Use Camtasia video instructions whenever possible. You spending 5 minutes to make a brief video showing exactly what you want done for any complex or ambiguous tasks will help you substantially going forward

- When it comes to VAs for SEO and similar type services, you'll almost always do better getting an individual contractor rather than an agency

One item I'd disagree with you on though, is the tests. In my experience they're absolutely useless. Most they people I've seen with consistent top 10% rankings have been awful, and got those rankings by cheating - ie. check out Chinese contractors, you'll notice that almost all of them have magnificently good test scores, particularly those with agencies. I'd suggest others do as I have, and take a few minutes to actually take a couple of the tests in your own area of expertise. I've found they're far more trivia rather than actual skill testing, and the only skill they actually show is how good someone is as quickly googling answers.

For me, the single biggest factor is the following:
- the number, ans size, of 5 star ratings that actually come with extensive written reviews, that go beyond 'X was great' and have several sentences extolling the contractor's virtues.

One other thing I'd advise. You definitely want to go 4.5 and above, but not all 4.5/6/7/8/9s are the same. Look into the ratings themselves. I am always wary of contractors who have a lot of 4.0-4.9 ratings. What these say to me is that the contractor is somewhat professional, but not particularly good. Most people hiring realize that the rating system heavily effects the livelihood of these outsourced workers, so as long as they communicate and give some sort of effort, most reasonable and kind employers won't go below a 4, even if the work was awful. For that reason, I'd give far higher preference to someone who has a, say, 4.8 rating, with mostly 5s and a couple rogue 1s, rather than someone who has a ton of 4.0-4.9 ratings across the board
 
This is was in an old thread but I've modified the questions some and updated to fit my current needs:

The most important part in finding good employees are a good interview process and your own management skills.

In the interview process on odesk/elance give them these questions. If they are really interested in the job, they will answer and it helps to weed out 75% of the wannabe VA's, not motivated, etc. BEFORE ever interviewing them (time savings). I make it VERY clear in the description that if they do not answer the question, their application will get trashed immediately and follow through on that.

Examples questions when looking for a general VA on oDesk/elance/etc.:

a) Who is the Quarterback for the St. Louis Rams and what is his current TD/INT ratio?
b) Show me the top 3 Google tricks you know and more importantly how you use them?
c) In less then 100 words tell me why you are the RIGHT person for this job?
d) What are your top 5 Wordpress plug ins and why?
e) If I would ask you for 3 wordpress themes that would fit a country western site which would you recommend? How about a fitness site for women? (Please send me to the locations where I can look at them)
f) What is the most important thing to you? What drives you?

Reasons:

a) Lets you see how familiar with American culture they are. While you think this question is no big deal, someone in India or PH with no background about American Football will have NO clue what you are talking about. This will also give you insight into their research capabilities. Will they send you just the starting qb info? Info for all qb's on the roster?
b) This will show you how capable their search skills are. Sometimes they surprise you and show you something you were not aware off.
c) You'll get their level of English, copywriting skills, how bad they want it. It's THEIR advertisement to you.
d) Wordpress skills, plus you get an example on how they think and what they value
e) Wordpress theme skills and it will give you an insight into their design/cultural skills. You'd be surprised what they consider country western/fitness in india/ph
f) Again, English skills but you also learn more about them as a person. What makes them tick etc. etc..

If they are interested in the job and are a real 'hustler' they find answers to all the questions. Their answers will give a huge amount of information about them and you can narrow your list down to the top 5/top 10. From there you start the actual interview to see if you personally mesh with them and find the best 3 VA's for the job. Hire them for a one to two week trial. Usually, from there you'll find one or two individuals you like to work with for an extended amount of time.

Always make sure you have two VA's from different areas available at the same time. Sick days, bad weather (Did you know there was just a major typhoon over there? Check out this pic of one of my VA's neighborhood) , death in the family etc. can be a real killer when you are on a tight deadline. From there, have those two help you to find more VA's for you. Just make sure they are independent from each other so that they don't have the ability to shut your business down etc..

$$ depend from country to country. A decent,DEPENDABLE 'general VA' in PH should run around $250-$300 a month. Throw in some technical skills and good English knowledge and you are looking around $400.

If you are looking for someone to write GOOD articles and ebooks, copy etc. I would ALWAYS look local first. It's not worth the money savings to dick around with some of the most important part of your business. 95% of the time you can tell a non-native writer...

Second big part is how good you are in managing a VA. Are your instructions clear and understandable? Do you know the actual 'work' involved? Have you ever done the same work before yourself? Do you have rough metrics how long a task like this 'should' take? Can you pay by the project or do you do by the hour? Are you instructions clear and understandable? (Yes, it's repeated on purpose). Do you have little camtasia training videos on how EXACTLY your VA is suppose to perform your work? In the beginning, you should spot check their work more frequently and then let go slowly, once comfortable with their output.

I've learned the hard way that most of the time that I have a crappy employee, it's because "I" am a crappy manager and do not give them the proper tools to succeed (Time, education, proper instructions, etc.).

When it comes to pay though, do NOT make the mistake of paying what they are ASKING for. Hardly ever will I pay what a VA asks for. Even with U.S. based VA's I will start at $5 an hour and depending on skill level, aptitude and hustle will raise hourly accordingly. Now remember, if you want LOYAL employees that hustle - PAY THEM A GOOD/GREAT SALARY - IF - they do a good/great job for you. Don't be cheap and remember that if they make YOU money - PAY THEM.

Over the last several years rural areas in the U.S. have come online and brought an American workforce that is smart, educated but has because they are RURAL limited job availability. $10 in L.A. is not valued the same as $10 in rural Wyoming or Mississippi. Plus there are tons of smart, educated stay at home moms out there that want a cool job to keep them busy. You'd be surprised at the talent out there. If you don't act like a douche are honest about your intentions and treat them with respect you can often get a MUCH better deal then is asked for in their original application. Because it's through oDesk they are contractors and you don't have to worry about minimum wage etc. etc.. However, once I find people that hustle and are willing to work... I know I'm repeating myself here - PAY THEM! It's cheaper in the long run and LESS headache having to constantly retrain folks and wasting time interviewing etc..

I'm ALWAYS on the lookout for Pinoy's that have excellent call center and therefore English skills. IF you are doing your interviewing right and get someone that has great aptitude, intelligence and is 'worth a shot' go ahead and hire them as an Intern. Tell them you will train them on their OWN time and then give them SMALL jobs where they can prove what they have learned. Most of the time they will ask for around $2-3 an hour. I will start them at $1.50 but will give them training. Train them in what? Whatever you WANT them to do. It can be anything from Photoshop to SEO... What skills do you need? (Yes, this requires you to know your shit)

Some will run to the next opportunity with their new found skills. Others (IF you train them right and are a decent manager) will be extremely loyal and will work for less even if offered a better job because they have a good thing going and stay for years.

Loyalty, honesty and someone having your back because they really value you... you can't put a price on that...

Hope this helps someone...
 
thx Gertex, great write up.

Care to share some of the jobs, in general, you have your VAs do? No specific tactics or anything, just looking for the best ways to take advantage of having a full time VA.
 
I know this goes against the grain but...........

I use 100% American labor for all of my stuff.

I know that PH/Indian VAs and such are out there, but I spent something along the lines of a hundred hours to find quality people and it always ended up in disaster. Granted, I had 2 or 3 'decent' ones who were working with me, but as the poster above stated, disasters happen..........alot in the Philippines. My three workers are all US college graduates and all know what they're doing. They have smartphones to take/respond to emails I send them, and I'm paying them literally something like 30% more than my PH workers on a per-job basis. Their turnaround times are insane compared to those I've had outside of the US. Sometimes I get jobs that need 24hr turnarounds in 15 minutes or so, just because they want to continue getting work from me. It's hard to believe ,but the unemployment rate in central Ohio is actually higher than the Philippines, so for me it made sense to try, and it has worked good for me.

Not only that, I can go around saying I have two people that I employ on a nearly full time basis (granted they're on 1099s doing contract work). It's worth it to butt into conversations on facebook and say "How many people do YOU employ" when talking about business regulations :)
 
Gertex said:
This is was in an old thread but I've modified the questions some and updated to fit my current needs:

The most important part in finding good employees are a good interview process and your own management skills.

In the interview process on odesk/elance give them these questions. If they are really interested in the job, they will answer and it helps to weed out 75% of the wannabe VA's, not motivated, etc. BEFORE ever interviewing them (time savings). I make it VERY clear in the description that if they do not answer the question, their application will get trashed immediately and follow through on that.

Examples questions when looking for a general VA on oDesk/elance/etc.:

a) Who is the Quarterback for the St. Louis Rams and what is his current TD/INT ratio?
b) Show me the top 3 Google tricks you know and more importantly how you use them?
c) In less then 100 words tell me why you are the RIGHT person for this job?
d) What are your top 5 Wordpress plug ins and why?
e) If I would ask you for 3 wordpress themes that would fit a country western site which would you recommend? How about a fitness site for women? (Please send me to the locations where I can look at them)
f) What is the most important thing to you? What drives you?

Reasons:

a) Lets you see how familiar with American culture they are. While you think this question is no big deal, someone in India or PH with no background about American Football will have NO clue what you are talking about. This will also give you insight into their research capabilities. Will they send you just the starting qb info? Info for all qb's on the roster?
b) This will show you how capable their search skills are. Sometimes they surprise you and show you something you were not aware off.
c) You'll get their level of English, copywriting skills, how bad they want it. It's THEIR advertisement to you.
d) Wordpress skills, plus you get an example on how they think and what they value
e) Wordpress theme skills and it will give you an insight into their design/cultural skills. You'd be surprised what they consider country western/fitness in india/ph
f) Again, English skills but you also learn more about them as a person. What makes them tick etc. etc..

If they are interested in the job and are a real 'hustler' they find answers to all the questions. Their answers will give a huge amount of information about them and you can narrow your list down to the top 5/top 10. From there you start the actual interview to see if you personally mesh with them and find the best 3 VA's for the job. Hire them for a one to two week trial. Usually, from there you'll find one or two individuals you like to work with for an extended amount of time.

Always make sure you have two VA's from different areas available at the same time. Sick days, bad weather (Did you know there was just a major typhoon over there? Check out this pic of one of my VA's neighborhood) , death in the family etc. can be a real killer when you are on a tight deadline. From there, have those two help you to find more VA's for you. Just make sure they are independent from each other so that they don't have the ability to shut your business down etc..

$$ depend from country to country. A decent,DEPENDABLE 'general VA' in PH should run around $250-$300 a month. Throw in some technical skills and good English knowledge and you are looking around $400.

If you are looking for someone to write GOOD articles and ebooks, copy etc. I would ALWAYS look local first. It's not worth the money savings to dick around with some of the most important part of your business. 95% of the time you can tell a non-native writer...

Second big part is how good you are in managing a VA. Are your instructions clear and understandable? Do you know the actual 'work' involved? Have you ever done the same work before yourself? Do you have rough metrics how long a task like this 'should' take? Can you pay by the project or do you do by the hour? Are you instructions clear and understandable? (Yes, it's repeated on purpose). Do you have little camtasia training videos on how EXACTLY your VA is suppose to perform your work? In the beginning, you should spot check their work more frequently and then let go slowly, once comfortable with their output.

I've learned the hard way that most of the time that I have a crappy employee, it's because "I" am a crappy manager and do not give them the proper tools to succeed (Time, education, proper instructions, etc.).

When it comes to pay though, do NOT make the mistake of paying what they are ASKING for. Hardly ever will I pay what a VA asks for. Even with U.S. based VA's I will start at $5 an hour and depending on skill level, aptitude and hustle will raise hourly accordingly. Now remember, if you want LOYAL employees that hustle - PAY THEM A GOOD/GREAT SALARY - IF - they do a good/great job for you. Don't be cheap and remember that if they make YOU money - PAY THEM.

Over the last several years rural areas in the U.S. have come online and brought an American workforce that is smart, educated but has because they are RURAL limited job availability. $10 in L.A. is not valued the same as $10 in rural Wyoming or Mississippi. Plus there are tons of smart, educated stay at home moms out there that want a cool job to keep them busy. You'd be surprised at the talent out there. If you don't act like a douche are honest about your intentions and treat them with respect you can often get a MUCH better deal then is asked for in their original application. Because it's through oDesk they are contractors and you don't have to worry about minimum wage etc. etc.. However, once I find people that hustle and are willing to work... I know I'm repeating myself here - PAY THEM! It's cheaper in the long run and LESS headache having to constantly retrain folks and wasting time interviewing etc..

I'm ALWAYS on the lookout for Pinoy's that have excellent call center and therefore English skills. IF you are doing your interviewing right and get someone that has great aptitude, intelligence and is 'worth a shot' go ahead and hire them as an Intern. Tell them you will train them on their OWN time and then give them SMALL jobs where they can prove what they have learned. Most of the time they will ask for around $2-3 an hour. I will start them at $1.50 but will give them training. Train them in what? Whatever you WANT them to do. It can be anything from Photoshop to SEO... What skills do you need? (Yes, this requires you to know your shit)

Some will run to the next opportunity with their new found skills. Others (IF you train them right and are a decent manager) will be extremely loyal and will work for less even if offered a better job because they have a good thing going and stay for years.

Loyalty, honesty and someone having your back because they really value you... you can't put a price on that...

Hope this helps someone...
Click to expand...


Good stuff Gertex! :food-smiley-002:
 
Louey37 said:
I use oDesk because they have a system that takes screen shots of the workers computer at random intervals every 15 minutes and records how much mouse movement and keyboard activity there's been so you can see if how much work they've actually been doing.
Click to expand...

Fuck that modern slavery. If I wanted someone breathing down my neck, I'd get a 9 to 5. I can't believe people tolerate this kind of shit, but then again, I've never lived in a 3rd world shithole.

When people hire me for a job it's because they trust me and know I'll get them the work as quoted. This is *exactly* why I don't use 3rd party bullshit websites to fish for work.

Never have, never will.

Freelancing can be rough at times, but I would never put myself in a situation where a client could see what I was doing every 15 minutes. I'm a freelancer, not your slave.

Does anyone really want to know what porn videos I've been watching?
 
If I was paying a flat rate for a project, wouldn't care what they were doing with their time as long as the project was delivered on time.

But when I'm paying an hourly rate to work for me, then I expect you to be working on the stuff I need done whilst I'm paying you.

If you're working away and see a nice picture of a horse that gets you man parts all hard, by all means, rub one out, but just don't expect me to pay you to do so.

It's not slavery, it's a business transaction. You want to whack off, that's fine, just do it on your own time.
 
This makes good reading.
I am actually going to be listing my services on here very soon (once I have enough posts) however my service will also have a few added benefits over the usual VA. I'll post a reply once it is in the marketplace so that the people interested in a VA can check it out.
 
I see you guys posting advices on how to find a good freelancer and how to verify him to make sure he won't run with your money. The best advice I can give you as a freelancer is to be very careful with indians and philipinos. They have a very different culture from western areas and you communicate with them 200% of the time but it could still be worthless.

Another advice is to keep in mind this "you get what you pay for". When you expect from him miracles for 1$ he will do the job in a hurry to get rid of you and after that you will wonder why the fuck he is asking 100$ for the same job.

If you want to be a control freak and use stupid softwares like taking screenshots of his desktop, micro-manage or make him a pixel pusher than at least have the decency to pay him accordingly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom