How to scam people using American Express

O

o hai guyz

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Jan 15, 2010
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Every now and then I get people charging back items I already sent them, using the "unauthorized transaction" reason. They always lose after I provide proof that they were sent, but there have been a few times when they won (even after I provided the proof). All the people who won were using American Express. The proof I provided consisted of evidence they had received the items as well as correspondence between the buyers and myself prior to purchase where you can clearly see that they were not unauthorized transactions, sometimes I also had correspondence from after they received the items of them saying they received them, as well as IP addresses used to make the purchases.

So it's obvious that these "unauthorized transaction" chargebacks were coming from people intentionally trying to scam me by providing false information to Amex, yet they still won even after I provided proof that they were scamming.

I have to conclude that Amex just doesn't give a fuck and will accept any chargeback in favor of the buyer while completely ignoring any evidence/proof provided by the seller. I talked to a friend of mine who uses them who said it's easy to scam merchants with Amex because they don't cancel the card after you report fraudulent transactions. If you try to put an unauthorized claim on a Visa, they'll assume it was stolen and issue you a new card, but Amex won't do anything, so you can continue buying things on the same card and charging them back with no inconvenience to yourself whatsoever.

So basically if you want to get some free shit, all you have to do is get an American Express card, buy things, then charge them back. Amex won't cancel the card because they don't care if you're bullshitting or not. Repeat the process to get unlimited free shit, and all you have to pay are your cc fees. It won't matter what evidence the merchant provides because Amex will just ignore it all.

Honestly this shit is ridiculous and I can't believe this company hasn't been shut down yet.
 


Dan_Hostwinds said:
This is absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe AmEx still exists! I never knew their customer service to be so bad.
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It might suck to be a merchant but their customer service from the customer's protective is great. AMEX will take your side when some shady network tries to ring up some bullshit charges or you need a work-around to a problem as an Internet Marketer.

As a business owner who uses his card for advertising, I love my Plum card and the service that comes with it.
 
Be careful accepting payments from credit cards from anywhere. Credit card companies will fight you hand and foot if the card owner complains about the transaction. Worse than paypal for scamming, damn chargebacks.
 
I'm a partner in a merchant processing firm, and also have credit cards being processed in another business. American Express are complete idiots. They will ALWAYS side with their customer, you know why? Cause you are not their customer, your a one in a dozen merchant.

I can safely say this from processing thousands of credit cards since 1998 from my merchant processing company, dealing with the top boys at Amex, and processing with my other companies.

Whatever dispute you give them, they will accept, since they are the 3rd largest, and know less people take Amex than Visa and Mastercard, they are willing to bend over backwards for their customers. So yeah, dude, that scam has been going on for a while now, and there is nothing the merchant's processing company can do, because, the merchant has to deal with Amex directly, and not through their merchant company. I solved this problem for one of my companies by not accepting Amex.

Merchants has the perception that accepting Amex is more expensive than Visa or MasterCard, and that is never the case, in fact it is cheaper to accept Amex. Amex charges one flat rate, the other cards and merchant processing companies can say you are getting charged this rate, but there are 5 additional hidden rate fees along side, that is always equates to being more than Amex. But, the main reason people don't accept Amex, is ignorance, but that ignorance allows them to not get completely fucked by Amex customers who know the game.

My advice, never accept Amex, ever. PM if you want more info, I can talk more freely there.
 
Stop accepting Amex. I did and it hasn't affected business in the slightest. Most people with an Amex also have a Visa.
 
In the former ecommerce business I owned, we did about 225K/month in CC billing... about 75% of that was Visa/MC and the rest was Discover/Amex...

If you don't accept Amex you are an idiot! Sure, their rates are higher and they always side with the consumer, but who gives a fuck! In the grand scheme of things, it's just one of many costs of doing business.

However, if you don't accept them, you are turning away free money. Because people that have Amex, use Amex for the exact reasons stated above.
 
Meatytreats said:
In the former ecommerce business I owned, we did about 225K/month in CC billing... about 75% of that was Visa/MC and the rest was Discover/Amex...

If you don't accept Amex you are an idiot! Sure, their rates are higher and they always side with the consumer, but who gives a fuck! In the grand scheme of things, it's just one of many costs of doing business.

However, if you don't accept them, you are turning away free money. Because people that have Amex, use Amex for the exact reasons stated above.
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Thing about your comment here, you are stating to take a risk, so that of the 25% of people using Amex you processing with, they have the option of stating your billing if fraud, and will get their money back. Are you fucking serious? It's one thing if you are doing thousands of dollars in a services oriented business, but lets say you are selling TV with a 15% mark up, your profit, you want to take the risk that you will lose that merchandise because you want to take Amex, knowing that everyone with Amex can simply charge shit back?

Who gives a fuck? You're insane, you are not thinking about the small business owner, who is barely making a living, and if they get screwed out of $2,000 and the merchandise, they can't meet payroll. Also, you have to realize that chargebacks effect your merchant account. If you go over a certain amount 2% is standard, the merchant processing company, will cancel your account (depending on size of purchases). They have to eat the risk, and you've heard stories of merchant processing companies holding a merchant's money for 180 days or even 2 month? That shit is true, because of crazy shit like this.
 
i ordered a car and it was supposed to be at the dealership in 2 months... it took a little over 6 months... the newer model was coming out in a month... I charged back my deposit... i didnt win... so amex does not always side... I lost 2500 on a car that I don't even have in my possession
 
jsphfcll said:
i ordered a car and it was supposed to be at the dealership in 2 months... it took a little over 6 months... the newer model was coming out in a month... I charged back my deposit... i didnt win... so amex does not always side... I lost 2500 on a car that I don't even have in my possession
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You are not going to win a 6 month old charge... come on. This guy is referring to charges within a reasonable time, 30 days or so. Can go up to 2 months. 6 months later, you are not going to win, common sense. You've had 4-5 months of statements to dispute it. And jeez, it's for a car. Let's be serious.

P.S. were you trolling? Cause I can't tell anymore.
 
+1 Amex Plum. I funnel every purchase and all advertising expenses though my card and their customer service is the best I have ever experienced from a credit card company.
 
o hai guyz said:
Is this actually true? If it is, why do any processors even bother accepting it?
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Processors have the best interest of accepting all credit card, more rate fees. My processing companies takes all credit cards, in fact we encourage it. All the problems will always fall on the burden of the Merchant/Business. That's why they hold people's money when you go over a certain percentage of chargebacks. Now, my business don't accept Amex, cause I know what goes on in the background.

It comes down to risk, If you have profit margins and want to take the additional risk, then do it. Even if you don't, you Visa and Mastercard still side lean towards customers if it is an online transaction, but like state, they will send a new card, with new numbers and all. Amex, makes the shit very easy to screw merchants. It's difficult for customers to dispute a card swipe, since the card has to be physically present, (so rates are lower for card swipes than non card present transactions).

Just my 2 cents from running a merchant processing company and businesses accepting credit cards. Good luck bros.
 
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CCarter said:
Thing about your comment here, you are stating to take a risk, so that of the 25% of people using Amex you processing with, they have the option of stating your billing if fraud, and will get their money back. Are you fucking serious? It's one thing if you are doing thousands of dollars in a services oriented business, but lets say you are selling TV with a 15% mark up, your profit, you want to take the risk that you will lose that merchandise because you want to take Amex, knowing that everyone with Amex can simply charge shit back?

Who gives a fuck? You're insane, you are not thinking about the small business owner, who is barely making a living, and if they get screwed out of $2,000 and the merchandise, they can't meet payroll. Also, you have to realize that chargebacks effect your merchant account. If you go over a certain amount 2% is standard, the merchant processing company, will cancel your account (depending on size of purchases). They have to eat the risk, and you've heard stories of merchant processing companies holding a merchant's money for 180 days or even 2 month? That shit is true, because of crazy shit like this.
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I dont play small fry games... So, I certainly was not willing to give up 300K/year in revenues just because of what "might" happen?

You act like it's the norm for people to screw you with Amex. In my niche, it certainly wasnt the case and if it ever did become a problem, I could remove the option at anytime.

You can run your business any way you want! Personally, I NEVER give a customer a reason not to buy. Especially, if you have a long term business plan and understand what the "true lifetime value" of that customer really is!

You did all the work to get them into your cart and then you're going to give them a VALID reason to leave? Well, to each their own I guess!
 
Meatytreats said:
I dont play small fry games... So, I certainly was not willing to give up 300K/year in revenues just because of what "might" happen?

You act like it's the norm for people to screw you with Amex. In my niche, it certainly wasnt the case and if it ever did become a problem, I could remove the option at anytime.

You can run your business any way you want! Personally, I NEVER give a customer a reason not to buy. Especially, if you have a long term business plan and understand what the "true lifetime value" of that customer really is!

You did all the work to get them into your cart and then you're going to give them a VALID reason to leave? Well, to each their own I guess!
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Hey, every business owner does things differently. From my experience on both sides, everyone that has Amex has a Visa or Mastercard, I've never seen a scenario where this was not true. Not everyone that has a Visa or Mastercard has Amex, this we all can conclude. You're not going to lose massive amounts of revenue because you choose not to take Amex. My processing company's been doing this since 1997, doesn't get anymore long term than that. One of my business partners ran the Mergers and Acquisitions for Chase, and headed it for First Data for over 10 years, We've been in this game a long time. I just gave my 2 cents from experience on both sides of the aisle. Again, you chose your way I chose mine, I gave advice to someone looking for advice. Good luck bros.
 
A friend of mine from Amex commented on this once. He said it does happen but after your first charge back, they scrutinize your account on future charges.

I can't verify his claims but I have AMEX myself and love it. Only credit card company I can easily get someone on the phone that has the ability to help me with most issues I encounter. I have never charged back though.

The only thing I don't like about AMEX is 1/10 merchants I deal with don't accept AMEX
 
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