Idiot Libs Pray To Obama

In my opinion, the most important kind of intelligence is the type of person who is always questioning things and deeply examines "both sides" of the story. Anyone who does that when it comes to religion, would have there bullshit radar going off.

Have you ever thought about the possibility that we know maybe 1/1,000,000 of everything the universe is? Bringing up an old cliche argument, if 500 years ago you said in the future we'll send men up to space in rockets, they would have thought you were a madman for claiming "godlike" powers such as that.

You can't possibly rule out the fact that maybe there is shit we have no clue about. Is there nothing after death? Maybe. We can't find out because we can't physically talk to anybody that has died. If I said '100 years from now, we'll be able to completely stop physical and mental aging, unlock our brains full potential, and discover exactly how the Universe is structured.' Sounds absurd. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. I can't prove that it will happen, but you can't prove that it won't - you can only prove that it isn't.

So what's the point and what argument could I possibly have using a bunch of "maybes" and "what ifs"...after all they're useless if you want to actually prove anything. The point (to me) is that while these things may not be true at all, they can help a person psychologically. Maybe if someone is going through a hard time and thinks God will be with them to get them through it, they'll have a more positive outlook on it. Hell, that's how it is with me. Sure there's a chance God might exist, but is it hurting me or anyone else to believe so? Nope, only helping.

The point is you can still be intelligent, think about both sides, and still sanely come to the conclusion that you do believe there's something greater than you out there.
 


^^Oh and the fact that you're generalizing religion and comparing it to being a child truly shows how ironically childish you are.
 
Jeebus Crizz-i-st. Can we drop the fucking religion and politics here on WF. Motherfuck..... WHo gives a rats ass! Somebody needs to post some tits.
 
This is yet another political thread and so far there are no fat bitch/saggy tit pics posted...
 
Have you ever thought about the possibility that we know maybe 1/1,000,000 of everything the universe is? Bringing up an old cliche argument, if 500 years ago you said in the future we'll send men up to space in rockets, they would have thought you were a madman for claiming "godlike" powers such as that.

You can't possibly rule out the fact that maybe there is shit we have no clue about. Is there nothing after death? Maybe. We can't find out because we can't physically talk to anybody that has died. If I said '100 years from now, we'll be able to completely stop physical and mental aging, unlock our brains full potential, and discover exactly how the Universe is structured.' Sounds absurd. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. I can't prove that it will happen, but you can't prove that it won't - you can only prove that it isn't.

So what's the point and what argument could I possibly have using a bunch of "maybes" and "what ifs"...

Yes I agree with most of that. I am saying that organized religion is a joke. If you're Muslim, than every other religion out there is wrong. Same thing goes for any religion. Christians look at other religions that believe in more than one god and think... wow those people are so wrong, how can they believe that crap? Religious people look at other religions and think there foolish, when the truth is there is no fucking proof on either side.

If theirs no proof, then why do you believe in it? I'm not on the side of religion or science. I have no fucking clue. No one does. So why do people believe in one thing or the other when there's not enough proof to draw conclusions.

As far as higher power goes, yeah it's a maybe and I'm not ruling it out. But I would never believe in specifics that the bible talks about. All those stories in there are so fucking bullshit it makes me sick. Turning water into whine, parting the red sea, noahs arc, and all those stupid fucking stories about this one guy and theirs no proof to back anything up.
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD9f0XU_S78"]YouTube - Religion Comes From Ancient Astrology and Sun Worship 1 of 3[/ame]

These vids explain a lot.
 
If theirs no proof, then why do you believe in it? I'm not on the side of religion or science. I have no fucking clue. No one does. So why do people believe in one thing or the other when there's not enough proof to draw conclusions.

Because even though it may not be real or true, it's helped me. It's actually helped me a hell of a lot. And if it's not hurting anybody else, I have no logical reason to believe anything else.

I myself strongly disagree with most forms of organized religion. I think religion is a deeply individual experience. I was raised a Christian, but of course I questioned things and still do...the choice to still remain a Christian was mine.

As far as higher power goes, yeah it's a maybe and I'm not ruling it out. But I would never believe in specifics that the bible talks about. All those stories in there are so fucking bullshit it makes me sick. Turning water into whine, parting the red sea, noahs arc, and all those stupid fucking stories about this one guy and theirs no proof to back anything up.

Although the Bible is the supposed Word of God, it was written by men. I have extremely hard time believing that man didn't manipulate and embellish things, and it makes no sense why God would be there to write it all down a few thousand years ago, but not now (after all we know that the Universe is billions of years old).

This is all pointless banter anyway. I can't say "stop generalizing religion", because a majority of religious followers are non-intellectual and won't open their mind to question the fact that maybe it's not all how a bunch of primitive disciples, prophets, muhammads, and buddahs wrote it down long ago before we knew all we know about science.

But I can say that believing in a form of religion does not rule out intelligence and intellect in a person. It's a stale mate in argument. Science is true, science shows no literal proof of religion, but science (as we know it) may also be extremely elementary to us right now. There's no way to tell because we haven't yet discovered "what's left" to discover. But we do know there is plenty we don't know.
 
If theirs no proof, then why do you believe in it? I'm not on the side of religion or science. I have no fucking clue. No one does. So why do people believe in one thing or the other when there's not enough proof to draw conclusions.

Not that I have much anymore, but to answer your question people will believe in things without proof because of FAITH. What is the point of religion, organized or not, without faith? If you could prove God existed then it would cease being religion and become science. Trying to reconcile proof and fact against religion is completely missing the point.

Although the Bible is the supposed Word of God, it was written by men. I have extremely hard time believing that man didn't manipulate and embellish things, and it makes no sense why God would be there to write it all down a few thousand years ago, but not now (after all we know that the Universe is billions of years old).

Yeah like God doesn't have better shit to do than re-dictate what he already had others write down in the past. He's God, he probably has an XBox 360, PS3, and a Wii! That stuff didn't exist in a few thousand years back so his only form of entertainment was to speak through burning bushes and turn water to wine.
 
Because even though it may not be real or true, it's helped me. It's actually helped me a hell of a lot. And if it's not hurting anybody else, I have no logical reason to believe anything else.

I myself strongly disagree with most forms of organized religion. I think religion is a deeply individual experience. I was raised a Christian, but of course I questioned things and still do...the choice to still remain a Christian was mine.



Although the Bible is the supposed Word of God, it was written by men. I have extremely hard time believing that man didn't manipulate and embellish things, and it makes no sense why God would be there to write it all down a few thousand years ago, but not now (after all we know that the Universe is billions of years old).

This is all pointless banter anyway. I can't say "stop generalizing religion", because a majority of religious followers are non-intellectual and won't open their mind to question the fact that maybe it's not all how a bunch of primitive disciples, prophets, muhammads, and buddahs wrote it down long ago before we knew all we know about science.

But I can say that believing in a form of religion does not rule out intelligence and intellect in a person. It's a stale mate in argument. Science is true, science shows no literal proof of religion, but science (as we know it) may also be extremely elementary to us right now. There's no way to tell because we haven't yet discovered "what's left" to discover. But we do know there is plenty we don't know.

....Rock on Super #Nova. The issue is that there are zealot religionists and atheists in both camps. Honestly, if you want some fairly engaging discussion on these kinds of topics you should check out some of these "debates" on PhysicsForum.com.

The problem is that alot of discussions boil down to the close-minded extremists on both sides yelling "my God hates <insert random social group>: gays/blacks/feminists/democrats/republicans" and the people on the extreme yelling "you secularly-spiritual folks are crazy for believing in <insert random personal faith>...." and both yelling I have "FACTS" on my side!

The scary part is how very much alike they both end up sounding. I honestly believe Einstein was one of the greatest scientists of all time because of his intellectual humility and I quote his statement above because it really does say it all:

Albert Einstein: Idea of a Personal God is Childlike
I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.

- Albert Einstein to Guy H. Raner Jr., Sept. 28, 1949, quoted by Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic magazine, Vol. 5, No. 2





Faith and science are by no means diametrically opposed and anyone who suggests this needs to inquire more. I can point to a gazillion peer-reviewed NON RELIGION AFFILIATED studies conducted by legit scientists that would cause any rational, logical person to at least be open to the simple notion that the mysteries of life cannot be explained adequately by our traditional notions.


A nobel laureate and several Ivy League Professors discuss some of these ideas wonderfully:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smPvHGJEKzw"]YouTube - World Science Festival 2008: Faith and Science (Excerpt)[/ame]

Honest, I think every human being has a right to their own personal beliefs. The thing that just frustrates the bloody hell out of me is when others try to convince those with opposing views how right or wrong they are. Beliefs by definition are neurological thought patterns for which each of us have an emotional attachment. We all know that on a fundamental level emotions cannot be rationalized as they occur more so in the right part of the brain than the left/analytical part.

When can we get to a point where everyone accepts the validity of other human beings' beliefs and focus on commonalities vs. differences. Actually I have come to a conclusion that childhood indoctrination/programming and/or traumatic experiences have alot to do with those who so violently hate people who have disparate opinions - IMHO....
 
im a spritiual agnostic, however lately ive become curious about the bible as i have matured. i believe the bible was changed many times and what is most commonly used is not very accurate. i went looking for the best english translation of the bible scriptures and found this one: ISR Publications

its the truest english bible that exists...

thought some may hold interest in this due to where the discussion turned.

id like to add, the real name of "jesus christ" is yahushua
and the real name of god/lord is yahweh
 
I pray , and I would like to think that I'm not a idiot or below average intelligence.

Heck , there has been quite a bit of research into whether prayer works or not, and every study I've seen done says it does work. Even if it's a placebo effect ,it was proven to work the MAJORITY of instances when people prayed for a certain event to take place.

Fucking hilarious, if something is equal to the placebo then that proves that it doesn't work...

As for studies?
No Prayer Prescription: Scientific American
1800 people studied, and that one was paid for by the Templeton Foundation.
 
In fairness, the request from Turbo is a little absurd to expect a major scientific study on prayer. This is not the kind of thing that is going to get studied by non-theological universities & certainly there's a bias with scientific or biblical studies.

If there a magical communication line to a god that can heal then it would behoove the medical community to know about it, yes? That first link of mine was a pretty sound study with a decent sample size. And in fairness, I was responding to a question about what research I would find legit and that, across the board, is the kind of study you want to see. If it's not even plausible in theory then maybe we should really examine the ridiculousness of the question.
 
Honest, I think every human being has a right to their own personal beliefs...


Or not.

When can we get to a point where everyone accepts the validity of other human beings' beliefs...

No. That's like giving up on humanity and I know you aren't prepared to do that. Just by getting involved in this debate it shows that you aren't willing to just accept other people's beliefs, which is a good thing.

The problem is not what is believed, but belief itself.

Be it believing in God, no god, free market economics, your perception of reality or the tooth fairy, it's a closed-minded position with little room to manoeuvre in light of new evidence.

To quote a slightly less distinguished source than Einstein:

I just think it's better to have an idea. You can change an idea; changing a belief is trickier. People die for it, people kill for it.
 
From the LewRockwell.com blog, the best libertarian website in the world.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWvIOPiKFrs]YouTube - Jesus Camp Bush Worship[/ame]



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z199q-sZr4Y]YouTube - Children Singing Praises To President Nixon In 1972[/ame]