Ineptocracy - Sad but True!

[Unarmed Gunman]

The state of Vermont is top 5 for lowest unemployment and usually first or second for lowest crime rates.

Red States Have Higher Crime Rates Than Blue States - Smart Politics

Look at the crime rates by city, not by state. Every city with high crime and shitty education is overwhelmingly liberal. Some of those cities are in "red states", but the crime infested, poverty stricken areas with high teen pregnancy, illiteracy, and all the other shit that goes along with it are overwhelmingly liberal.

I'm sure that's just a coincidence though, right?

This term did not exist 3 years ago. No one was calling bankers "job creators".

"Job creators" doesn't refer to bankers, it refers to small business owners which are the people overwhelmingly affected by these tax increases. They are called job creators because they create jobs. Surprisingly enough, poor people do not generally create jobs.

 

[barman]

"Job creators" doesn't refer to bankers, it refers to small business owners which are the people overwhelmingly affected by these tax increases. They are called job creators because they create jobs. Surprisingly enough, poor people do not generally create jobs.

I feel like the policies pushed by Republicans are meant to benefit big, multi-national corporations much much more than small businesses.

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

I feel like the policies pushed by Republicans are meant to benefit big, multi-national corporations much much more than small businesses.

The policies pushed by both parties are whatever the lobbyists tell them to push. Small businesses get less love than the large multinationals because they have less money to lobby with. Poor people have unions and other special interests to lobby for them, not because they give a fuck about poor people, but because more government programs mean more government jobs needed to administer those programs. They actually have an incentive to keep people poor for their own job security.

Both parties are full of shit but for different reasons. The difference though is businesses actually do create jobs, whereas handouts just create dependent people that can't take care of themselves.

When you really look at the outcome of the policies you'll realize just how discriminatory and sometimes flat out racist most liberal policies are. The entire liberal ideology is based around telling certain groups of people that they are not capable of doing well on their own. They ingrain that shit in people from an early age that the only way they can make it in life is with help from the government, but all it does is create dependence.

It's very simple. If one man is offering to teach you to fish and another man is offering to give you a fish, who is doing you more harm? It can be tempting to take the easy way out but if you never learn to fish you have to keep going back to the other man to give you a fish everyday, which means you are essentially his slave for life.

 

[dreamache]

When you really look at the outcome of the policies you'll realize just how discriminatory and sometimes flat out racist most liberal policies are.

The biggest example being affirmative action.

 

[rm@tag]

The policies pushed by both parties are whatever the lobbyists tell them to push. Small businesses get less love than the large multinationals because they have less money to lobby with. Poor people have unions and other special interests to lobby for them, not because they give a fuck about poor people, but because more government programs mean more government jobs needed to administer those programs. They actually have an incentive to keep people poor for their own job security.

That's a mindfuck right there, haha.

The only people who have been running the scene are:
Global Banking Elite puppets dressed as conservatives
Global Banking Elite puppets dressed as liberals

^^

 

[Moxie]

True!!! It's the same here with Detroit's southern cousin...New Orleans. The exact same legacy of failed liberal policies.

Any policies that are specific to New Orleans? Food stamps and section 8 housing, for example, are federal policies that apply the same to people in Berkeley California or any other town in the nation. Louisiana has a republican governor and state legislature.

Look at the crime rates by city, not by state.

State governments arguably have more influence over people than city ones, so they can't be ignored if we are looking for correlations.

Every city with high crime and shitty education is overwhelmingly liberal.

Oklahoma City and Tulsa are top 20 crime cities. Every county in Oklahoma overwhelmingly voted for McCain.

Another exception would be : Alaska Progress Report: Anchorage fifth most dangerous city in US


Also, the rural conservative areas of the US would still have much higher crime and such in comparison to many of the big liberal cities in other parts of the planet. Crime rates are very low throughout many entire nations that are much more liberal than anywhere in the US.

The entire liberal ideology is based around telling certain groups of people that they are not capable of doing well on their own. They ingrain that shit in people from an early age that the only way they can make it in life is with help from the government, but all it does is create dependence.

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

State governments arguably have more influence over people than city ones, so they can't be ignored if we are looking for correlations.

Michigan has had Democrat and Republican governors, yet that hasn't had any effect on the downward spiral of Detroit. The only constant in the city has been 100% liberal leadership in the city for over 40 years.

Oklahoma City and Tulsa are top 20 crime cities. Every county in Oklahoma overwhelmingly voted for McCain.

Wow, 2 out of the top 20 have Republican Mayors. I looked at the rest of the top 100 most dangerous cities and saw 4 or 5 more too. So I guess we could modify my statement to say only "90%+ of the most dangerous cities in America are overwhelmingly liberal". Not sure how that helps your point. Actually, I'm not sure if you actually have a point.

...All of your pics...

I'm not a Republican, so I'm not really sure how to respond to a collection of people I despise. I'll try though - Fuck Clinton, Fuck Bush, Fuck Obama and Fuck Romney. I honestly don't understand your point though.

Perhaps you could help me understand how liberal policies help people escape poverty, so I can actually respond to something. My argument is that liberal policies are inherently racist and they ensnare people and trap them into a life of poverty and crime. Feel free to present evidence to the contrary.

 

[lukep]

The way I see it, BOTH liberal and conservative policies are flawed.

They were DESIGNED to be flawed... Leading to political parties like the Democrats and the GOP.

...Both puppets of distraction, keeping the masses away from seeing what's going on behind the curtain.

Like others have said, there is no left vs right, only liberty vs tyranny.

 

[Moxie]

Actually, I'm not sure if you actually have a point.

I responded because you said the Detroit "experiment" produced "conclusive results." This is almost the flip side to the guy suggesting that a free market in itself leads to orangutang rape.

Conclusions like these are all or some of the following :

Your logical fallacy is false cause
Your logical fallacy is black-or-white
Your logical fallacy is anecdotal
Your logical fallacy is the texas sharpshooter

Perhaps you could help me understand how liberal policies help people escape poverty,

Your logical fallacy is strawman :1bluewinky:

My argument is that liberal policies are inherently racist and they ensnare people and trap them into a life of poverty and crime. Feel free to present evidence to the contrary.

The burden of proof would be on you, but "liberal policies" are in play from Iceland to Japan and few people in those places live a life of poverty or crime, so methinks there are plenty of other variables that go into why someone ends up living like that.

US violent crime way down since 1992 and this carries over to most US cities. How about Detroit?

"Crime in Detroit, Michigan has decreased significantly since the 1970s"

Crime in Detroit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Conclusive results that the liberal city policies lower crime?


Poverty Highest in Rural America, Rising in Recession | Daily Yonder | Keep It Rural

Conclusive results that conservative policies trap people in a life of poverty? :food-smiley-010:

 

[mattseh]

libertard detected

Why do you think charities can manage themselves better than free enterprise? Who do you think got more donations from the military than anyone else?

Are you saying that retarded charity CEOs can allocate capital better than you? If yes, then give them your capital. For other people that are good at math, be more selective.

Don't make me lobby away your foodstamps

I think people who ask others to donate or volunteer are far more greedy fucks in that they tell you how to live your life.

Pursue your own interests.

1. Not American, so quite possibly a libtertard (like most of the rest of the world?) by your definition.

2. For many aims and objectives, yes, giving money to a charity is more effective than me trying to spend my time solving the problem. There's lots of things I have no idea about. Saving injured animals, cancer research, emergency aid to remote natural disasters. As above, I'm not American, so don't care about Ron Paul.

3. I like to think I'm ok at math.

4. I'm not on welfare, sorry.

5. The only person I've ever asked to donate to charity was kingofsp, in lieu of a payment to myself for work done. Or could you point out where I said that anyone should give to charity because I said so? Or are you just upset that I've judged you and you don't like how you feel when you reflect on yourself?

6. Thanks, I will continue to.

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

This is almost the flip side to the guy suggesting that a free market in itself leads to orangutang rape.

???

Detroit is the only major US city that I know of which has had an uninterrupted flow of Democratic leaders and liberal policy in the US for almost half a century. During that time, it has also seen the largest downward spiral in quality of life, drop in literacy numbers, increase in crime, increase in dropout rate, increase in teen pregnancy, dependency on social programs etc, etc, etc - it's very hard not to draw some conclusions from that.

From a purely logical argument, you can never isolate all variables in a real world setting, but Detroit is probably as close as we have seen in the US. The reason I have limited myself to the US is because I understand US culture, I don't understand Japanese or Icelandic culture, so I can speak intelligently about what their version of liberal policy is or why it might work or not work in their culture. But here, in Murka - that shit has a proven track record and it ain't good.

"Crime in Detroit, Michigan has decreased significantly since the 1970s"

Crime in Detroit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Conclusive results that the liberal city policies lower crime?

Compare that to incarceration rates and you'll have your answer for the decrease in crime. I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to have figured that one out on your own.

The way I see it, BOTH liberal and conservative policies are flawed.

They were DESIGNED to be flawed... Leading to political parties like the Democrats and the GOP.

...Both puppets of distraction, keeping the masses away from seeing what's going on behind the curtain.

Like others have said, there is no left vs right, only liberty vs tyranny.

I agree with that for the most part, you know I'm a Ron Paul guy. I'm certainly not making an argument for Republican policies, the Republican Party is corrupt to the core, we already know that. That's just not the point I was making in this thread.

I'm simply pointing out the inherently racist, socially destructive nature of liberal policies here in the US, because most liberals actually think their policies are the exact opposite of that.

 

[Moxie]

Detroit is the only major US city that I know of which has had an uninterrupted flow of Democratic leaders and liberal policy in the US for almost half a century.

San Francisco? Portland, Oregon?

During that time, it has also seen the largest downward spiral in quality of life, drop in literacy numbers, increase in crime, increase in dropout rate, increase in teen pregnancy, dependency on social programs etc, etc, etc -

Pregnancy Rates and Estimated Female Population, City Of Detroit Health Department District

Detroit teen pregnancy rate has been nearly cut in half since 1990. Praise due to the mayors and town council members of Detroit?

It looks like Detroit area unemployment was down to 3% in 2000. Were you championing the local government at that time? The rise after 2008 coincides with the US/worldwide recession and US auto sales drop. Did the Detroit mayor cause that by raising the school budget or something?

But here, in Murka - that shit has a proven track record and it ain't good.

I'm not sure what has been proven, but Detroit isn't the only "liberal" part of Murka. It includes Vermont, Cambridge Mass., etc.

Compare that to incarceration rates and you'll have your answer for the decrease in crime. I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to have figured that one out on your own.

"A 1993 report by the National Academy of Sciences commissioned by the DOJ under Reagan noted that the average prison time per violent offense tripled between 1975 and 1989, without any appreciable effect on the level of violent crime.

William Spelman reviewed several of the leading studies on the relationship between crime and incarceration in the U.S. and concluded that only about one quarter of the drop in violent crime over the previous twenty-five years could be attributed to the prison buildup."

Zuma's Commentary on Justice: Mass Incarceration Does Not Reduce Crime

 

[lschmidt]

If the people least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing...

...then why can't the people are are most capable of leading and most capable of producing do something about it?

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

snip

Do you not understand what 40+ years means? It means you can't grab a small piece of data over a few years to discount the overall trend. Go back 40 years, compare to now. Now compare that to other cities over the same time period.

Dude I know you just like to play the role of contrarian, but you need to tighten up your reading comprehension.

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

Moxie, by your logic the 1927 Yankees must have really sucked since they lost 4 games in a row. Hell they even got swept by the Indians so they couldn't have been very good.

You can't take a snapshot in time, you have to look at the total result. Otherwise you can find statistics to prove any point you want to make.

 

[lukep]

I agree with that for the most part, you know I'm a Ron Paul guy. I'm certainly not making an argument for Republican policies, the Republican Party is corrupt to the core, we already know that. That's just not the point I was making in this thread.

I'm simply pointing out the inherently racist, socially destructive nature of liberal policies here in the US, because most liberals actually think their policies are the exact opposite of that.

The next step is to see the bigger picture though and put stupid liberal policies in the same flawed boat as the stupid neoconservative policies, all as if they were the same sin, which they are.

The only difference between stupid liberal policies & stupid neoconservative policies can be seen when you care about the difference between them, which you shouldn't. They're all the same, just strawman shit made to distract you from the real tyranny going on out there, like the daily stripping of our rights and raping of the constitution, by whoever is in charge for the day.

You've been brought up in a place where nearly every educated person has "reason" to be upset at the liberal leadership... However now that you're a Libertarian and can see the real tyranny in the system, wouldn't it make more sense for you to just dismiss the "liberal-ness" of the bad leaders there as nothing more than a symptom of our current problem with tyranny?

If the people least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing...

...then why can't the people are are most capable of leading and most capable of producing do something about it?

Because we all left...?

Uncle sam got too greedy.

 

[Moxie]

Do you not understand what 40+ years means? It means you can't grab a small piece of data over a few years to discount the overall trend. Go back 40 years, compare to now. Now compare that to other cities over the same time period.

Compare what? The Detroit crime rate has gone down over the past 40 years. Teen pregnancy has gone down over at least the last 20. You are welcome to link to numbers for anything else that goes back further.

Just how much can a local government do to influence people's actions? I thought it was a liberal concept to blame "the man" for committing a crime or not graduating school?

Dude I know you just like to play the role of contrarian, but you need to tighten up your reading comprehension.

Dude you are the one playing contrarian to the complexity of the world, even ignoring something like major changes to the worldwide auto industry, in an apparent effort to scapegoat all the problems of an area onto the local liberal politicians.

Moxie, by your logic the 1927 Yankees must have really sucked since they lost 4 games in a row. Hell they even got swept by the Indians so they couldn't have been very good.

You can't take a snapshot in time, you have to look at the total result. Otherwise you can find statistics to prove any point you want to make.

This is what you are doing. The entire political history of Detroit is a small geographically limited sample in comparison to the whole country and world.

By your logic the Yankees coach was the main reason they lost any games they did.

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

Detroit has the highest violent crime rate in the US
Detroit has the lowest graduation rate in the US
Nearly half of the adults in Detroit are functionally illiterate
Almost 1 in 4 pregnancies in Detroit is to a teen mother

I could go on, but it's probably pointless. If crime rates go down across the country, yet Detroit is still the worst, how is that an improvement? Just because everyone is locked up doesn't mean the underlying social problems went away. The fact that teen pregnancy rates go down across the country thanks to better access to birth control, doesn't mean 1 in 4 pregnancies to a teen mother is an improvement.

I have to be honest though, this is the first time I've ever had to convince somebody how bad Detroit is. You can't blame it on the recent downturn in the auto industry either - these problems go back decades through booms and busts in the economic cycle, and through democrat and republican Presidents and Governors. The only constant is the leadership in the city.

If you don't think these problems are the result of almost half a century of liberal policies, that's fine. But as someone that has spent 37 years in and around Detroit, maybe I've seen a little more of it than you have. I also believe that you can't fix a problem until you admit there is a problem, so when people like you point the blame everywhere else it irks me. I see it all the time out of local leaders in Detroit while the city just rots away. I guess the good news is pretty soon we won't have any crime since there won't be anybody left.

@lukep - yes the neocons are fucking horrible. We're discussing local politics and the effect of social policies on the poor. The Neocons aren't nearly as relevant on local issues.

If you still want to argue about this shit Moxie it's going to have to wait because I've got better shit to do than throw statistics back and forth with you. Keep believing what you want, I'll never change your mind and I'm OK with that.

 

[lwbco]

itt, i was unpleasantly reminded of the soul-crushing feeling of being in detroit

 

[Moxie]

If crime rates go down across the country, yet Detroit is still the worst, how is that an improvement?

Your logical fallacy is special pleading

improvement - definition of improvement by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

The fact that teen pregnancy rates go down across the country thanks to better access to birth control,

Uh yeah, access to birth control, one of the crowning achievements of liberals?

I have to be honest though, this is the first time I've ever had to convince somebody how bad Detroit is.

Strawman.. The topic for me is if there are "conclusive results" of a causation. You've only pointed out correlations and the counterpoint is places like Vermont where the liberal governments correlate with different conditions. The "results" are different for Detroit and Vermont, therefore neither can be conclusive.

If the Kool-Aid shooter had been adopted and raised in an average Vermont environment, his government would still have been liberal, but would he still have been as likely to have shot someone over Kool-Aid (or Ben & Jerry's ice cream)?