Is John McCain pro life because of

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turbolapp said:
^That's ridiculous you can't pick and choose. (you can't choose at all) But since you're so keen on taking over women's bodies...are you going to personally give your blessing on whether a woman has been raped or a an incident of incest? Just think about what you're proposing. There would have to be some sort of hearing or determination that that this pregnancy was a rape/incest product. With how long anything beaurocratic takes in this county that could be months. So I guess you're a big proponent of partial birth abortion then?
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I can, and will, choose this November. Watch.

turbolapp said:
Jeez people...I know you guys to be pretty logical in other matters on here...with this stuff like this your logic just flies out the window.
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Why? Because you don't agree with it it's illogical?

turbolapp said:
By the way 1 in 4 women are molested/sexually assaulted at least once in their lives...I have a hard time believe that the percent of conception is 1 %. So either that number is wrong or your dealing with alot of secret rape/incest pregnancies (which I can believe) and in that case it's just another reason why women should be able to do this discretely without any further psychological and/or physical damage done them.
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Planned parenthood's numbers, not mine. You do know most states require extensive record keeping and reporting by abortion clinics, right? Why don't you back your stance up and find out what the percentages are in Texas.

You're not the majority, whether you believe it or not. Most women aren't so callous as to think a life can be ended for convenience.

And as for men "not having a voice", that's the kind of mentality that will forever keep females under glass ceilings.
 


turbolapp said:
Unfortunately, Men who are good at this are considered good business men. Women who are good at this are just considered manipulative. :/
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What a dumb fucking thing to say. First you say that you want equality, then you make excuses like that.

I'm not sure if it's penis envy or you were perped on as a kid, but playing the gender card as your last resort was pretty lame.
 
I'm not going to address most of this sillyness.

But here's a random thought for you. I will say that you may be democrat or republican and fall anywhere along this debate. However, no self respecting libertarian would ever be anti-choice, no matter your personal feelings towards the act of abortion it's self.

Since you guys loved the vagina quote so much, let me throw another favorite one at you, just for fun. I'll end this post with: If you don't like abortion, don't have one.
 
disinfect said:
Having an abortion before it has started to develop a brain is like cutting your nails or hair. Or removing your appendix. Simple as that. It's not a life until that, therefore abortion can never be "murder". And what it "could" develop into means nothing.
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Agreed. Until the fetus is able to support itself, it is no different than a tumor basically. Using most logic that is flying around here, every time a woman has her period she is committing murder, or better yet, every time the boobs icon is used here it can be almost a guarantee that thousands of potential babies are killed.
 
turbolapp said:
I'm not going to address most of this sillyness.

But here's a random thought for you. I will say that you may be democrat or republican and fall anywhere along this debate. However, no self respecting libertarian would ever be anti-choice, no matter your personal feelings towards the act of abortion it's self.

Since you guys loved the vagina quote so much, let me throw another favorite one at you, just for fun. I'll end this post with: If you don't like abortion, don't have one.
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So you're not going to check the stats in Texas? Worried about what you'll find?

Anyway, if you want to end the post, no biggie. For what it's worth, some of my eBay sites should be aborted so I'm wondering what that now makes me.
 
bb_wolfe said:
So you're not going to check the stats in Texas? Worried about what you'll find?

Anyway, if you want to end the post, no biggie. For what it's worth, some of my eBay sites should be aborted so I'm wondering what that now makes me.
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heh. I said ending the post not the thread, I'm still here ;)

@tweak. Your argument reminds me of the sick violenist argument from Judith Jarvis Thompson's essay: 'A Defense of Abortion' which goes like this :Suppose you awakened to find yourself hooked up through intravenous tubes to a desperately ill violinist. The violinist, you're informed, requires the shared use of your kidneys for nine months - or else he'll die. Clearly, it would be generous if you agree to continue such an arrangement. But can the state compel you to save the violinist? Certainly not. Likewise, Thompson reasons, the state cannot compel a woman to continue a pregnancy.
 
turbolapp said:
Since you guys loved the vagina quote so much, let me throw another favorite one at you, just for fun. I'll end this post with: If you don't like abortion, don't have one.
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*SIGH*
Why must I keep feeling compelled to quote myself:
LotsOfZeros said:
One thing I can say with conviction:
No man has ever had an abortion. (and I'm no doctor so don't even go there)
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turbolapp said:
heh. I said ending the post not the thread, I'm still here ;)

@tweak. Your argument reminds me of the sick violenist argument from Judith Jarvis Thompson's essay: 'A Defense of Abortion' which goes like this :Suppose you awakened to find yourself hooked up through intravenous tubes to a desperately ill violinist. The violinist, you're informed, requires the shared use of your kidneys for nine months - or else he'll die. Clearly, it would be generous if you agree to continue such an arrangement. But can the state compel you to save the violinist? Certainly not. Likewise, Thompson reasons, the state cannot compel a woman to continue a pregnancy.
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Apples to oranges at best. Thompson was a critics wet dream too, not someone I'd quote too heavily as being a reputable authority on the subject.

Turbo, you're still dodging my challenge. Just name a state, I'll find the stats and show you just how right I am.
 
It's not that I'm avoiding it, I just don't care. That's a famous right wing contingency that doesn't make sense. The fallacy being that if you think that the fetus is a person that is constitutionally protected then you can't abort it under any circumstance. I personally think the fallacy comes from the fact that the right realizes that they are pushing their religious/moral beliefs on people and when faced with something as abominable as rape or incest your religious/moral convections knows no solution.

Which again is why it's better to base these arguments on clear logic instead of emotional theological beliefs.

If you're going to hold me to it though, I stand by what I said. With the number of rape and incest estimated being almost 1 in 4 there's no way that number is 1%. You're looking at reported numbers...most of this stuff goes unreported. It's not like girls are excited about announcing that daddy knocked them up.
 
turbolapp said:
It's not that I'm avoiding it, I just don't care. That's a famous right wing contingency that doesn't make sense. The fallacy being that if you think that the fetus is a person that is constitutionally protected then you can't abort it under any circumstance. I personally think the fallacy comes from the fact that the right realizes that they are pushing their religious/moral beliefs on people and when faced with something as abominable as rape or incest your religious/moral convections knows no solution.

Which again is why it's better to base these arguments on clear logic instead of emotional theological beliefs.

If you're going to hold me to it though, I stand by what I said. With the number of rape and incest estimated being almost 1 in 4 there's no way that number is 1%. You're looking at reported numbers...most of this stuff goes unreported. It's not like girls are excited about announcing that daddy knocked them up.
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Are you seriously saying that knowing the percentage of abortions that are simple birth control versus "dangers to the mother's life" or rape/incest doesn't matter? I think it very much matters. 1 in 4 abortions is certainly not a result of rape/incest.

Not one of my beliefs is based on theology either, not once have I claimed that they were. I agree with many Christian leaders, but their views don't drive me at all.

Are you saying a girl shouldn't report the rape/incest?

Hold tight until tomorrow, I'll get as many state's results as I can, straight from the horses mouth too.

Any woman who fails to report a rape is just as guilty as the rapist for the next rape he commits.
 
bb_wolfe said:
Are you seriously saying that knowing the percentage of abortions that are simple birth control versus "dangers to the mother's life" or rape/incest doesn't matter? I think it very much matters. 1 in 4 abortions is certainly not a result of rape/incest.

Are you saying a girl shouldn't report the rape/incest?

Any woman who fails to report a rape is just as guilty as the rapist for the next rape he commits.
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I certainly wouldn't blame her if she didn't.

Hmm lets turn this around cause I'm really tired of you guys not walking around in ladies shoes. (although I'm sure there are some of you out there that prefer that ,but that is another thread ;) ) So, bb, your daddy decided he wanted to use you as a butt puppet. Your saying that you would boldly walk into a police station and announce this? Probably not. Lets say it was an acquaintance that held you down and used use a butt puppet, would you report this? Perhaps, But probably not because what would happen is everyone would know, you would be humiliated, then the police and the DA would pretty much put you on trial to prove that you didn't some how ask for it and he would most likely still get off. But hey at least you know you did the right thing, right? right.

This guy did the right thing and then he committed suicide. Saying previously:


"I shouldn't care what people think or say. It's just the fact that everyone knows I'm the kid. It was bigger than Houston. It was bigger than Texas. It was bigger than America. Everybody in the world knew what had happened and everybody knew the details of it."
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2006 Texas assault incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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bb_wolfe said:
Any woman who fails to report a rape is just as guilty as the rapist for the next rape he commits.
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You should have aborted that sentence half way through, because it came out retarded. Do you have any concept of the physiological damage that rape can cause? What makes you think it's so easy? Because I'm sure everything girl thinks "I just got rapped, now let me twaddle my ass down to the station to report it" after she's just been rapped.
 
LotsOfZeros said:
I'll take the liberty of cleansing this post of liberal slantedness and rephrase for you:
"Obama: For those who enjoy sex but prefer to dodge the responsibility that comes with it"
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Oh because that makes perfect sense. Obviously no conservative uses contraceptives because that's irresponsible, sure buddy.
 
Did you even read the article?
If Bush (and possibly McCain) had his way, our only option would be abortion for birth control.
 
Honestly, I mouse-hovered it and saw that it not only didn't point to a credible news source, but more than likely to a liberal propaganda blog.

I never trust the kool aid salesmen.

But I'll just take your word for it (with a grain of salt).
 
turbolapp said:
Hmm lets turn this around cause I'm really tired of you guys not walking around in ladies shoes. (although I'm sure there are some of you out there that prefer that ,but that is another thread ;) )
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You promised not to tell anyone...


turbolapp said:
So, bb, your daddy decided he wanted to use you as a butt puppet. Your saying that you would boldly walk into a police station and announce this? Probably not.
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Would I at 6, 12, or 18? Not sure, that was lifetime ago.

turbolapp said:
Lets say it was an acquaintance that held you down and used use a butt puppet, would you report this?
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I've taken an oath to report exactly that, regardless of circumstance or degree of separation.

I think you're whole "butt puppet", funny as it is, is a huge testament to the callousness of the female urge to abort that which she finds inconvenient. So the other side of the fence deals with "pussy polo" using your logic?

turbolapp said:
Perhaps, But probably not because what would happen is everyone would know, you would be humiliated, then the police and the DA would pretty much put you on trial to prove that you didn't some how ask for it and he would most likely still get off. But hey at least you know you did the right thing, right? right.
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I'm no expert on childhood sex crimes, but my best friend is. He's a pediatrician and aside from his family group practice, is medical director of the non-profit that does the forensic examinations and interviews of children who police suspect are victims of abuse, sexual and otherwise. According to numerous chats I've had with him over the years, no matter if the victim identifies the perp or admits anything, the same long number of years in counseling/therapy are still required for the person to cope and move past that abuse.

I'm also a mandatory reporter. I've committed to report abuse no matter what the source.

turbolapp said:
This guy did the right thing and then he committed suicide. Saying previously:
"I shouldn't care what people think or say. It's just the fact that everyone knows I'm the kid. It was bigger than Houston. It was bigger than Texas. It was bigger than America. Everybody in the world knew what had happened and everybody knew the details of it."
​
2006 Texas assault incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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A depressed kid who couldn't cope isn't the gold standard for your argument. I'd fight just as hard for his rights as I would for the unborn.
 
LotsOfZeros said:
Honestly, I mouse-hovered it and saw that it not only didn't point to a credible news source, but more than likely to a liberal propaganda blog.

I never trust the kool aid salesmen.

But I'll just take your word for it (with a grain of salt).
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Fair enough. If I've learned anything, it's to take everything with a grain of salt.
 
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