Just got scammed

o hai guyz said:
I hired Liam Toller of thisizhot.com to do a web design for me for $2500 with a $1000 down payment. A week later, he sent me a horrible design that looked like it was done by a 2 year old in MS Paint in about 30 seconds. Obviously it wasn't consistent with the work in his portfolio and he was either (a) displaying stolen work from other designers in his portfolio, or (b) deliberately putting 0 effort into this project for some reason or other. So I immediately told him I wanted a refund - he said no, so I filed a chargeback. I also contacted Google (I paid him through Google Checkout) and told them everything, and they replied telling me that they had suspended his account because they had received complaints about him from other buyers as well (but I didn't get the money back from them because he had already withdrawn it).

The chargeback was "investigated" for about 3 weeks and then it was denied because I "did not provide the seller with adequate time to revise the designs." This is a bullshit answer because anyone who looks at the design he did for me compared to the designs in his portfolio can tell that the difference in quality is laughable. Everyone knows that online marketing is incredibly time sensitive and it would have made absolutely no sense to sit around for a couple months waiting for this shitface to revise a design that he obviously wasn't planning to put any effort into anyway. It's not like he did a decent design and I just didn't like it for some reason or other - no, it's more like he got his 2 year old son to draw a picture of a dick with a pink crayon and send it to me, that's how useless the design was.

How did this chargeback not go through? Do I just have the shittiest bank in the world or is this type of stuff actually legal? I really hope not, because as soon as Warrior Forum hears about this there's gonna be an entire wave of ridiculous new scam sites popping up.
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Twitter Same guy?

Liam Toller | Facebook

Oh shit he's a gangsta rapper from Brittin!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdBtoMZ4u1o"]Liam Toller "Why You So Bad?" OFFICIAL TEASER - YouTube[/ame]
 


crackp0t said:
Rofl, after reading their site it turns out the client doesn't even own the design. They only own a one time license to it.
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Unless you have a contract that specifically states otherwise this is how it works with any design work you hire a contractor to do.

ClickRich said:
That's too much for a desing way too much.
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All those companies paying 10s or 100s of thousands for their designs must have it all wrong.
 
BlogHue said:
For those wondering what theme the site is working on - it's this one Suerte Wordpress Theme
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Wow. If I had known about this theme I wouldn't have hired him. I assumed that a graphic designer would at least design his own website, and this is the quality I was expecting.

amateursurgeon said:
I hate to break it to you, but (in the UK at least), if you were to hypothetically take this to court, it's unlikely a judge would side with you.

When you buy something that proves to be defective, you need to:

a. Tell the vendor promptly
b. Give them adequate opportunity to put it right
c. Behave in a "reasonable manner" in helping them to put it right.

Before demanding a refund.

If I were in the designer's position, I'd argue you haven't done b or c.

The only exceptions to this are if:

1. They give a clear guarantee (we'll get it right first time or your money back)
2. In your initial agreement with them, you make it very clear that "time is of the essence", and that a satisfactory design has to be provided within 14 days (or whatever), or you'll require a refund.

"everybody knows I don't have time to wait" isn't a clear enough argument.
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That makes sense. I'm just a little appalled because in this specific case, it's obvious that he is deliberately dicking around and not doing his job. The design he sent me is of such inferior quality to his own site that the product he advertised isn't even remotely representative of the product he delivered. If I hire someone to paint my house and they come in and draw a picture of a ballsack on the wall and then sit around laughing about it and not doing shit, am I required to give them adequate time to do a better painting job?
 
I remember someone filed a chargeback against me awhile back and all they said was "my son used my card to buy from this site without my permission." They won, and the "son" got to keep the stuff. I'm surprised how easy it was for them to get their money back just by saying that, when I can't get my money back after practically sending an encyclopedia of evidence as well as proof that he has scammed other people in the past.

Next time this happens, if I just say "my son used my card without my permission" will I automatically win?
 
dreamache said:
You're "o hai guyz" or are you just another person who was about to order design from the same dude? Not that I give a fuck or anything, perhaps it's known already, I'm buzzed, whatever.
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I wanted a new design for my soundclick page. Saw he was designing a lot of soundclick pages and checked him out. I guess its hard to believe.
 
You need to chargeback with CC not with Google Checkout.

Of course, Google Checkout might hate you if you do that, but if you want the money back, contact your CC provider who funded the sale.
 
^^^I've had issues getting money back from the CC company as well. They claim it is tough to do a chargeback on intangible items like online services, programming, and graphic design work.

What do you guys usually say to them that works?
 
o hai guyz said:
Wow. If I had known about this theme I wouldn't have hired him. I assumed that a graphic designer would at least design his own website, and this is the quality I was expecting.




That makes sense. I'm just a little appalled because in this specific case, it's obvious that he is deliberately dicking around and not doing his job. The design he sent me is of such inferior quality to his own site that the product he advertised isn't even remotely representative of the product he delivered. If I hire someone to paint my house and they come in and draw a picture of a ballsack on the wall and then sit around laughing about it and not doing shit, am I required to give them adequate time to do a better painting job?
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Well, not if he was that blatant... but unless he actually just drew a ballsack with MSPaint and emailed it to you with a note saying "here's your website", it's not a fair comparison. Remember the people who arbitrate chargebacks don't know shit about websites.
 
guerilla said:
You need to chargeback with CC not with Google Checkout.

Of course, Google Checkout might hate you if you do that, but if you want the money back, contact your CC provider who funded the sale.
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true story

credit card companies balls > pay pal / google checkout balls

when it comes time to swing big cocks, CC company will tell paypal or google checkout to get fucked in a hurry
 
People, stop feeling bad for this guy.

He hired a wanna be auto-tuned rapper with a free template website to design his skin. How is it unexpected that he got ripped off?

And, further, we're glossing over the fact that he may -not- have been ripped off at all. Sure, he probably was, but you've only heard his side, and based on his lack of due diligence when hiring, he isn't terribly bright - just the kind of person to blame others for their own shit.
 
Ive finally found a web developer who is both awesome at design and coding and is also pretty cheap 1-2k USD. Its taken me four years and I'ce dealt with my fair share of ass holes. If anyone wants me to put them in touch to see what he's capable of, hit me up.
 
Fatbat said:
Unless you have a contract that specifically states otherwise this is how it works with any design work you hire a contractor to do.
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Outside of something like themeforest I'm never had that happen. It's a shitty way to do business. If I'm paying you 1k to come up with something unique I'd expect it to be mine to do what I want with. If I was to buy a license to something you better be charging me a hell of a lot less than a grand or two.
 
crackp0t said:
Outside of something like themeforest I'm never had that happen. It's a shitty way to do business. If I'm paying you 1k to come up with something unique I'd expect it to be mine to do what I want with. If I was to buy a license to something you better be charging me a hell of a lot less than a grand or two.
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I was only pointing out the way copyright laws work. It is something you should be aware of. Technically you should have a contract in place outlining who owns what when the work is done, but we tend to be a pretty casual lot around these parts and the majority of designers here aren't ever going to do something to screw over their clients like that. When I do work for a client, they get everything I produce upon final payment, no strings attached.
 
Fatbat said:
I was only pointing out the way copyright laws work. It is something you should be aware of. Technically you should have a contract in place outlining who owns what when the work is done, but we tend to be a pretty casual lot around these parts and the majority of designers here aren't ever going to do something to screw over their clients like that. When I do work for a client, they get everything I produce upon final payment, no strings attached.
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I didn't mean to sound harsh towards you. You're right, I was just saying how I and probably every other person feels about paying for a design.

I got thinking about it more and I worked for a design company many moons ago and they pulled tricky shit like that as well. The client would own the design, but the design was actually a template for a custom cms that only they hosted. So if the client didn't want to pay several hundred dollars a month hosting fees they were fucked. They give them the design and say bye. Then the client would realize that it did jack shit for them and come back. That was one of the many reason I worked there for about 1 month. They were slime balls and pretty much turned me off of the whole design industry. I realize now that's not how most shops work, but back then they left a really sour taste in my mouth. It also pissed me off they were basically stealing from tax payers by getting design contracts then pulling that shit with city and tax payer funded properties like the zoo and some museums.

I should have jacked their CMS source and dump it to the world, but I didn't because I'm not like that. It probably would have been the "right" thing to do though.
 
o hai guyz said:
There's not any way to post it without blocking everything out. That's not really the issue though - They agreed that the design was useless and that Liam was bullshitting around, but their point was that I didn't give him enough time to come around and make a real design.
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Can you give him a deadline of 2 weeks and then if he fails go back to Google?
 
So exactly what made you think purchasing a website design from a guy who has testimonials on his site from wannabe rapper African Americans that are clearly fake (as they speak English properly)?
 
@o hai guys Yea, he got me too for my money for a layout he was supposed to do and never even got back to me after I paid him. Hes a crook and thats how he does his business. Just google thisizhot scam and youll see posts of people he scammed. Put him on blast all over the internet for getting over on you. Thats about all u can do since hes out of the country. I paid through google checkout too thats how he gets everybody cause if it was paypal he wouldnt be able to do that.
 
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