Let's talk about Leadership

Major Bach's take was my read of the day. Today's army would tear him down and replace his words with a screed from a Janet Napolitano-type... ('I know you're fighting Islamic fundamentalists but don't say bad things about Islam - they might get mad!')
 


John C. Maxwell has dropped so many knowledge bombs on me with regard to leadership.

21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/21-Irrefutable-Laws-Leadership-Follow/dp/0785288376/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1355345966&sr=1-1]The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership: Follow Them and People Will Follow You: John C. Maxwell: 9780785288374: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

The 5 Levels of Leadership: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/The-Levels-Leadership-Maximize-Potential/dp/159995365X/ref=pd_sim_b_2]The 5 Levels of Leadership: Proven Steps to Maximize Your Potential: John C. Maxwell: 9781599953656: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

How Successful People Think: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/How-Successful-People-Think-Thinking/dp/1599951681/ref=pd_sim_b_1]How Successful People Think: Change Your Thinking, Change Your Life: John C. Maxwell: 9781599951683: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

Add those to your Hanukkah lists, boys and girls.
 
I think people often confuse leadership with management.
While there is overlap one != the other.

As for the military guys I have worked with, they do seem to have some issues that do not make them good civilian leaders / managers

1. Hierarchy does not work in civilian life as it does in the military

It just doesn't. Especially American military people are completely stranded when coming to Europe. The preferred leadership style here is participatory leadership.
Being a hard ass who jacks off to his ideas of hierarchy and chain of command gets you nowhere fast.

2. Shouting is a big no-go if you work with any kind of smart people

'nuff said, really. The moment you shout, you lose all respect.

3. Motivation is very different for civilians

When being deployed somewhere, motivation may come from "if I don't do shit, we all gonna die" - this does not apply in civilian life.

Source:
European civilian having worked and working with Americans and Military people.

::emp::
 
emp said:
I think people often confuse leadership with management.
While there is overlap one != the other.

As for the military guys I have worked with, they do seem to have some issues that do not make them good civilian leaders / managers

1. Hierarchy does not work in civilian life as it does in the military

It just doesn't. Especially American military people are completely stranded when coming to Europe. The preferred leadership style here is participatory leadership.
Being a hard ass who jacks off to his ideas of hierarchy and chain of command gets you nowhere fast.

2. Shouting is a big no-go if you work with any kind of smart people

'nuff said, really. The moment you shout, you lose all respect.

3. Motivation is very different for civilians

When being deployed somewhere, motivation may come from "if I don't do shit, we all gonna die" - this does not apply in civilian life.

Source:
European civilian having worked and working with Americans and Military people.

::emp::
Click to expand...

Emp,

I understand your perspective. A chain of command in the military is not the same as a structure of management in business. But you'd be hard pressed to find someone with more exposure to systems and processes than a military member. I think anyone, military or otherwise, who thinks it's appropriate to shout in order to impose his or her authority is obviously an idiot. Deployments certainly suck, and yes the motivation waivers and is rekindled when and if push comes to shove, but it's not always horrific. And more often than not, you discover just how meaningful the simple displays of leadership are, such as pulling an extra 4 hours on watch for your subordinate who just got off a 12 hour patrol. This can translate over very well.

I have notes and notes of examples of military to civilian translations. But it's not meant for this audience. Unfortunately, a lot of military members doubt the impact of the leadership that was preached to them in the military, mainly because it has become inane. They discount just how valuable it is and often think like you and assume the civilian world is some 180 degree recalibration. And while at face value this is true, it's just not the case when you dive into the core of leadership.

Having many perspectives, I am steadfast in my belief that a person who is a good leader in the military will be a good leader in civilian life, and I would love to have this conversation with you guys but I'll bite my tongue for the remainder of this thread as I didn't start this conversation to argue that point.
 
boatBurner said:
Scenario #1: The Project Manager
You've just inherited the responsibilities as the project manager of a 5-man team of developers, designers, gurus, and some bearded dude with a straw hat whom they call a "growth hacker".

  • Today, your team moves into a brand new one-floor office.
  • You were given a moderate budget to build your operating space.
  • You have five active projects.
  • You have two deadlines coming up in less than 6 days.
  • Each team member has only been read-in on 1 project which they are currently working.
  • No team member is currently working on the same project.
What do you do?
Click to expand...

Move it so there's 2 people working on 1 project each, so 2 projects are being completed at the same time. Fifth guy reviews the other three projects, specs them out in detail for the other staff, gathers needed info from client(s), gets the needed devel environments setup, etc. By the time the first two projects are done, everything is 100% laid out and ready for the devel team to easily bang out the next two projects.

What do I win? :)

Anyway, I'm basically with Emp. I don't think true, raw leadership is as important in civilian life as it is in military life. Decision making and problem solving is very critical in both, but not so much leadership.
 
boatBurner said:
..snip... And more often than not, you discover just how meaningful the simple displays of leadership are, such as pulling an extra 4 hours on watch for your subordinate who just got off a 12 hour patrol. This can translate over very well.

I have notes and notes of examples of military to civilian translations. But it's not meant for this audience. Unfortunately, a lot of military members doubt the impact of the leadership that was preached to them in the military, mainly because it has become inane. They discount just how valuable it is and often think like you and assume the civilian world is some 180 degree recalibration. And while at face value this is true, it's just not the case when you dive into the core of leadership.

Having many perspectives, I am steadfast in my belief that a person who is a good leader in the military will be a good leader in civilian life, and I would love to have this conversation with you guys but I'll bite my tongue for the remainder of this thread as I didn't start this conversation to argue that point.
Click to expand...

I think we are in the same boat here, actually.

Only thing of difference is that I do not think that the military MAKES great leaders.

A good leader is a good leader, regardless of the background.

I have just worked with too many military idiots to believe the military makes the man.

::emp::
 
emp said:
I think we are in the same boat here, actually.

Only thing of difference is that I do not think that the military MAKES great leaders.

A good leader is a good leader, regardless of the background.

I have just worked with too many military idiots to believe the military makes the man.

::emp::
Click to expand...
I don't believe the notion that leaders are born. It has more to do that situation than anything. You can learn a certain type of leadership and become a great leader in that capacity, it's just not an easy thing to do.

I do agree with you that the military doesn't make great "leaders". It makes good "military leadership" which as stated in this thread is a different kind of leadership.
 
Leadership: See, "Post Whoring".

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lolz
 
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