Liberal

nvanprooyen said:
I think a lot of people are Libertarian and don't even realize it. Not saying you are one of those, but there are a lot out there.
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I'm just trying to figure out how being supportive of government is restricting freedoms, I guess it would be true if I was expecting the government to give me everything without giving it, or my community anything in return. I believe in having a choice if such a thing is even possible with government influence anymore.

I've always considered myself somewhat left-leaning/liberal, kind of a mix of what some people would consider conservative concepts (anti-abortion, support of troops, feel taxes are necessary), but obviously have liberal traits such as feeling like some security measures actually hurt us more than they secure us, supporting gay marriages, stronger freedom of speech, even if some may call it unpatriotic (even though ability to protest can be in a sense a patriotic duty).

So when I see shit like "all liberals are always", or "all conservatives are always"... I just feel like the person speaking doesn't know their head from their rear. If we really didn't exercise our differences, we probably would be no more diverse than Japan.
 


slayerment said:
This.

Also:

The enemy, meaning the one world conspirators, have seized upon that word liberal as a cover-up for their activity. It sounds so innocent and so humanitarian to be liberal. Well make sure that the person who calls themself a liberal or is described as a liberal is not in truth a red. — Myron Fagan, 1967; The Illuminati Exposed
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Reminds me of two concepts/events.

1) The devil's greatest feat, was convincing the world that he did not exist.
2) The fun times when some right-leaning politicians would throw words around like 'insigators', 'unpatriotic', 'unamerican', at those who protested their views.
 
A market liberal, for example, would be someone who supports free markets. limited government, and opposes government interference/regulation. In other words, the opposite of most of the big government Republicans you will find here.

So to me a liberal/liberal would be someone who supports freedom/liberty both as it applies to economics and social issues. Leave people alone, let them be free to trade and live how they choose.

most of people you find here who enjoy "liberal bashing" are fake "conservatives"- statists who support a massive government regulation and interference in personal lives, as long as it is for their pet issues.

Are the typical so-called "liberals" any better? Well, hell no. But most of the people bashing liberals also enjoy big government, massive spending, adventurism, nanny-statism, with a little racism/gay bashing mixed in.
 
Koschei said:
"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas, Leader of the the Socialist Party of America

Norman Thomas Quotes/Quotations

How Many Self Proclaimed Socialists Are In Our Congress? Here Are 70 Of Them!
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Have any quotes about how most modern supporters of "capitalism" oppose any version of free markets and mean Capitalism to equal state corporatism/socialism?
 
JohnCJackson said:
A market liberal, for example, would be someone who supports free markets. limited government, and opposes government interference/regulation. In other words, the opposite of most of the big government Republicans you will find here.

So to me a liberal/liberal would be someone who supports freedom/liberty both as it applies to economics and social issues. Leave people alone, let them be free to trade and live how they choose.

most of people you find here who enjoy "liberal bashing" are fake "conservatives"- statists who support a massive government regulation and interference in personal lives, as long as it is for their pet issues.

Are the typical so-called "liberals" any better? Well, hell no. But most of the people bashing liberals also enjoy big government, massive spending, adventurism, nanny-statism, with a little racism/gay bashing mixed in.
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I understand that this is your definition of a liberal, but it's not even close to being accurate in terms of how things are labeled in the American political system. That's the definition of a libertarian, or very close.

Republicans - Privacy & freedom in the boardroom
Democrats - Privacy & freedom in the bedroom

I personally think both parties advocate big government and I don't see it changing any time soon.
 
JohnCJackson said:
A market liberal, for example, would be someone who supports free markets. limited government, and opposes government interference/regulation. In other words, the opposite of most of the big government Republicans you will find here.

So to me a liberal/liberal would be someone who supports freedom/liberty both as it applies to economics and social issues. Leave people alone, let them be free to trade and live how they choose.

most of people you find here who enjoy "liberal bashing" are fake "conservatives"- statists who support a massive government regulation and interference in personal lives, as long as it is for their pet issues.

Are the typical so-called "liberals" any better? Well, hell no. But most of the people bashing liberals also enjoy big government, massive spending, adventurism, nanny-statism, with a little racism/gay bashing mixed in.
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"So to me a liberal/liberal would be someone who supports freedom/liberty both as it applies to economics and social issues. Leave people alone, let them be free to trade and live how they choose."

This is how I define true "liberlism" not the socialist leaning idealology of the neo-liberal.
 
As the OP seems European, maybe this definition will make some sense.

Theoretically speaking there are two broad types of democracy:
1. Social Democracy
2. Liberal Democracy

In Australia the Social Democrats are the Labour Party (in US: Democrats) and the Liberal Democrats are the Liberal Party (US: Republican Party, but more so the Libertarians). By US standards liberals vote for Labour and Conservatives vote for the Liberal Party (that must sound somewhat jarring to the Americans! Yep, if you lived in Australia you'd be voting for the Liberal Party.). On the broad political spectrum Liberal Democrats are Centre-Right and Social Democrats are Centre-Left. With Conservatives being a bit further right and Socialists being further left.
In the UK Labour are liberal, but the Conservative party are more Liberal (the Liberal Party are Liberal also, in the Classical tradition, but more liberal on social values, ie Libertarian).


That definition, which applies mostly to fiscal policy (also referred to as Neo-Liberalism these days - laissez faire economics) disregards standing on social issues somewhat. You could say Libertarians are Liberal on fiscal policy and liberal on social issues.


To confuse you further, whats called liberalism in the US is basically Social Liberalism, whereas in the UK and Australia it is Classical Liberalism (which in the US is more or less now Libertarianism and in Europe now Neo-Liberalism).

this post has become a clusterfuck, so I'll refer you to Wiikipedia while I get flamed for adhering to false left/right dichotomies:

Liberal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
LiberalVsConservative.jpg
 
The way this thread was started didn't even beat around the bush as far as starting the lib vs conservative flaming. sorta funny.

I am obviously beyond partaking in such low-brow flaming.

But..
Conservatives = Closet Fags (Larry Craig, Mark Foley, Ted Haggard, Bob Allen, Glenn Murphey Jr.)
just sayin..
just sayin..
no offense..
how's your motha?
 
kblessinggr said:
I'm just trying to figure out how being supportive of government is restricting freedoms, I guess it would be true if I was expecting the government to give me everything without giving it, or my community anything in return. I believe in having a choice if such a thing is even possible with government influence anymore.

I've always considered myself somewhat left-leaning/liberal, kind of a mix of what some people would consider conservative concepts (anti-abortion, support of troops, feel taxes are necessary), but obviously have liberal traits such as feeling like some security measures actually hurt us more than they secure us, supporting gay marriages, stronger freedom of speech, even if some may call it unpatriotic (even though ability to protest can be in a sense a patriotic duty).

So when I see shit like "all liberals are always", or "all conservatives are always"... I just feel like the person speaking doesn't know their head from their rear. If we really didn't exercise our differences, we probably would be no more diverse than Japan.
Click to expand...

If you do not understand how support of Big Government restricts freedoms, read Atlas Shrugged or at least Cliff Notes:

Atlas Shrugged: Study Guide and Homework Help - CliffsNotes
 
The situation regarding the term is quite differently here in Europe compared to in the US. At least in Scandinavia, liberalism is the term used to describe politics in which one defends limited government size and intervention, negative liberties (self owernship over one's own property and body), a complete system example being laissez-faire capitalism.
 
popeye said:
Liberalsim is a mental disorder and can only be treated and cured by:

1) Being responsible for someone else's life (family, children etc.)
2) Having a real career/job
3) Paying taxes

The above is what cured me from the liberal brainwashing conducted on me by socialist college professors.
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ffs... can you at least stop quoting radio show hosts. Perhaps have an original thought every once in a while?
 
JohnCJackson said:
A market liberal, for example, would be someone who supports free markets. limited government, and opposes government interference/regulation. In other words, the opposite of most of the big government Republicans you will find here.

So to me a liberal/liberal would be someone who supports freedom/liberty both as it applies to economics and social issues. Leave people alone, let them be free to trade and live how they choose.

most of people you find here who enjoy "liberal bashing" are fake "conservatives"- statists who support a massive government regulation and interference in personal lives, as long as it is for their pet issues.

Are the typical so-called "liberals" any better? Well, hell no. But most of the people bashing liberals also enjoy big government, massive spending, adventurism, nanny-statism, with a little racism/gay bashing mixed in.
Click to expand...

as you're talking about, a Market Liberal is actually a "classical liberal", which is close to today's libertarianism.

if one ideology can save America, it's libertarianism. Not necessarily the Libertarian party (capital L), but libertarianism.
 
subigo said:
ffs... can you at least stop quoting radio show hosts. Perhaps have an original thought every once in a while?
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don't know what's worse, a right winger who takes their talking points from Rush/Hannity, Palin, or their Preacher etc, or a left winger who takes their talking points from Reddit/Digg, HuffPo/DailyKos and Jon Stewart.


you're all morons
 
Okay lets take a opinion - I am super conservative when it comes to Money / Government Having No Business Messing up in MY BUSINESS (why should I pay for bums and good for nothing assholes with my taxes) and I am super liberal when it comes to Religion (I DON't WANT IT) AND how to live my life. I don't give a shit about homos, abortion or Church-Fags / Mosque-Fags / Temple-Fags.

What does that makes me in your yank-fag lingo?
 
papajohn56 said:
as you're talking about, a Market Liberal is actually a "classical liberal", which is close to today's libertarianism.

if one ideology can save America, it's libertarianism. Not necessarily the Libertarian party (capital L), but libertarianism.
Click to expand...
I think I found my answer.
 
Lord B said:
Okay lets take a opinion - I am super conservative when it comes to Money / Government Having No Business Messing up in MY BUSINESS (why should I pay for bums and good for nothing assholes with my taxes) and I am super liberal when it comes to Religion (I DON't WANT IT) AND how to live my life. I don't give a shit about homos, abortion or Church-Fags / Mosque-Fags / Temple-Fags.

What does that makes me in your yank-fag lingo?
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libertarian. though on the religion issue, it's more of that the government should not endorse or elevate any one religion over another. If someone tries to preach to you, that's outside the realm of government, until they get violent with it.
 
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