Massive shooting in Colorado during The Dark Knight, 14 dead

If we can not compare gun crimes based on gun ownership alone, but rather have to take in culture, economics, general well-being of the populace, etc..

The we should not compare countries at all.

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Sounds good to me.

The thing is, people love to make polarizing arguments and avoid context. Then they like to get more polarized and play "gotcha" games like you tried with your last post to me.

It's nonsense, but it's basically 90% of all internet discourse.

IceToEskimos and I talked about this today. The issue isn't gun control, just like the issue isn't drug use or prostitution. Many people believe in an arbitrary political system controlling what other people can and cannot do.

These people are raised with and indoctrinated into systems of "acceptable violence" and cannot see the immorality of compelling other people to do things (or not do things) against their will.

People control. That's where the ideological conflicts come from.
 


Of course there are differences but they aren't as huge when you throw the others in the mix.


Canada and USA

-GDP per capita (almost same $47k -ish)

-Personal disposable income per capita is slightly higher in USA

-age structure

-Ethnic groups (US has more blacks, Canada more Asians)

-Canada scores higher on test scores (duh, US sucks)

Canada = 8 people per square mile
USA = 87 people per square mile


USA has higher temperatures, especially in the south where the crime rates tend to be higher.

Hot and bothered: Experts say violent crime rises with the heat - Crimesider - CBS News
 
The UK even has strict silverware control laws. :eek:

fxsun.jpg
 
Nice going Guerilla. On One hand you just tout "Switzerland" as an example of gun ownership gone right, on the other hand you say one can't compare countries....

As far as the Switzerland thing goes, here is a lengthy post from reddit, which I copied because it explains the situation very well.
I live in Switzerland and I can expand on this if you need me to.

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Quote:

Well, most men (are forced to) have a military gun at home. However, they don't have any munition. Munition is provided when you have to do the mandatory shooting each year or when you have to use the gun in the military service. However, it's strictly forbidden to take munition home from there. People who go shooting in a shooting club can buy the munition they need there.

So yes, most men have a gun, but can't use it. Of course, if somebody really wants, he could get some munition. It's legal to buy it, but there aren't a lot of places where you can.

This was about the military guns. To own a civil gun, you need a permit "Waffenerwebsschein", which usually gets everybody who is at least 18 years old, is Swiss and doesn't have any criminal records. However, this is only for owning a gun.

For carrying a gun, you need another permit "Waffentragschein", which is valid for 5 years and then must be renewed. This permit is usually only granted to people who work in security and they have to do a test before they get it. Hunter don't need this permit, but they need another license, which also includes a test.

There's no need for owning or even carrying a gun in Switzerland though. I recently saw that video about an American watchmaker who was the victim of armed robberies several times and each time he shot the robbers. This is just unthinkable here. We don't have any gangs, like you have in the USA. And only very, very few armed robberies and even in those we have, usually nobody gets hurt, because those people are just robbers, not murders. I think knives are used more often in robberies than guns and for such situations, we could buy pepper spray to defend ourselves.

So, Switzerland isn't safe because because of the guns, most guns belong to people who went through the military training and those guns are locked-in in the wardrobe without any available ammunition. The key is to provide a good education for everybody, provide job opportunities and security and social welfare and health care for everybody. This way, nobody is forced into criminality because he hasn't any options left.

Here, young people have usually very good job opportunities after hi-school. Only people who want to become a scientist or want to work in a job where they need a scientific degree, like lawyer or doctor, continue school (which costs about $2000 a year). Everybody else does a apprenticeship in a job he likes (there's one for anything, shop assistant, computer scientist, nurse, hairdresser, etc...). This means 2 to 5 year training, which includes theory in school and practical work at the work place and then they get a degree in that job. But, sorry, this is off topic, we were discussing guns. :)


Switzerland is white, a happy country, and pretty well off money-wise. America is angry, all over the place with wealth, and our population of people in ghettos probably outnumbers the entire country of Switzerland.
 
He knew how to make bombs. Why not blow the movie theater up? What was the motive? Why warn the cops about the booby traps? What about his dad's LIBOR connections?

/Conspiracy Theory

Why let the most aggressive and violent organization on the planet stockpile weapons and take ours away?

Why rely on a corrupt police force to protect us when the average police response time in the US is 11 minutes and the average violent crime lasts 2 minutes?

Our President can kill at will with remote control drones but we shouldn't be allowed to defend ourselves against robbery/rape/murder?
 
I'm bumping this thread to avoid littering STS with a new thread about the following:

CU Connections » Campuses define concealed carry in student housing

The gist: select students at University of Colorado Boulder and University of Colorado Colorado Springs will now be allowed to carry concealed firearms on campus. There are several conditions, some of which are detailed at the link above. Those conditions will not be celebrated by those who favor an individual's right to carry. But this appears to be a step in the right direction.

Side note: this move was prompted by a ruling by the CO Supreme Court in early 2012. It's unclear (to me) whether the Dark Knight shooting fast-tracked it.
 
Would like to remind everyone I live in a country with 10%+ of able adults possessing CCW permits, and a murder rate of .5 per year per 100,000 population.

One county north , and it's 6 or 7 per 100,000.