More than a little head - they have bodies

rusvik, maybe you can identify with this, but I am truly mind-boggled by people who go from theory to fact without any of the confirming data.

I mean, just because a lot of people have a theory, or a lot of them are scientists, still doesn't prove it.

And atheists wonder why I think they are more like theists than not...
 


rusvik, maybe you can identify with this, but I am truly mind-boggled by people who go from theory to fact without any of the confirming data.

I mean, just because a lot of people have a theory, or a lot of them are scientists, still doesn't prove it.

And atheists wonder why I think they are more like theists than not...

I think most people need to believe in something and that there's no real difference being a theist atheist or being a theist. They both refuse to critically look at the dogma or axioms of their beliefs.
 
It's become (like the government, or the church) this self-reinforcing belief for a lot of people.
incredibly ironic given faith you people are putting into a proposal based on no evidence. there is no other support for your theories than "hey, there's this weird thing we found, holy shit it COULD be Aliens who created us all!"

the proposals you people have put forth are baseless at best and show a severe misunderstanding (or no understanding at all) of evolution. meanwhile, in the real scientific world there is an abundance of evidence and support in favor of the very concepts you gloss over and call bullshit, un-"proven", or only theories.

there was a brilliant short video voiced by some british guy explaining the massive failure of logic and lack of scientifi thought of people who put forth such proposals. couldn't find it in the 30 seconds i cared to search. maybe someone remembers the title and will post it so it'll be ignored.
 
It is simply an untestable theory.
case in point as to why i said my posts will go ignored. ignorance breeds ignorance

http://www.wickedfire.com/shooting-...ttle-head-they-have-bodies-2.html#post1755789
argument: Evolution is outside the realm of sciene it can't be observed and directly studied
counter: Evolutionary changes have been observed repeatedly. Science depends on testing hypotheses against the predictions and proposals made about what we SHOULD see an observe, not direct observation. Observation is a basic process that is not required by science and the scientific method. Most processes can't be observed and in fact are seen and studied by means other than direct observation

argument: evolution can't be proved
counter: nothing in science is ever absolutely proven. However there is absolutely positively a fucking abundance of evidence supporting evolution. But that's not the fun part. Where it really gets fun - and puts the twist in many a panty - is that there is no contradictory evidence. Any proposals of contradictory evidence or ideas are quickly squashed with real science.
 
How about you present some of the overwhelming empirical evidence for evolution and particularly how single cell organisms turn into t-rexes?

And also bro, do you realise there are two distinct methods of scentific discovery - inductive and deductive method - where math is deductive and as such the only TRUE science, while other sciences are inductive and much more prone to observation bias.
 
but I am still skeptical
are you INFORMED and still skeptical? as in you've studied the topics you're skeptical about?

or are a skeptical layman?

the former I can respect as long as valid arguments are put forth with valid arguments based in real science

Neither answers the big questions about the universe imo
yet another assumption of the uneducated.

evolution does not attempt to answer that question.
 
How about you present some of the overwhelming empirical evidence for evolution and particularly how single cell organisms turn into t-rexes?
do you have knowledge on the topic of anything other than grade school level? because the information i'd post will go in one ear and out the other if you don't.

here's somewhat nice, easily digestible articles to edumacate yourself with

Evidence for Single Origin of Life | NCSE
Evolution 101: From Soup to Cells - the Origin of Life
The Origin of Life
Discovery Offers Clues To Origin Of Life

do you realise there are two distinct methods of scentific discovery - inductive and deductive method - where math is deductive and as such the only TRUE science, while other sciences are inductive and much more prone to observation bias.
more evidence you didn't bother to read a single one of posts. i said the same thing a page prior. congrats for repeating what i said.
 
i'm out. it's obvious those who are trying their hardest to poke holes in evolution (it's cute, btw) are neither educated enough to speak on it in any way nor are willing (or perhaps able) to learn and educate themselves.

PS: found that vid I was looking for

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI"]Open-mindedness - YouTube[/ame]
 
Well if the standard isn't proof, then I suppose we're all just picking and choosing among unproven theories.

There are no other scientific theories in regard to this, only hypotheses.

Scientific theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your attitude towards science topics seems to be the opposite that you have towards other subjects. Nobody can run an experiment in a lab proving that Ron Paul is "better" than Mitt Romney or that the roads would still be maintained if the world converted to anarchy.

I'm open to good information about evolution. I don't see much of it.

Some of the questions you ask would suggest that you have spent relatively little time looking into it.

"If there is no government, who would build the roads?"
"If we go to a gold standard, will Walmart only be able to accept gold nuggets?"
"If some people need more money, then why doesn't the government just print it?"

This is probably how you are coming across to JerseyJoe.


I'm just looking for good, reliable information to base conclusions on.

Science is not about "conclusions" or finalities, it has to do with odds and probabilities based on a logical examination of available observations.

Even in everyday life when someone says something like "I believe Casey Anthony killed her kid." - that might mean that they think the evidence suggests a 80% chance that she did it. It doesn't mean they are saying they are a 100% certain because they personally witnessed her do it.


"the concept of proof has no place in science. Many people who do not actively practice science do not understand that science is structured so that scientists can never prove anything...

Hypotheses and theories can never be proven true using the scientific method. Therefore, science advances only through disproof. This is a critical and often misunderstood point. To be scientific, theories can never be proven true, but all theories must be refutable. Therefore, all theories, and by extension all of science, are tentative.

As an example, let’s use a science fact that is known to most adults: the existence of electrons. We know that electrons exist, but here’s the rub: Science can never prove that electrons exist. Hypotheses about the existence of electrons have been supported after countless tests using the scientific method. In other words, they have not been refuted. Knowledge of the precise nature of electrons will always be undergoing refinement, but the weight of scientific evidence clearly supports the existence of electrons."


UNL's AgBiosafety for Educators
 
Lol at Evolution being some kind of science like Physics. It is simply an untestable theory.

A lot of the theories coming out of physics have to do with things like time travel and multiple universes. How "testable" are those?

Many aspects of evolution are backed by controlled tests in a laboratory.
 
Your attitude towards science topics seems to be the opposite that you have towards other subjects. Nobody can run an experiment in a lab proving that Ron Paul is "better" than Mitt Romney or that the roads would still be maintained if the world converted to anarchy.
You need to read the Facebook IPO thread where I explain to dchuk and UG 40x about the roles of facts and values.
 
Just a few questions for the evolutionists...

1. Why are we at the top of the food chain?

2. If other species had more time to evolve than ours, why is there no struggle between species for planetary dominance (When I wrote that phrase, it felt way too sci-fi, but it's a legit question)?

3. If evolution at its core is about the strong surviving, why haven't any other species developed brains with the same or better intelligence than humans? Was our strand of species just lucky?

If evolution is true, then why haven't rats "made it big" in this world? Lions? Eels? Etc etc. Why are we the special ones?
 
1. Why are we at the top of the food chain?
i'll take cerebral cortex for $500 alex

2. If other species had more time to evolve than ours, why is there no struggle between species for planetary dominance (When I wrote that phrase, it felt way too sci-fi, but it's a legit question)?
there is a constant struggle within niches. struggles that enable change over time. ie: evolution

3. If evolution at its core is about the strong surviving
it's not. it's about the fit surviving.

strong does not always = fittest

why haven't any other species developed brains with the same or better intelligence than humans?
a) on what scale is that supposed to be measured? a human-created scale geared specifically for the human brain and tasks which humans excel at?
b) lose the concept of "better" or "stronger". in evolution there is only fit and unfit. a human is unfit to live in super heated environments yet some small organisms thrive in it. does that make them "better" or "stronger" than humans. no, it means they are more fit for their environment than we are for theirs.

Was our strand of species just lucky?
there was no luck. there was only evolution, a result of natural selection and random events including mutation and genetic drift

If evolution is true
define true

then why haven't rats "made it big" in this world? Lions? Eels? Etc etc.
wtf does made it big mean? they are fit for their environment. when pressures are strong enough adaptions will develop over time either resulting in their demise or speciation

Why are we the special ones?
we're not
 
I think you're making my point, here. You've agreed that we are at the top of the food chain and have pointed to our highly developed brains as the reason. That's fine. So that still leaves me wondering why no other species has such developed brains as ours?

What other scales matter? Humans are the superior species, so isn't that what we compare all else?

The animal kingdom is vast with diversity, yet only one species has evolved from its earliest forms (fish, amoebas if you'd like to go further) to our present state. Why? How could one species change so rapidly yet others not keep up? You're right, evolution is survival of the fittest. Why is it then that humans can, through physical and mental capacity, adapt to 99% of all environments on this planet yet all others cannot? Why have we been given the ability, through evolution, to reach this point where we cannot even be contained to this planet, yet every other species on earth is severely behind?
 
I think you're making my point, here.
then you are not comprehending what i'm telling you.

What other scales matter? Humans are the superior species, so isn't that what we compare all else?
once again, based on what measure? ability create a tool? ability to ponder one's own existence? self awareness? ability to manipulate the world around them? ability to add 2+2?

side point: i say i'm smarter than you, thus i'll make up my own test and you'll be judged by it.

either you get the point or you don't.

The animal kingdom is vast with diversity, yet only one species has evolved from its earliest forms (fish, amoebas if you'd like to go further) to our present state.
what? by "our present state" you're referring to this special lucky state you think we attained, i take it? is the implication, then that - in a world based on evolution being true - all animals would ultimately end up at the intelligent state we are at now? please tell me that's not where you're going with that.
How could one species change so rapidly yet others not keep up?
this question highlights your ignorance on the topic. rate of evolution is not linear even within the same species, let alone across a range of species, and especially not over time. it's not a race and there is no linear string of development or adapations. there is no "goal" and we are certainly not the pinnacle of life. our state as the intelligent, self-aware organisms we are arose out of defined process of evolution whereby traits indicating intelligence were selected for by our environment.

Why is it then that humans can, through physical and mental capacity, adapt to 99% of all environments on this planet yet all others cannot?
once again, you're highlighting ignorance. we do not actively ADAPT to different environments. we use tools and cognitive ability to create circumstances and manipulate our surroundings which allows us to survive in extreme environments. just as for example primates and birds (Tool Use in Birds) use tools to succeed in their environments.

this question shows a clear misunderstanding of even just the word adaption, which is a very fundamental part of evolution. if you're unable to see the difference between what real adaption is and what you proposed - and why it's so fucking wrong - i'm not really sure what to say. This is basic level shit.

Why have we been given the ability
emphasis mine. this should go without saying but your true intentions show through with this question. you've already decided what *is* and the answers i may or may not continue to provide will not affect that judgement. nevermind that you or the rest of those who believe we've been "given" anything have yet to put forth valid science-based arguments in favor of their ideas. rather it's been baseless proposals thrown in with elementary questions about evolution which they're hoping will reveal an A HA moment exposing the massive holes in evolution.

do yourself a favor and watch the video above.

yet every other species on earth is severely behind?
once again, you're failing to draw the distinction between abstract human ideas of "better" or "smarter" and fit or unfit. every other species on this planet is FIT for its respective environment or it will die or adaption and speciation will take place. there is no "ahead" or "behind".
 
Raisins_Face.jpg
 
WF wins again for roping me in.

i'm out for real this time. it's amazing to me that the uneducated will attempt to espouse opinions on a topic they know quite literally nothing about. i said it earlier and i'll say it again, i can appreciate and respect a skeptic as long as their arguments are based on real science. but this nonsense...oy

for the love of allah, read up people Understanding Evolution